Somethings the site does that I don't agree

[Oldmanmopar]

The issue I had was not only the drip rail molding but the absence of the right side exhaust bracket behind the muffler on the body.

When I ask for a picture he said it did not have the bracket behind the muffler. I stated all 340 cars came with factory dual exhaust and the bracket. That is not optional on a 340 swinger. He clearly said the car did not have the bracket.

That is when I told the person that I would look at the ad to stay away from it. Maybe the moderator would put that post back up? Not a chance!

 

[junkyardhero]

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yeah, but matching numbers to WHAT?

many, in fact most people don't delve into the granular detail that we (as a collective) do and when topped with the hyperbole of auction house nonsense you wind up with people using these terms that we consider defined to a specific set of parameters in a totally different way.

so "matching numbers" could be anything such as: it matches the year, it matches a dart, the engine and transmission match each other.

magazines and auction houses constantly get the details wrong and anybody that's been around for half a minute and looking to spend this kinda loot would and should absolutely know this already.

but to loop this back: the OP made no such claim in his copy, nor did the CC article.

 

[RustyRatRod]

This type of perspective is EXACTLY what the fraud artist hope the buyer has when they rebody cars. @Oldmanmopar has a good point here. I have seen rebody cars on this site for sale in the past. There was a triple green 70 340 swinger on here, the seller even mentioned in a earlier thread, he simply swapped the VIN tag onto a better /6 body. Then sold it as a "matching numbers" car. 100% fraud, and a felony

I agree. I think he does too. Just ONE of those things he mentioned? I don't know. But he mentioned TWO different things. And to me, the exhaust bracket is kinda an end all be all. That's the kinda thing that'd really make me LOOK a LOT closer. Or walk away.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

My son and I took Dennis Berk from Berks Dodge dealership to look at a bronze 70 340 swinger in up state NY. Same deal no drip rail trim. He swore it was a original car. It was a long drive and the car was priced High . It had the exhaust hanger but I could not see the tip of the phillips screw sticking through.

I asked if he could remove the back seat to see the fasteners. He said they were replaced with new bolts but still removed the seat. I did not tell him there was and inner bracket suppose to be there. When he got the seat out the inner bracket was not there . Still giving him the benefit of the doubt because the studs could have broke I looked for the screw hole. There was not one ever installed, telling me it never had the bracket from new.

It had the rad support number and matching Dara plate. So we were confused and they said they painted the car the original color. Then Steve noticed the original light blue paint on the pinch weld under the door where it was chipped from a jack, We walked away . The car was cloned perfect including the rally dash . He said his brother built the car so he didn't know. what was done. His brother was not there. He felt 3 inches tall.

So that is the main thing i look for on 340 cars. They don't remake that bracket and if you find one used to install they usually never save the inner part. That inner piece is always held on with a phillips screw from the inside so it only takes one person to install it at the manufacture. That screw hole must be present on factory 340 cars.

Oh one other thing is all the 340 cars I stripped over the years most of the holes were not drilled they were punched through and jagged. Some cars it was really hard to get the inner part out from the studs being stuck on the sheet metal from the outer piece squashing the burrs over the studs

Sorry if I stirred up a hornets nest . I just think if your building one and or selling one be honest of what it is. honesty is the most important part of the site. If it never had an original bracket its not a original 340 car.

A Vin. with matching . Rad support ,Data plate. engine and broadcast sheet does not confirm the body came with those added parts. You must inspect the car closely. There are many wanna-be's selling right now for big dollars . Its usually the cheaper basket cases that are real.

 

[Desoto291hemi]

My son and I took Dennis Berk from Berks Dodge dealership to look at a bronze 70 340 swinger in up state NY. Same deal no drip rail trim. He swore it was a original car. It was a long drive and the car was priced High . It had the exhaust hanger but I could not see the tip of the phillips screw sticking through.

