score! but i need help

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greaserkid

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well, my birthday is commin up & my parents asked me what i want, and i said a junkyard 360 (yeah, you guys convinced me), and they said okay.

so then i started thinkin about all the stuff I'm gonna do to it, and thought "hey, why not pull off the heads & stick them on the 318 so i can get that 400 horse while i'm building up the 360?"

Which brings me here, i have no idea what year of 360 to ask for, or what kinda work i'm gonna have to do on it to reach that goal, or if the lifters & stuff on the 318 heads are gonna be compatable or anything. Plus, i've never ported heads before, and have heard numerous horror stories.

So what all am i gonna need to do? Also, what year should i get & are my lifters & such compatable? Here's the parts list i got when i got the car, the guy was building it up to this article in hot rod magazine;

sbm ignition package
sbm v/c package
comp fuel filter
mstr. kit w/ pistons
true roller timing
high volume oil pan
headman headers
edelbrock rpm intake
carter afb comp series 4-barrel carb
comp cams xtreme energy 268


thanks guys
 
I don't think that will get you 400 horses from a 360 or 318. Not at the wheels for sure. If your plan is a 360 then stick to your plan. You can live with the 318 for a bit longer. Can't tell you what 360 to get, I'm an old chevy guy and new to this Mopar stuff.

#1 rule....form a plan and stick to it. You will save a bunch of cash that way. If your end goal is to run in the 12s then only get parts that will put you there.
 
no i meant at the flywheel, and on the 318

the 360 is gonna have pretty much everything replaced on it, i'm just wanting something faster than what i got till i get it built up
 
I have your "Junkyard" 360.
It's a '71 with 63,000 original miles, but needs bored .030 over.
It's even pulled and ready to deliver. lol

Mark.
 
what year of 360
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Looks like Mark has you covered there. Earlier the better. They have thicker walls. Based of the 340 castings. Otherwise, any 360 will do. A lower mileage engine is best. Keep the boreing down to nil if possible. Thicker cyl/ walls means stronger cyl. walls equals less flexing and better sealing for more power.
Theres no real gain in a .030 overbore.
sbm ignition package
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The distrib is good. The ignition is not up to par. (Orange box) Step up to the chrome box or a MSD or Mallory.
sbm v/c package
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Valve covers?
high volume oil pan
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You mean pump? No need. Larger oil pan? Watch the depth. They can hit the street.
headman headers
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I hate the 3 tube under the front steering package. They almost allways get flattened from the pavement. Watch where you drive.
edelbrock rpm intake,carter afb comp series 4-barrel carb,comp cams xtreme energy 268
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All a good combo. But the "Carter" carb could be hard to find. I prefur the Carters over the Edelbrocks copys. I also like the AVS more. Non-the less, make it a 750.
With this combo, you'll need to port the heads a bit. If you have not done it before, this is a great area to spend the money for a pro to do the work. Pratice porting on some junkyard heads. Ones you won't use.
 
Oh, on the 318, I would not waste the time and energy with it since it's just spending money on the true goal at hand.
It is truly not a case of if you can make 400 with the 318.
The only thing I would do to the current in car engine ( 318 ) would be header and full exhaust since theres no diff. in swaping in the 360 later. There will be no problems. It all bolts in perfectly.
Ignition. Again, can be carried over to the 360.
Everything else should be stored and assembled new, unused on the 360 for max impact in everyway. Including a max smile on your face.
Take it from me, the been there done that for 21 years of tinkering.
You'll thank me later.

Oh, also, I think your on track fine for 400+ HP at the flywheel.
 
do ignitions really help all that much?

also, this is just stuff i have on the 318 that i listed

about the porting...don't they make templates? I'm gonna go with edelbrock (probably) heads on the 360 or 340 (whichever i get) so i was just gonna port the exhaust on the stock 360 heads & bolt em on

would there be any advantage to getting a 340 instead of a 360? i know the bore is about .04 bigger but, from the way you guys are talking, that's not a big deal
 
If it were me, I wouldnt touch the 318, other than adding the parts that will interchange with the 360 later..Like the intkae, carb, headers, and ignition. Ignition is VERY important..Remember I said you eally need to read up on things..This is what I'm talking about. The 360 is the better choice..The longer stroke is worth much more on a street car than the .04" of pistons size. Plus, the 360 doesnt demand the same money. I'd grab Mark's engine, and give it to a reputable shop. You can and will do more damage than good if you just jump in with a grinder and go to town. Oh, and there are no templates for Edelbrock heads..Only good for factory iron heads.
 
i meant for factory ones

i'm talking about taking the stock heads off the 360, since i won't be using them, porting the exhaust, and putting them on the 318, so i can push about 400 horse till i get the 360 built up to the 600 neighborhood
 
I missed this post before I read your other post.

Headmans are a non issue if you set up your suspension correctly, read RIDE HEIGHT and good shocks with new torsion bars. I run headman headers on my 73 Dart and the only way you would smash them was if you were out pretending to be the "Duke Boys".

Changing the heads will only do you good if your talking the new magnum style heads with the swirl port technology. You can bolt them to an LA block but you need the intake to go with them and you must use the magnum head bolts. I don't truly think they will give you the 400 horse your loking for but if your picking up a newer 360 for doing a stroker anyway, they'd be cheap (free so to speak) and a performance boost and you won't need to port them.

As to porting heads for your "real" motor, leave it to the pro's who have a flow bench. If you ain't benching them and don't know what your doing, at best you'll get mediocre improvement, at worst you'll waste a LOT of time ruining other wise good heads.

Ignition is CRITICAL in true high po engines.

Advantage to a 340, NO, not in your situation. All things equal they are more expensive due to rarity and popularity.

