The horse is dead

[Newbomb Turk]

Check your arrogance at the door. In other words, guys that act like you do are on par with Dave Hughes and as you can see here, your rude manners are not popular.
Not everyone lives and breathes custom or high performance engines.
I'd bet some of you guys wouldn't have a clue about reskinning seats, bodywork or paint. You'd be as pissed as the OP was if you needed help with something that is outside of your area of expertise and they talked to you like you were an idiot. Stop being an asshole.
So the **** what if the man on the phone has had a bad day or the previous call he took was frustrating. If you can't be reasonably cordial, don't answer the phone. I'd love to see a guy like him try his routine to another man face to face. It would be fun to watch.
Take a casual glance at the questions that get posted on these forums. There are a LOT of members that ask about stuff that others have known about for 50 years. What oil to use, what spark plugs, my car runs rough, why does it knock, why does it overheat, etc...
You don't belittle the guys that don't know . Anyone with any level of decency wouldn't do that.
Sure, if you tell someone something 10 times and they still don't get it, you have a legitimate complaint but to say something stupid like everyone knows that 1.6 rocker arms have clearance issues , it is bullshit. Maybe everyone that has actually tried a mock up knows about it but not everyone has tried. We all have different levels of experience. If a vendor insults or demeans every customer that is new to the hobby, the hobby will die off.

Read it again. It’s pretty basic **** for a guy with all his experience he’s claiming.

If you don’t recognize the FACT that changing rocker ratios is not a bolt on deal you are over your head.


It’s that basic.

Yet, he called Hughes and told him his **** doesn’t fit because the pushrods hit the heads.

No ****? They will fit when the geometry is corrected, but you can bet he might still need to do some clearance work on the tunnels.

As someone else pointed out, TIME IS MONEY.

It would take an hour to actually walk someone through fitting and setting up rockers. Was Dave getting paid for that?

Do you want to work and not get paid over basic ****? Neither does anyone else I know.

And the sad fact is, had the OP done a search right here on FABO I guarantee you he would have found many threads and hundreds of posts on **** just like this.

Of course, you would also have to sort through the beehive spring fixes everything bullshit because they fix NOTHING but the OP would have had a fighting chance.

And one more time for posterity…if the OP bolted on a different brand of ROLLER rocker I’d bet everything I have and a lot of **** I don’t that the geometry is still wrong.

It’s not arrogance when you can do it. It’s TRUTH. Truth is hard.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Agreed. I've put together a lot of engines. I've done countless valve jobs on a Serdi, ported heads, decked blocks, etc etc. I've built tons of Shovelheads, Triumphs, and few Panheads too. Even a 6-71 blown 360. Now that **** takes time. But you know what I haven't done? Put 1.6 rockers on a 340.

So now you know two things at least.

They don’t just bolt on.

Your geometry is still wrong.

 

[Kern Dog]

It is arrogance when you expect others to know something that only is known through experience and you belittle them for not knowing.
Hey, I love to tease, prank and have fun with people. I'm guilty of being a bit too aggressive with how I treat others but I try hard to not be rude to someone that knows a lot less than I do. I joke and tease to have fun like men used to do on sports teams, construction sites, at bars, etc.
Why be nice to those less experienced ? Because I was that guy at one time. I was the guy that was in over my head and others with more experience and a sense of common decency did what people should do...they helped me instead of being an asshole.
Do you think that firemen should insult and be rude to people that are being rescued in a house fire?
Yeah, that is an extreme example but the point that I am making and the one that some will miss is that YOUR knowledge and experience does not excuse you for treating less experienced people with disrespect.

 

[j par]

I don't care how much **** the guy knows or doesn't. If yer an asshole you shouldn't be dealing with the public in any way shape or form. Obviously keeping staff is an issue as well or he wouldn't be on a phone. Sounds like he needs a "learnin'" helmet.

100 and 10 percent AGREE...

 

[j par]

His cams have a reputation for being better than anything you can buy out of a parts catalog.

