Suspension upgrades

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Sparky

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Hey guys, going to upgrade the Cuda suspension. Not sure where to start, or just how far and how much I need to put into it. Been looking at this. 1966-1972 Mopar A-Body TVS Suspension System, Dart, Duster, Valiant, Demon Too much?. Not looking to auto cross, just want good brakes and great handling. Hope to go to OD trans too. Have not searched this thread just yet. Looking for opinions and thoughts, especially if someone has already done this. Been going through all my old Mopar Muscle mags looking for a build I may be able to follow. Getting it done professionally. Will be swapping motors also and possibly looking for a good set of heads to put on a 340. Suggestions, realizing I have not given a lot of info on the motor.

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you have a formula S already, so you should have a sway bar... that's half the battle right there.

26 doubloons is a grip to flip if you're just looking for something that handles nicely. you could easily achieve that goal in half as much.

what else have you got going on suspension and brakes wise? I guessing it's all S, but a lot can change over the years.
 
Pretty much stock under there. I did put one of those rubber kits in 20 years ago. Going to bbp, disc brakes. I realize the link I posted is way too much, and I really do not know what to replace to achieve what I want. There is an Auburn pro series sure grip in it now. I have a set of TTI headers in a box. Air gap on the old motor and a 750 Holley waiting. I want it to stop better and handle more like a newer car. So, where do I throw the money. I do plan on putting better heads on the motor. Your suggestions on "easily achieving that goal with half as much" I admit I am no expert on the subject, so I am interested in suggestions. Any money I do not put into the suspension will go to the motor. Thank you for your help.
Sparky
you have a formula S already, so you should have a sway bar... that's half the battle right there.

26 doubloons is a grip to flip if you're just looking for something that handles nicely. you could easily achieve that goal in half as much.

what else have you got going on suspension and brakes wise? I guessing it's all S, but a lot can change over the years.
 
there are a lot of ways to get where you want to go. you can drop coin an aftermarket BBP disc brake set up or you can swap everything over to the 73~76 style or, you can use some of the parts from your original set up but you may run into some fitment issues-- namely caliper to sway bar logistics-- but it's all surmountable.

personally, for what you're trying to achieve I'd just swap everything over to the 73~76 style. it'll be cheaper, easier and it's kind of a known entity. get a bigger sway bar, bigger T-bars and some decent shocks and you're pretty well set from there. out back, I'd upgrade the bushings and add a small sway bar. if the springs are still good and don't exhibit sag, I'd run them. if they need replaced I'd go with something that the rate compliments the T-bars-- just not SS springs.

what kind of budget are you working with? do you want rear disc brakes? are you okay with manual brakes or do you want or need power brakes?

just remember, you don't *need* $1,500 disc brakes and you don't *need* 1" T-bars and tubular adjustable control arms to make these cars handle quite well. you can accomplish quite a bit if you decide what type of driving you want to do and build it out as a system rather than just throw parts at it wholesale.
 
The stock "S" suspension with modern shocks is pretty good to begin with. Bigger torsion bars and sway bar will do a lot to improve it. Decide exactly what you want and go from there.
 
Hey guys, going to upgrade the Cuda suspension. Not sure where to start, or just how far and how much I need to put into it. Been looking at this. 1966-1972 Mopar A-Body TVS Suspension System, Dart, Duster, Valiant, Demon Too much?. Not looking to auto cross, just want good brakes and great handling. Hope to go to OD trans too. Have not searched this thread just yet. Looking for opinions and thoughts, especially if someone has already done this. Been going through all my old Mopar Muscle mags looking for a build I may be able to follow. Getting it done professionally. Will be swapping motors also and possibly looking for a good set of heads to put on a 340. Suggestions, realizing I have not given a lot of info on the motor.

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What are your plans for wheels and tires? That's probably the most important factor for deciding what to do with the brakes and suspension. If you stay with 15" wheels that limits your brake rotor diameters and the tire choices that go with 15" wheels will probably reduce the amount of work you need to do to your suspension.