I asked if he could remove the back seat to see the fasteners. He said they were replaced with new bolts but still removed the seat. I did not tell him there was and inner bracket suppose to be there. When he got the seat out the inner bracket was not there . Still giving him the benefit of the doubt because the studs could have broke I looked for the screw hole. There was not one ever installed, telling me it never had the bracket from new.

It had the rad support number and matching Dara plate. So we were confused and they said they painted the car the original color. Then Steve noticed the original light blue paint on the pinch weld under the door where it was chipped from a jack, We walked away . The car was cloned perfect including the rally dash . He said his brother built the car so he didn't know. what was done. His brother was not there. He felt 3 inches tall.

So that is the main thing i look for on 340 cars. They don't remake that bracket and if you find one used to install they usually never save the inner part. That inner piece is always held on with a phillips screw from the inside so it only takes one person to install it at the manufacture. That screw hole must be present on factory 340 cars.

Oh one other thing is all the 340 cars I stripped over the years most of the holes were not drilled they were punched through and jagged. Some cars it was really hard to get the inner part out from the studs being stuck on the sheet metal from the outer piece squashing the burrs over the studs

Sorry if I stirred up a hornets nest . I just think if your building one and or selling one be honest of what it is. honesty is the most important part of the site. If it never had an original bracket its not a original 340 car.

A Vin. with matching . Rad support ,Data plate. engine and broadcast sheet does not confirm the body came with those added parts. You must inspect the car closely. There are many wanna-be's selling right now for big dollars . Its usually the cheaper basket cases that are real.

I’m with you OMM ,

There is a big difference between an original and a clone .

However,,a clone should still keep the original VIN from the original chassis .
Swapping VIN and other stamped panels is what car thieves did many years ago .
Swapping numbers is fraud,,,plain and simple .
And a felonious act,,,and should be reported immediately .

Sorry,,but ,if your a thief you should go to jail !

Tommy

 

[crackedback]

So funny... 69 and 70 340 swingers didn't get the drip rail unless you paid for it as an option. Someone said ALL 340 cars with it. Not true. Same ole song and dance around the issue instead of, Yep I was mistaken.
I have 2 swinger 340's here with the sheets, no M21 on either car. By gawd I aint never learnt nothing from that guy in Cali... LOL Says a bunch about people when they can't admit they are wrong.

Just because the bracket isn't present doesn't mean the car isn't a 340 car. The car looks to have been restored. Hey, I don't have the bracket deal that fills those holes, using tti mounts. Zap zap zap... filled in...
Must infuriate the paint dab crowd.

Should you look at the car with a discerning eye if it is missing that bracket, sure. Due dilligence. To dismiss based on that and the drip rail molding that wasn't standard equipment. not a chance.

 

[fishmens67]

and here I thought it was a Hemi, nothing to see here folks it's just a 340 Dart.

 

[OneOfMany]

Hey, I don't have the bracket deal that fills those holes, using tti mounts. Zap zap zap... filled in...

Since I have no idea on the moulding, I could not comment one way or another on that.

The lack of exhaust bracket is a concern. This car was restored in the mid 80s, so I am less believing that it was removed for someone to use on another car. Especially since this one was a great candidate for the magazine to do up.

 

[Mtrhead]

I'm going to have to make a trip to the backyard tomorrow to inspect an original petty blue 340 Duster for this elusive exhaust bracket ..hmmmmm better be there....this car 72 duster came with rocker moulding, belt line moulding, etc..called decor package..rare

 

[jeff alder]

This type of perspective is EXACTLY what the fraud artist hope the buyer has when they rebody cars. @Oldmanmopar has a good point here. I have seen rebody cars on this site for sale in the past. There was a triple green 70 340 swinger on here, the seller even mentioned in a earlier thread, he simply swapped the VIN tag onto a better /6 body. Then sold it as a "matching numbers" car. 100% fraud, and a felony

Whatever he doesnt even know the difference between the part number of a 4 speed carb and an automatic carb! Not to mention he tries to bid over part ads that were already answered before him. Talk about unethical. Thats the pot calling the kettle black. I dont condone false advertising no one would but a spade is a spade and I made that clear in my post. If the buyer doesnt do their homework they only have themselves to blame. I never supported a fraudulent ad nor would I. Dont misconstrue a one paragraph response totally substantiated by fact with Inuendo.