I wonder where he did all his research and development on these cams that he has????... Cam grinders grind for him and he resells as his own????
Nothing kept me from the profile that I wanted when I just sent my old camp to oregon cam grinding for ninety nine dollars kind of had them grind.Whatever I wanted... just like he does without the attitude....

 

[mopowers]

A little humility goes a long way.

 

[Babyblue66]

It is arrogance when you expect others to know something that only is known through experience and you belittle them for not knowing.
Hey, I love to tease, prank and have fun with people. I'm guilty of being a bit too aggressive with how I treat others but I try hard to not be rude to someone that knows a lot less than I do. I joke and tease to have fun like men used to do on sports teams, construction sites, at bars, etc.
Why be nice to those less experienced ? Because I was that guy at one time. I was the guy that was in over my head and others with more experience and a sense of common decency did what people should do...they helped me instead of being an asshole.
Do you think that firemen should insult and be rude to people that are being rescued in a house fire?
Yeah, that is an extreme example but the point that I am making and the one that some will miss is that YOUR knowledge and experience does not excuse you for treating less experienced people with disrespect.

People come to me to fix their stuff. Things I often find simple. But I would never belittle a guy because he can't rebuild his own carburetor or set up his timing curve etc. If people ask questions, I'm happy to answer them too. I've helped a ton of people over the phone, or text. I'd rather be on the good side of karma than the bad. That may not always make you money, but I genuinely love old cars/bikes and want peoples **** to work well for them.
There's a fine line between arrogance and insecurity. More often than not, it's the latter why guys will talk down to someone.

 

[Kern Dog]

Wouldn't THIS be rude to post here when someone asks a question?

While it may be funny to some (myself included) it sure isn't polite!
I would post this as a joke to tease someone that I knew ....only if I thought that they would understand that I was joking.
(It might be fun to use in a political discussion too)

 

[j par]

Agreed. I've put together a lot of engines. I've done countless valve jobs on a Serdi, ported heads, decked blocks, etc etc. I've built tons of Shovelheads, Triumphs, and few Panheads too. Even a 6-71 blown 360. Now that **** takes time. But you know what I haven't done? Put 1.6 rockers on a 340.

Trust me, I've had these same kind of growing pains when I bought my miladan, 8 qt oil PAN and it leaked right out of the box and it didn't fit and I had to cut my K frame to make it fit Bang on my headers, and then of course. I get everybody on the forum going.Everybody knows that....
Well s***.....
But on the other hand everybody said, speed, master heads are junk because they always have been and their garbage and nobody should buy them Chinese junk. And then when I threw some on my car and they worked perfect right out of the box, the forum couldn't get enough of them...
You should've seen these people arguing. Who is going to get the tar? And who is going to get the feathers? When I was talking about putting dual quads on the stock three eighteen, but when I lost a half a second on the track, all I got was crickets, or people jumping in.Yeah, well of course it's going to do that...
Remember, these people are generally extremely insecure when they're not in their little element of knowledge...

 

[j par]

People come to me to fix their stuff. Things I often find simple. But I would never belittle a guy because he can't rebuild his own carburetor or set up his timing curve etc. If people ask questions, I'm happy to answer them too. I've helped a ton of people over the phone, or text. I'd rather be on the good side of karma than the bad. That may not always make you money, but I genuinely love old cars/bikes and want peoples **** to work well for them.
There's a fine line between arrogance and insecurity. More often than not, it's the latter why guys will talk down to someone.

Lol, I'm generally posting the same thing at the same time. L o l... Different way of putting it...