As for the TVS kit, I wouldn't say it's "too much". But it has stuff most cars don't need (like the heim jointed steering links). And it has other stuff you probably don't want on a street car (heims on the UCA's). And it's missing some really important stuff, like torsion bars and shocks.

For what you're describing I'd rather have QA1 UCA's, they have additional built in caster and they’re bushed. If you’re going big bolt pattern anyway then you’re swapping UCA’s or running adaptors anyway so I’d just go with the tubular uppers.

DoctorDiff has all the 73+ disk brake conversions, it’s a good way to go BBP and you still have OE style parts. You can go with 11.75” disks and still run 15” wheels.

PST sells 1.03” torsion bars and there’s a FABO discount. I wouldn’t run anything smaller than that anymore. Even the 1” bars I ran for a bit with 225/60/15’s on my Duster were pretty soft, lots of body roll still.

You can get LCA boxing plates and other nice goodies from @BergmanAutoCraft depending on what you want to do for the other suspension bushings.
 
there are a lot of ways to get where you want to go. you can drop coin an aftermarket BBP disc brake set up or you can swap everything over to the 73~76 style or, you can use some of the parts from your original set up but you may run into some fitment issues-- namely caliper to sway bar logistics-- but it's all surmountable.

personally, for what you're trying to achieve I'd just swap everything over to the 73~76 style. it'll be cheaper, easier and it's kind of a known entity. get a bigger sway bar, bigger T-bars and some decent shocks and you're pretty well set from there. out back, I'd upgrade the bushings and add a small sway bar. if the springs are still good and don't exhibit sag, I'd run them. if they need replaced I'd go with something that the rate compliments the T-bars-- just not SS springs.

what kind of budget are you working with? do you want rear disc brakes? are you okay with manual brakes or do you want or need power brakes?

just remember, you don't *need* $1,500 disc brakes and you don't *need* 1" T-bars and tubular adjustable control arms to make these cars handle quite well. you can accomplish quite a bit if you decide what type of driving you want to do and build it out as a system rather than just throw parts at it wholesale.
I have 20 to 25Gs to spend. That would include new heads for the engine, as well as other goodies like aluminum rad and electric fan. I realize I will not get the money back out, but that is not an issue, This car will stay in the family. I am not doing the work, having a shop work with me here locally. Sounds like if we rebuild the front end using better parts that are in there will probably do the trick. Discs upfront for sure, maybe rear too. No auto cross or any of that, just want a good handling and stopping car that is reliable. The replacement 340 has had some mods done and is ready to go, and will be swapping parts from the old motor to it. My air gap, carb, ignition etc.
Thanks
 
What are your plans for wheels and tires? That's probably the most important factor for deciding what to do with the brakes and suspension. If you stay with 15" wheels that limits your brake rotor diameters and the tire choices that go with 15" wheels will probably reduce the amount of work you need to do to your suspension.

As for the TVS kit, I wouldn't say it's "too much". But it has stuff most cars don't need (like the heim jointed steering links). And it has other stuff you probably don't want on a street car (heims on the UCA's). And it's missing some really important stuff, like torsion bars and shocks.

For what you're describing I'd rather have QA1 UCA's, they have additional built in caster and they’re bushed. If you’re going big bolt pattern anyway then you’re swapping UCA’s or running adaptors anyway so I’d just go with the tubular uppers.

DoctorDiff has all the 73+ disk brake conversions, it’s a good way to go BBP and you still have OE style parts. You can go with 11.75” disks and still run 15” wheels.

PST sells 1.03” torsion bars and there’s a FABO discount. I wouldn’t run anything smaller than that anymore. Even the 1” bars I ran for a bit with 225/60/15’s on my Duster were pretty soft, lots of body roll still.

