Strokers run warmer???

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swinger340

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Will be putting 416 in my car pretty soon. Im now wondering if cooling system should be upgraded as well. Have HV water pump and a newer 3 core 22" radiator that has kept my 340s cool but Im wondering if strokers have a tendency to run warmer. Longer stroke, more friction would make sense if they run a little warmer.
 
They do run warmer due to the higher compression and/or extended volume, but I would still think a 22" 3 row core should do it anyway.
 
My fish had some kind of tall but thin copper radiator in it when it had the 340. After I put in the 416 it ran just as cool with no other changes. That is at cruise power. Stomping on the gas going down the track warmed it up pretty quickly but just driving around I could turn off the elec fan and it would stay at the same 180 degrees.

So based on that you are probably gonna be just fine.
 
Aluminum heads or thinned cylinder walls may add some heat but the heat should be producing power - not going into the jackets. You should not need any more than you have IMO.
 
My 410 c.i stroker has alumi heads/intake with a 2 core stock rad.I also had a clutch fan and had to wait quite a while at the track to get it to heat up to operating temp.I,ve since gone to an electric fan/waterpump drive so I can control it better.Its always ran cool since being built.
 
I will give her a whirl with what I got. 3 diff. 340s within 2 yrs that always ran 175-180* one was aluminum headed. One of these days ill be satisfied w my combo and stop swapping the damn things out (maybe)
 
If you use Evans coolant, you'll never have to worry about it.
 
I noticed my new 408 ran a little hotter than the old 360, but the old 360 was loose as a goose so it didn't make much frictional heat. I have a 2 core 26" radiator (universal Summit aluminum) and hv pump in mine and it keeps the 408 cool. Have even taken it out on a 90 degree day and it didn't go over 200
 
A stroker is going to run a little hotter due to increased piston speed. The piston has farther to go. It has to be at the top or bottom of the stroke at the same time its natural counterpart does travelling a shorter distance at the same rpm.
 
Yes. Aluminum conducts heat much better so it pulls more from the chambers and transfers it to the coolant.

Horse manure. If you took an all iron engine, what you are saying is the iron WOULD NOT BE ABLE to transfer heat into the coolant. What this implies is that the IRON engine would run hotter, because it would not be able to reject the heat.

What are you going to claim next, that the iron radiates it's heat into the air?

If the aluminum rejects more heat into the coolant, all this means is that the engine is going to run COOLER because it is getting rid of more heat that "was" in the engine. If it actually runs hotter, this is because the cooling system is too small.

Aluminum does not produce heat. What goes on in the combustion chambers does.

I'm no expert on theoretical thermodynamics, but I did spend not quite 15 years in the HVAC / R repair / maintenance field.
 
I would think that a stroker would run hotter, IE puts a heavier load on your collant system, because you are burning more fuel in the same area, at the same RPM.

more boom more heat.
as for the iron / aluminum thing, I wouyld think that aluminum would heat up faster and cool down faster than iron.
 
Subscribed.

My Dart has a big C body radiator in it and with the old worn out 340 in it, it could barely reach 180. I was wondering was was going to happen when the 408 is finished.
 
If you use Evans coolant, you'll never have to worry about it.

How did you completely empty your cooling system before you installed the Evans waterless coolant? Did you see a big improvement in operating temperature (especially in traffic)? I would like to try this but I wasn't sure how to get all of the water out of my system. Thanks
 
Horse manure. If you took an all iron engine, what you are saying is the iron WOULD NOT BE ABLE to transfer heat into the coolant. What this implies is that the IRON engine would run hotter, because it would not be able to reject the heat.

What are you going to claim next, that the iron radiates it's heat into the air?

If the aluminum rejects more heat into the coolant, all this means is that the engine is going to run COOLER because it is getting rid of more heat that "was" in the engine. If it actually runs hotter, this is because the cooling system is too small.

Aluminum does not produce heat. What goes on in the combustion chambers does.

I'm no expert on theoretical thermodynamics, but I did spend not quite 15 years in the HVAC / R repair / maintenance field.