 

[Babyblue66]

Trust me, I've had these same kind of growing pains when I bought my miladan, 8 qt oil PAN and it leaked right out of the box and it didn't fit and I had to cut my K frame to make it fit Bang on my headers, and then of course. I get everybody on the forum going.Everybody knows that....
Well s***.....
But on the other hand everybody said, speed, master heads are junk because they always have been and their garbage and nobody should buy them Chinese junk. And then when I threw some on my car and they worked perfect right out of the box, the forum couldn't get enough of them...
You should've seen these people arguing. Who is going to get the tar? And who is going to get the feathers? When I was talking about putting dual quads on the stock three eighteen, but when I lost a half a second on the track, all I got was crickets, or people jumping in.Yeah, well of course it's going to do that...
Remember, these people are generally extremely insecure when they're not in their little element of knowledge...

I love all the comments of how things are from people that have never done the things they say won't work. I don't even bring up the **** I plan to do or build to anyone anymore. I just do it, and when it works, I have fun with it.

 

[MopaR&D]

Ok. You deal with **** like this on the phone for DECADES and see how you do.

I took some 440 heads to a machine shop in Denver Metro area back in 2012 or so. Shop owner was a man in his 70s (at least) who had been running that business for at least 40 years. I asked him plenty of dumb questions that I'm sure he'd heard countless times over his career. And you know what he did? He answered calmly and patiently and explained how things worked, almost like he enjoyed teaching me something.

So yeah, if someone can't figure out how to handle dealing with that 'dumb ****' on the phone 'for decades', they need to find a new line of work where they can just stay away from people entirely. Or hire someone to answer the phone for them who can.

 

[Charrlie_S]

In my younger days, when I knew everything, I used a machine shop that was great. I would bring a part in and tell the owner what I wanted. He would either say OK pick it up in 4 days, and give me $50.00, or I don't think you should do that, and proceed to tell me why not. My money, my decision. He took the time to teach me one thing at a time. But let me shoot myself in the *** if I didn't learn.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I took some 440 heads to a machine shop in Denver Metro area back in 2012 or so. Shop owner was a man in his 70s (at least) who had been running that business for at least 40 years. I asked him plenty of dumb questions that I'm sure he'd heard countless times over his career. And you know what he did? He answered calmly and patiently and explained how things worked, almost like he enjoyed teaching me something.

So yeah, if someone can't figure out how to handle dealing with that 'dumb ****' on the phone 'for decades', they need to find a new line of work where they can just stay away from people entirely. Or hire someone to answer the phone for them who can.

Right. But you were paying him for his SERVICE.

You didn’t buy parts from him.

Two totally different things.

 

[MopaR&D]

Right. But you were paying him for his SERVICE.

You didn’t buy parts from him.

Two totally different things.

Ok.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

It is arrogance when you expect others to know something that only is known through experience and you belittle them for not knowing.
Hey, I love to tease, prank and have fun with people. I'm guilty of being a bit too aggressive with how I treat others but I try hard to not be rude to someone that knows a lot less than I do. I joke and tease to have fun like men used to do on sports teams, construction sites, at bars, etc.
Why be nice to those less experienced ? Because I was that guy at one time. I was the guy that was in over my head and others with more experience and a sense of common decency did what people should do...they helped me instead of being an asshole.
Do you think that firemen should insult and be rude to people that are being rescued in a house fire?
Yeah, that is an extreme example but the point that I am making and the one that some will miss is that YOUR knowledge and experience does not excuse you for treating less experienced people with disrespect.

I didn’t expect him to know anything.
What I said was he could have saved himself a lot of grief had he just done some research BEFORE he bought the rockers.


If you think that is arrogant and disrespectful that’s on you.

Coming on here and trashing a guy for your inexperience is bullshit.

And if you think I’m wrong about the OP, look at this thread.

He thinks I disrespected him. I told him the big boy truth.

I’m too ******* old to baby sit Karen’s.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Ok.

Do you work for free? Especially when a guy calls you and the first thing out of his mouth is this doesn’t fit?

And you know where the conversation will go, so you refund most of his money. It was cheaper.

 

[4spdragtop]

But you don't know how the conversation started right?
I've read enuf on here about Dickhead Dave that's it's tempting to email and call him so he can stroke out. He's an asshole flat out.

Do you work for free? Especially when a guy calls you and the first thing out of his mouth is this doesn’t fit?