You can get LCA boxing plates and other nice goodies from @BergmanAutoCraft depending on what you want to do for the other suspension bushings.
Great info, thanks. I am far from an expert on the subject, so I am learning here, bear with me. I will be going too BBP, but have not figured out a wheel brake combo just yet. As I stated in my other post, it sounds like if I go with the same set-up that is there, but upgrade the parts, I will get what I want. 14s sbp on there now, so I have options. I was under the impression I would have to swap all the front out with some modern kit. I will probably replace the leaf springs as well as shocks, basically make it brand new under there. Am I thinking clear now? Any other thoughts or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.f
 
I have 20 to 25Gs to spend. That would include new heads for the engine, as well as other goodies like aluminum rad and electric fan. I realize I will not get the money back out, but that is not an issue, This car will stay in the family. I am not doing the work, having a shop work with me here locally. Sounds like if we rebuild the front end using better parts that are in there will probably do the trick. Discs upfront for sure, maybe rear too. No auto cross or any of that, just want a good handling and stopping car that is reliable. The replacement 340 has had some mods done and is ready to go, and will be swapping parts from the old motor to it. My air gap, carb, ignition etc.
Thanks
Planning to put over drive in it also. Any suggestions? Looks like a 727 can be modified, or would it be better to go to a different trans? I have yet to investigate this option also. Thank you for all the help, guys.
 
As 72Blu laid out is the most cost effective way to go. Putting expensive lip stick on a pig does not make a princess.

I have FirmFeel’s setup on my 72 which is tube UCA’s, boxed LCA’s, heavy duty strut rods, greaseable LCA pivot pins, large sway bars and 1.03 T bars up front, with 73 up brakes, 73 up drag link and heavy duty tie rods with 20-1 manual steering. Out back SS springs, 1 inch lowering blocks, sway bar, pinion snubber, and bilstine RCD shocks all around. The FirmFeel stuff is all “stock style”. Currently my 340 is a square at 390 crank HP and 385 TQ, pushing through a 4 speed with gear vendor to 3.91 rear gears to some short *** Falken 225/55/16’s. This will be changing this winter, (3.73, 18 inch rims with 26 or so inch tires, cam / head swap, frame connectors, torque boxes, panhard bar, floor supports and frame gussets, hidden 10 point cage in planning stage) The car is to 100 in a hurry, handles the corners very well, is planted and very predicable in what it is going to do when your on it and sticks with the 200 tread ware Falkens. Stops well with the 73 up single puck brakes. I’ve built my car to be a corner carver and to do some auto X, maybe a track day here and there when I get some time.

So all that said, pick what you want out of your car, and ask questions to help point you in the direction of a finished driver( they are never finished)

As for the trans, both the 727 and 904 are very good and can be built to hold a bunch of HP. Build what ya have. People have used 46RH and 42RH aka 727 with over drive and 904 with over drive from 90’s rams and Dakotas. The RE’s trans are electric and need a controller to shift into 4th aka overdrive where the RH are still hydro controlled. Some tunnel work maybe necessary to fit.

And you can figure that about half the cost will be parts and the other half will be labor.
 
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as 72blu noted, wheels are going to be your single biggest deciding factor. from there, it's where and how you want to spend your money.

I'd KISS and just upgrade to 73~76, several companies sell the full kit now so all you'd have to do is track down a K-member. granted you could stay with the early style K, they make compatible sway bars now but it's better if it's all the same system. easier parts compatibility if you're not doing a full on custom build.

from there you could add better pieces like tubular uppers, the big brakes (they have drilled & slotted rotors avail), good shocks, better pads, bigger sway bar, greaseable pins and then knock it all together with good quality suspension wear items.

out back, I'd buy new BBP axles and throw some discs at it.

on the t-bars and springs I tend to err on a little bit of the lighter side. I think 920's or 990's are more than adequate for a spirited street driver.

100% I'd throw in some subframe connectors.

swapping out to an OD transmission is an undertaking involving a fair amount of floor surgery. that alone would take up a good bit of your budget.

all said though, I think with some smart planning and judicious purchasing you could get everything done-- including the motor stuff within your budget.
 
as 72blu noted, wheels are going to be your single biggest deciding factor. from there, it's where and how you want to spend your money.