 

[jeff alder]

If you post something on this site that is clearly advertised wrong . The post that makes members aware of the description mistake should be left there for all members to see and make there own decision. At least let members weigh the facts brought to light. Now if someone buys that car from this site ad and finds later the the car is a clone how trustworthy is the sites reputation.

The site is a forum that certainly does not promote false advertising. @toolmanmike is a perfect example of a moderator that jumps in to stop fraud. The seller is responsible for the fraudulent ad not the forum. If the buyer doesnt do their homework it's on them. Is it OK hell no. Can you respond or comment on a classified ad in a newspaper, or auto trader? Of course not. Do your homework or suffer the consequences. None of the honest members on the site would condone this behavior. There is no Mopar God that knows everything about these cars. Only a great lady. MA MOPAR!

 

[Oldmanmopar]

So funny... 69 and 70 340 swingers didn't get the drip rail unless you paid for it as an option. Someone said ALL 340 cars with it. Not true. Same ole song and dance around the issue instead of, Yep I was mistaken.
I have 2 swinger 340's here with the sheets, no M25 on either car. By gawd I aint never learnt nothing from that guy in Cali... LOL Says a bunch about people when they can't admit they are wrong.

Just because the bracket isn't present doesn't mean the car isn't a 340 car. The car looks to have been restored. Hey, I don't have the bracket deal that fills those holes, using tti mounts. Zap zap zap... filled in...
Must infuriate the paint dab crowd.

Should you look at the car with a discerning eye if it is missing that bracket, sure. Due dilligence. To dismiss based on that and the drip rail molding that wasn't standard equipment. not a chance.

The drip rail molding was my first question I never saw a 340 car without it in my years.

But no right side exhaust bracket was the next question? No bracket was his answer. Even if there was no bracket due to it being removed then there should be the holes where it was located. They would have had to deal with them. Like I said I have seen the cars where the bracket was added but they forgot the phillips screw.

The PO could answer this question right now if he is worried about the sale of this car. Just show a picture of the inside and outside of the area which I asked for? he didn't. He just said there is no bracket.

The holes or the repair to close them would be there. finding that original bracket will be pretty hard without a want ad. I have seen many cars with dual exhaust added after the fact of being a single exhaust car, And the hanger was bolted directly to the floor. Always look for the bracket or signs of it being removed. And if it has the bracket look for the phillips screw or the hole for it. The inner was always screwed fast

Someone go on his thread and asked for a picture of both inner and outer bracket. Like I said when I asked he said there was none. It was just a question to show the area looking for the painted corner to see if it was added because it didn't look real. And I confirmed he was willing to take pictures at request. Asking that question first and getting the pictures led to then the main question. No bracket No picture Red light comes on. If there is no clear evidence of the bracket or the screw if the bracket was added its not real. And I don't care who built the car if its not real I'm sorry its not worth half of his asking price. Even if Elvis owned it.

That is the main reason why I told my friend to stay away, It had no exhaust bracket. I didn't use the missing trim for the main reason. I have put the painted corners on many Valiant signet race cars. I just sold a set to Reagle Dodge for their race car. They remove and ruined the chrome trim. I have them elbowed and straight from sport roofs. Saved them off cars for years. Never pulled any off 340 cars. and I stripped more then a handful in my days.

Just so there is no question about whether the statement was correct regarding sill molding, here is the page from the 69 Dart Databook

Solid color cars, only car that M25 sill molding was std was a GTS. All others were optional and this carried over into 1970 for the 340 Swinger as well.
Vinyl top cars got sill molding, only because of the top. Otherwise a 340 swinger is a no go as std equipment.