Let's see if I can word it better...
It's about cause and affect. Assuming the same head design and engine parameters - the heat in the chamber is the same between the two materials. The material of the head/chamber is a huge influence on the rate of conduction of heat from the chamber into the coolant. Iron is less of a conductor than aluminum. So while the heat in the chamber is the same the amount of heat the cooling system get's into it is greater for an aluminum head engine vs iron. This is assuming there are no coatings to further reduce the rate of conduction from the chamber. How that manifests itself is the radiator has to transfer more heat from the collant to the air. The cooling system has to deal with more of a load... i.e. it "runs hotter". Sorry if that was understood as me re-writing physics.
With all your years experience you don't fully grasp how materials affect operating temperatures and performance? Try replacing an aluminum condensor coil with an iron one and tell me how well they perform the same job.
 
Ok, a stroker with more volume will have the potential to make more heat (more volume = more power = more heat).

I thought that the thermostat controls the temperature of the engine. The same thermostat fits all v-8's from 273 to 440. As long as the cooling system can handle the amount of heat rejected from the engine, the thermostat sets the running temp. That should eliminate the engine as the determining factor if the same thermostat can control a stock 273 2 bbl and a 440 six pack...

The issue is, does the cooling system have the capacity to reject heat to keep up with the rate that the engine generates it. For those saying that they took out a worn out 360 and put in a new stroker and it ran hot, there are too many variables to just say it is the "stroker" that is causing the imbalance in heat transfer. The old worn out engine has reduced power due to being worn out, therefore, it is not making/rejecting as much heat as it did when it was new. If you took out that used 360 and put in a new identical 360, it may have also caused it to run hotter in that car than the old engine because the engine is new and efficient and can generate more heat than the old worn out one. In this case, the cooling system has deteriorated in its capacity and was able to keep up with the old engine, but now can't keep up with the new one. It's not from adding cubic inches, it's from going from an old worn out engine to a new efficient one.

Heat output of an engine is directly related to the horsepower. The more horsepower you make, the more heat you generate. As you make more horsepower, you have to increase the capacity of your cooling system.

As far as the heat generated from the friction due to the "extra stroke", it is very small compared to the heat generated during the combustion cycle. It's like trying to raise the water level of the ocean by pissing in it.... Too small to make a difference.
 
How did you completely empty your cooling system before you installed the Evans waterless coolant? Did you see a big improvement in operating temperature (especially in traffic)? I would like to try this but I wasn't sure how to get all of the water out of my system. Thanks

On each side of the block down near the pan rail you'll find block drain plugs. Pull those plugs (make sure and do both sides) and it'll drain 99% of the coolant out.
 
I have a 416 stroker, started as a 360 magnum. Temperature has always been a problem. Was running a large be cool aluminum radiator with duel electric fans and electric water pump down in Houston. Just changed this out to a mechanical water pump, see how it works.
 
Subscribed.

My Dart has a big C body radiator in it and with the old worn out 340 in it, it could barely reach 180. I was wondering was was going to happen when the 408 is finished.


You may be ok.


What many people overlook is that adding thickness to your radiator also increases the resistance to airflow.

When increasing the capacity of your radiator, you are best to add area before depth. Area does not restrict air flow like depth does. Max out your area first, then add depth as you need it.

Next, you need to look at the fan and shroud. The purpose of the shroud is to help the fan pull air through the radiator. You must keep the fan and shroud as tight of fit as possible for best efficiency. You should have enough clearance between the fan and shroud to accomodate engine vibration, but not too much radial clearance so the fan can pull the air better.

Next you look at FOOS (Not Chip Foose). It is an acronym for Fan Out Of Shroud. This is the amount of fore/aft overlap of the fan and shroud. The rule of thumb is 50% overlap of the fan and shroud. Meaning half of the fan is inside the shroud and half is outside. You can move it in and out a little, but if it is moved too much, it will also hurt the ability of the fan to pull the air through the radiator.

After that, you have to look and see how well "sealed" the radiator is. Are there any paths for air to go around the radiator and shroud? If there are, then try to seal them with foam or rubber. If the air is allowed to go around the radiator and not through it, it won't cool properly. Adding seals is more commonly found on new cars versus the older ones of our vintage.