I'd KISS and just upgrade to 73~76, several companies sell the full kit now so all you'd have to do is track down a K-member. granted you could stay with the early style K, they make compatible sway bars now but it's better if it's all the same system. easier parts compatibility if you're not doing a full on custom build.

from there you could add better pieces like tubular uppers, the big brakes (they have drilled & slotted rotors avail), good shocks, better pads, bigger sway bar, greaseable pins and then knock it all together with good quality suspension wear items.

out back, I'd buy new BBP axles and throw some discs at it.

on the t-bars and springs I tend to err on a little bit of the lighter side. I think 920's or 990's are more than adequate for a spirited street driver.

100% I'd throw in some subframe connectors.

swapping out to an OD transmission is an undertaking involving a fair amount of floor surgery. that alone would take up a good bit of your budget.

all said though, I think with some smart planning and judicious purchasing you could get everything done-- including the motor stuff within your budget.
Thank you very much. I think I have a handle on this now, like the 73 to 76 idea, for sure. Going to go with 15s, as I want to get as much rubber under there that I can. Not into big rim skinny tires at all. Going to replace what is there with new/better/modern parts, like you fellows have mentioned. I put the fancy rubber in many years ago and the car does not handle that bad. Rear discs and upgraded axles sound good as I am hoping to do a little more to the motor like roller rockers, but that will depend on money and what we discover when we inspect the motor. I do know it has some guts and I want to make sure the drive train can handle the power. Thank you once again and if anyone has any more suggestions......
 
You can achieve your goals of great handling sticking with the stock suspension format. So just keep that in mind.
 
Yup, got it, that is the plan. Upgrade, existing with better, more modern parts. Thank you.
That's the plan on mine, too. I'm not knocking anybody else's aftermarket suspension, but the Mopar suspension design is pretty dang good. So far, I've put a large front sway bar on mine. I have the rear but haven't installed it yet. I'm going to put the disc brakes on I rebuilt last year and upgrade to larger torsion bars when I do. About the last thing I'll need is a decent set of shocks. Some guys spend thousands of dollars on big time suspensions and that's nice. But nine times outta ten they will never use it to its full potential, so what's the point?
 
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That's the plan on mine, too. I'm not knocking anybody else's aftermarket suspension, but the Mopar suspension design is pretty dang good. So far, I've put a large front swap bar on mine. I have the rear but haven't installed it yet. I'm going to put the disc brakes on I rebuilt last year and upgrade to larger torsion bars when I do. About the last thing I'll need is a decent set of shocks. Some guys spend thousands of dollars on big time suspensions and that's nice. But nine times outta ten they will never use it to its full potential, so what's the point?
Agreed. Pretty much what I have learned over the past week. I have some money to spend, and I want to put it in the right places. Have a meeting next Tues with my guy. Thanks
 
You can achieve your goals of great handling sticking with the stock suspension format. So just keep that in mind.
agreed. just updating and upgrading with out going whole hog makes a ton of difference if you're spending the money in the right places.

for all intents and purposes my car is fairly vanilla. 73~76 set up, all rubber bushings, Moog offset upper bushings, .890 bars, 10.87 cop rotors, pro stop plus pads, 1" addco bar with poly bushings, older KYB's, firm feel #2 box with a flaming river coupler. out back older formula S springs, custom front hangars with 3 positions, poly bushings, and a small 5/8" bar that's frame mounted. 10X2.5" drums with sintered brakes. manual 15/16 master from a Dakota and a prop valve. I'm rolling on 15" cop wheels. the only frame modifications are subframe connectors.

this is nothing earth shattering. it's basically all stock components. the car handles quite nicely, you don't have to fight it at all. it's taut without being over bearing and the steering inputs are crisp. it's much like driving a newer BMW 3 series.

I've built stuff with 1.14 bars and all the adjustable bits and don't get me wrong, they are quite nice and handle phenomenally. but sometimes a little less is a little more.

when somebody asks me to build out suspension on their car, the first thing I do is take them out in mine and have them drive it. I tell them to note what they like, what they dislike and what they want more or less of. the benefit to starting with a 73~76 platform is that you can then tailor and tune that set up to individual tastes.
 
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