Sill molding is not the drip rail as you state. It is the trim under the door on the rocker panel.

An M25 sill molding is a vintage Mopar option code indicating the presence of wide sill moldings on a vehicle. The code M25 would appear on the fender tag of classic Dodge and Plymouth models, confirming that the vehicle was equipped with this specific trim package from the factory.
What is a sill molding?

• A sill molding, also known as a rocker molding, is a protective and decorative trim piece that is installed along the bottom edge of a car's doors.
• It protects the body panels from scuffs, scratches, and road debris.
• On classic Mopar muscle cars, these moldings were typically made of metal or chrome and were designed as a distinctive styling element.

What the "M25" code means

• While a standard Mopar car would have thin or no sill moldings, the M25 option code specified a "wide" version.
• The "wide" design offered a more pronounced and aggressive styling look, common on performance-oriented models of the era, such as the 1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

If it's worded as a question. I learned that early on.
If it's an opinion or a comment no.

I asked questions he clearly answered with pictures on the first question. But didn't not include pictures of the second question. Just it has no Hanger was his answer.

Now I could see your car being delivered to you without the wood grain. But how would a Dual exhaust car come without a hanger. with the muffler dragging the ground come to the dealer. It would have been taken to FLEX or Changeover to wait for the bracket. So stop making excuses for your action.

One thing I don't think you know is I worked for the UAW on the assembly line as a painter .

 

[One Bullet Barney]

I asked questions he clearly answered with pictures on the first question. But didn't not include pictures of the second question. Just it has no Hanger was his answer.

Now I could see your car being delivered to you without the wood grain. But how would a Dual exhaust car come without a hanger. with the muffler dragging the ground come to the dealer. It would have been taken to FLEX or Changeover to wait for the bracket. So stop making excuses for your action.

One thing I don't think you know is I worked for the UAW on the assembly line as a painter .

It was missing more then just the woodgrain. It was missing the Guage package which included the tach. I guess you missed that.
I thought you said you were leaving the site . After your gold membership ran out.
Actually he did answer the question about the hanger.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Here is a very good example of an 75 year old guy that wanted a mopar.

He bought this car on line advertised at a pushed across the block at a popular auction site as a . What was advertised> "1972 original lime green paint Hemi Challenger". This guy knew nothing about Mopars. It sold for $38,000 and was delivered. It did not run the drivers window was not in the car. !t had a 2003 5.7 hemi mounted crooked. 65 727 trans , bent K-member and dented frame . The interior is spray painted white. with a dash cap. and no brakes at all. After the Dodge dealer and I fixed the car so he could drive it he died the next month and only drove the car once .

His wife just had us bring it back 2 days ago to put it on the lift for a buyer to look at, They now have close to $20 K in the car, plus the $38,000 complete front suspension new . reman trans, all new brakes and lines , Aeroquip fuel tank. all new Braided lines. springs ,340 bars and a rear 8 3/4 The car was a mess . If only someone would have pointed it out at the auction .

So whether this dart states its a 340 car or not it clearly doesn't say it isn't. The pictures and the info makes you believe it is. Just like this Challenger. Now Mopar guys would know this Challenger is not real. But not everyone is a mopar person they just want to belong to the crowd. Don't you all think we the people that know should make others aware of this fraud intentional or not.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

It was missing more then just the woodgrain. It was missing the Guage package which included the tach. I guess you missed that.
I thought you said you were leaving the site . After your gold membership ran out.
Actually he did answer the question about the hanger.

Looks like someone paid for it for me I didn't, maybe they will chime in. . Start a pole and see how many want me to leave right now or you?

 

[4spdragtop]

 

[One Bullet Barney]

Looks like someone paid for it for me I didn't, maybe they will chime in. . Start a pole and see how many want me to leave right now or you?