Some people don't realize how important the shroud is. It is the most common overlooked/misunderstood part of the cooling system which has great effect on the performance. It helps keep the radiator running at maximum efficiency.

Also make sure that the water jackets in the block and head are clean and sludge/slag free and you have a good water pump.
 
On each side of the block down near the pan rail you'll find block drain plugs. Pull those plugs (make sure and do both sides) and it'll drain 99% of the coolant out.


Then pick up the car and shake it side to side to get the last 1 % out... LOL! :D
 
Let's see if I can word it better...
How that manifests itself is the radiator has to transfer more heat from the collant to the air. The cooling system has to deal with more of a load... i.e. it "runs hotter". Sorry if that was understood as me re-writing physics.


The "weakest link" in the system is the ability of the radiator to transfer the heat to the air. Air is not as efficient medium of taking away heat as liquid.

This can be proven when your car starts to overheat, and you leave the car running at idle and then use a garden hose to spray your radiator. It cools right down. That is because water (liquids) have a greater capacity to carry away heat than air/gas (not gasoline - solid/liquid/gas).

If you burn your hand/finger, do you sit there and blow on it to cool down the burn? No, you go to the sink and run it under cold water because it works faster.

So the problem is not the ability of the coolant to take the heat away from the cylinder, but the ability of the radiator to dissipate the heat into the air - especially when it gets above 90° and you are idling with minimal air going through the radiator because you are not moving to get the "ram air" through it.

 
^^ The above posted by is correct, but does not tell the whole story. Anyone who is good with electrics finds this is an easy analogy to the world of electricity. It is all a matter of thermal resistances (like electric resistance), heat flow (like current flow), and temps (like voltage) .
Excluding the heat out of the exhaust (which is actually a major exit path for combustion heat), the two paths for heat flow (like current flow) are: through the block and other engine surfaces directly into the air; and through the cooling system. These are like 2 parallel current paths with different resistances from different 'voltages' (temperatures). (The cylinder wall temps are different from the head interior temps and thus the analogy of the 2 different voltages.) The cooling system path has several thermal resistances in series and parallel; the block and head paths to the coolant are in parallel, and both combine and are in series with the coolant and radiator.
If the heads are AL with its roughly 4 times lower thermal resistance than iron, the internal head surface temp will be lower (unless there is a 4x increase in heat flow, which there is not). With a lower interior head surface temp, there will be more heat tranferred from the hot combustion gases into the head, so you don't get as much head temp drop as one might think. The net result will be higher heat flow through that path into the coolant and to the radiator along with lower internal head temps.

The thermal resistance of the radiator does not change if it is the same radiator, so the increased heat flow through the lower thermal resistance of the AL heads raises the radiator and coolant temps a bit; the actual increase in coolant temp is dependent on how much extra heat gets transferred to the AL heats from the hot combustion gases.

This HAS to happen if the interior surface of the AL heads to be cooler, which we know they are; this is evidenced by their better resistance to detonation. The rest of the engines surfaces may a bit hotter since the coolant temp is a bit higher.
What we have achieved with the AL heads is a cooler head interior surface, particularly on the raised or pointed spots on the head, where the detonation will tend to occur.

Oh yeah, I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

All in all, a very good discussion, especially about the radiator being the largest thermal resistance, and how to make it work better with shrouds, electric fans, etc.
 
How did you completely empty your cooling system before you installed the Evans waterless coolant? Did you see a big improvement in operating temperature (especially in traffic)? I would like to try this but I wasn't sure how to get all of the water out of my system. Thanks

You drain the entire system (engine, radiator, heater core) the best you can. I used water to flush the entire system first then I used compressed air to blow the heater core out first (by itself with hoses still attached to heater core but not hooked to engine. Next I did the same to the radiator same way as heater core but applied duck taper around the bottom to make smaller opening, rag up top opening cap on and tight. Last was engine taped off/blocked off all but water pump opening and blew air through heater hose connection. After that you use a product from Evans coolant that takes the rest of the water out of the system. When that is all done, I poured in Evans coolant and no more worries.
 
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