Just some of my opinions on your subject. Good luck.
 
I'll say agin. Dont waste your time. I'm also curious..why the 400 hp level? A properly set up A body will run in the 13s with a bit less. that's faster than most mustangs (unmodified) and way faster than Naturally aspirated imports. I think you'd be better served if you just give an ET you want to run, and where you need to be able to run it.
 
well my goal with the 318 is 13's, with the 360 it'll be like high 11's

i figured if i bolted on 360 heads, got some new rear tires & a posi track, 13's wouldn't be a problem

but in every tech article i've read about 360 heads on a 318, the intake was fine, but the exhaust was too small

so the plan was to get a template from mopar performance & just port the exhaust to that size, it doesn't seem like there's too much room for error that way

and okay, after i buy a new tranny, rear end, and get the 360, i'll buy a new ignition
 
I would suggest finding bettter articles..lol. (jk..at least you're reading) There is soem truth to that. but..there's always a few "buts". First, the chamber size for a 318 2bbl is slightly smaller. In terms of compression, going to the larger 360 heads, drops your static compression down from it's current lower-than-what-the-piston-specs-are ratio. This doesnt seem like much, but any compression given away is a big deal. The intake ports are larger than the 318 2bbl. That's a good thing..318s dont seem to mind that, except it moves the "peaks" higher in the power band, for any given engine. The peaks are not just how much the engine makes, but more important, what kind of power and when. Torque is what will get you the ETs you want. Horsepower will give you mph, but not necessarily a lower ET. The time (rpm) that peak torque is made is crutial for proper gearing and convertor choice. So, by simply bolting on these heads, you have lost .5 point or so of static compression, and moved the peak numbers higher in their respective bands..That's with no other changes. Both are bad news for a street car. There are ways to deal with these little things..You can either mill the heads (make the chambers smaller) or use a thinner head gasket. But, in oreder to get that much compression back in a small bore engine, you must mill a ton, AND use the thin gasket. That's cool, now you're back to 8-8.5:1. But, the intake bolts wont go in...because when you mill the head or block, you have to mill the intake surfaces of the heads too, or the intake itself. You can't take off more than about .030" from the intake flange, because it's also the valve cover sealing surface, and you need a little iron left there. So, you now mill the intake itself. Now they all fit together properly (and no, ovalling the holes does NOT qualify as a proper fit...) So, you have $200 in milling, and another $100 in gaskets, goop, and shims..Oh, forgot that..When you mill the heads a lot, the pushrods "effective length" changes. They act longer when it's all put together. So, you need some shims on the rocker shafts to get the lifters to be preloaded right..Or, the new cam gets destroyed quick. You did say you're getting a new cam, yes? The 4bbl heads need a good cam to work, and you can add cylinder pressure by adding an up-to-date grind. so add the cam and timing set. So, you're up to $$600 or so.. and it's all back together. I'll put $$ that if you just swapped in the cam, and used a 4bbl intake, carb, and headers, you couldnt tell the difference. And, the engine's already done. Just add cam, and the matched valve springs, and you can do it in your driveway, in a weekend. You'll need a convertor with the cam, and the rear has to be changed. I would do this. Ask you parents for a 3.91 8 3/4 rear assembly. Used they are close to a good running core engine, and you can bolt it in and get immediate results. grab an MP convertor from Mancini for $200, and stick that in there too. You'll be into the 13s on radials. The ignition you already have is fine, just needs some cure attention. If you take this seriously, post about the right curve..Which, BTW, you can do on the 318 2bbl and get some good power from. Ignition is more important than tires.
 
wow, i think my head almost exploded

i have a cam, carb, intake, roller rockers, and a couple other things

so i suppose i should just get a new rear end, tranny, ignition, weels (i got some 9" tires waiting for wheels) and a posi track
 
greaserkid said:
wow, i think my head almost exploded

i have a cam, carb, intake, roller rockers, and a couple other things

so i suppose i should just get a new rear end, tranny, ignition, weels (i got some 9" tires waiting for wheels) and a posi track
Click to expand...


lol....I thought you liked and wanted tech info...lol. Plenty more where that came from. lets put it this way...There are those that can spend and go fast well; there are those that can not spend and still go fast, but not well; there are those who spend a lot and never seem to go fast, or go well; and there are those who spend a medium amount carefully, and run fast, reliably. Which catagory do you fall into? I'm one of those last ones, because I dont have the fundage to toss at cars. The difference in most of those types isnt money, it's information, and how it's used.
 
Good info from all here. My point...Greaserkid, I hope all if any passengers Hold On Tight!! and remember "The Strips the place to be"
 
You might be able to get 400 hp out of a 318 if you used N02. But the head issue is not going to make up that much horse.
 
i do like tech info, just...so much at once, it was crazy, i'm used to having to piece together info

right now, i can't spend much, and can't go all that fast, cuz i'm really new into things, i just got my car street legal not too long ago, so i have close to zero expirience racing, except doin some shifting on my 88 chevy celebrity, heh
 
I agree with Moper, get the 3.91 Posi. It will really wake that little 318 up.
When I was in high school I used to have a slightly warmed over 318 in a Duster with 3.91's, it was alot of fun to drive around town. ;)
Also find out where the swap meets are at in your area, especially the mopar ones, it's the best way to get some good deals on parts for alot less.
Good Luck with it.
 
Also, stop being so obsessed on a 400hp 318 engine. Better off doing the 360 and...er..wait, broken record here.
I ain't sayin it again. Go, knock your self out.
 
greaserkid said:
hah, it's not an obsession,
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Ha ha ha, thats what I keep telling myself. My wife saez I'm infected.
Well, what ever the path, enjoy.
 
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