I told you your membership wouldn't run out.
We need you around.

 

[barbee6043]

All I know is that some people are honest and ignorant and other people are knowledable and crooks.
Us old timers in the hobby understand what can bite a guy in the a**. I also understand why the FABO site says NO comments in the sale threads. But sometimes some conversation there can save a guy a lot of heartache. Damn if you do and damn if you don't. If a person catches a mistake in the ad, and sends that guy a personal message and he does not correct it all... maybe he did not see the private message, maybe he just wants the car sold...period, regardless...not right!.

A few weeks ago I bought a roller, a Ford 302 Maverick, I wanted it. Solid and cheap. Why? The seller bought it for a parts car for his wifes project. In a previous life, someone had swapped out the dash and thus a wrong vin. I know every state is different, but here in Tx. I can take it to the DPS office ( bear) and he will stamp a Tx. vin on the B pillow and give me a title. This makes it legal. Is it worth more if this was not the case? Probably. But it will be only a $7-8000 car when I am done anyway. But I will be legal if and when it sells.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I told you your membership wouldn't run out.
We need you around.

Got me ! didn't recognize you, . I'll remember now Thanks Steve.

 

[crackedback]

Ha... My mistake on the code. It's M21 The two 340 cars here don't have the M21 trim or code on broadcast.

Still doesn't change the fact that you had to pay for it as an option in a trim group A46 on a swinger to get it. M21 was not std and didn't come on all 340 cars.

You can fix the bracket holes in that panel where you would never know it had been repaired after paint. It's not that hard.

The guy selling the car is telling the truth and relaying info to the best of his knowledge about the car now. The car didn't have the bracket now, he wasn't likely involved in any form regarding the paint/body work.

Carry on!

 

[barbee6043]

I used to be a big number cruncher decades ago, now it only makes my head hurt!!!!!!!!!!!
50-60 years after they were built, and passed thru so many hands and have been "restored" to some degrees, no telling what might be what!!!
and we still get guys that see 36,855 on the speedo that turns over at 99,999 and they say that is the correct mileage!
etc etc

 

[Oldiron440]

This site does do something I haven’t seen on other sites before and that is remove posts from threads at the original poster request. If he doesn’t like the comments he can have them deleted and I think that’s crazy. Seems like some of you guys that start threads are putting on your little
dainty panties in the morning.

 

[harrisonm]

About 40 years ago, I was into Corvettes. People were always taking about how their car was matching numbers. It was pretty easy to file the small pad in front of the right (if I remember right) head and restamp the numbers. Then all you had to do was find and buy date correct proper parts with the right numbers. I used to ask people if their car was original, and they would say, "It is matching numbers." I would say that that was not what I asked. Then I'd ask if the engine, transmission and all assorted parts were the original parts it came with from the factory. They would repeat "It's matching numbers." 63-67 Corvettes were very easy to clone into a correct looking matching number car.

 

[Dartnut]

I have learned a lot from this thread.
Some good, some bad, and some ugly...
Now, I had a '69 340 4 speed Swinger years ago that I bought as a mostly stripped shell and it wasn't a vinyl top car.
It didn't appear to have the chrome drip rail moldings from new according to the paint which was original to the car, but it had the extra bracket in and out for the dual exhaust.
The car was not a clone, all of the past owners were all documented since it was a local car.
The car was parted out in the early '80s by the P/O to make a quick buck and I ended up with the remains including the dash with the V.I.N. and the fender tag which matched the body numbers.
No broadcast sheet because the seats were long gone to who knows where!
I think that I paid 300 bucks for it.
I agree that the moldings were optional as proven on the post that showed that they were optional, not standard equipment.
The car is now being restored and is almost done by a friend of mine.
I'll ask him because he is more of a wealth of knowledge on the details of these cars than I am and 340 cars over the years in general.
He has now and has had many over the years...