And you know where the conversation will go, so you refund most of his money. It was cheaper.

 

[MopaR&D]

Do you work for free? Especially when a guy calls you and the first thing out of his mouth is this doesn’t fit?

And you know where the conversation will go, so you refund most of his money. It was cheaper.

I would if I knew that guy would appreciate my patience and go tell all his car buddies that I'm a pleasure to work with, then I'd get more business and a good reputation. Sometimes doing favors for free in the short term gets you more money in the long term, among other good things. I've seen plenty of testimonials on here proving that.

 

[Babyblue66]

Do you work for free? Especially when a guy calls you and the first thing out of his mouth is this doesn’t fit?

And you know where the conversation will go, so you refund most of his money. It was cheaper.

It's amazing how you know everything and how every scenario has played out. That's one hell of a gift you have. Must be nice knowing it all.

 

[Kern Dog]

I didn’t expect him to know anything.
What I said was he could have saved himself a lot of grief had he just done some research BEFORE he bought the rockers.

We agree on that. Sometimes it is obvious when a change will require additional changes. Sometimes it comes as a surprise when it doesn't seem like a new part is that much different than the original.

If you think that is arrogant and disrespectful that’s on you.

No, it isn't. You're clinging to the attitude that we should all expect obstacles. That is a pessimistic viewpoint that not everyone shares.

Coming on here and trashing a guy for your inexperience is bullshit.

It escalated to that but started off with the OP being pissed for what seemed to me to be a legitimate complaint.
Maybe it is too much to ask but I'd hope that a vendor would have more tact when dealing with customers. A softer approach from the vendor would have produced a totally different outcome.

And if you think I’m wrong about the OP, look at this thread.

He thinks I disrespected him. I told him the big boy truth.

I’m too ******* old to baby sit Karen’s.

The last sentence leads others to believe that you are just as curt and stubborn as the vendor.
Being old isn't a license to be rude to customers. Some people are assholes their entire lives.
You keep missing the underlying point....that there are a LOT of customers that want to buy but need some guidance. If there are no instructions, they are flying blind and will have more troubles. A vendor that is rude to a new customer just chased money away to another vendor. He had a chance to build rapport and have future sales from the customer and others that the customer speaks to. Instead, he pissed him off and will see fewer sales.
I'm not stating that a vendor needs to kiss ***, just be reasonable.
Have you seen the Seinfeld episode with The Soup Nazi ? This Dave guy sounds like the same type of guy....a man with great products that people want but he is rude to customers that don't act exactly the way that he wants.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

But you don't know how the conversation started right?
I've read enuf on here about Dickhead Dave that's it's tempting to email and call him so he can stroke out. He's an asshole flat out.

I never said he wasn’t. He and I have had words. Several times.

The guy who used to own Indy was another guy like that. I got into it one day with him, not surprisingly over his rockers.

I told him to **** off and hung up on him.

He called back a half an hour later, told me to **** off and hung up on me.

That was so funny even my boss got a kick out of it. So I called him back and we laughed about it.

Thin skin gets burned easily.

 

[mopar head]

Damn... As the world turns.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I would if I knew that guy would appreciate my patience and go tell all his car buddies that I'm a pleasure to work with, then I'd get more business and a good reputation. Sometimes doing favors for free in the short term gets you more money in the long term, among other good things. I've seen plenty of testimonials on here proving that.

You are entirely clueless about this industry.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

We agree on that. Sometimes it is obvious when a change will require additional changes. Sometimes it comes as a surprise when it doesn't seem like a new part is that much different than the original.



No, it isn't. You're clinging to the attitude that we should all expect obstacles. That is a pessimistic viewpoint that not everyone shares.



It escalated to that but started off with the OP being pissed for what seemed to me to be a legitimate complaint.
Maybe it is too much to ask but I'd hope that a vendor would have more tact when dealing with customers. A softer approach from the vendor would have produced a totally different outcome.



The last sentence leads others to believe that you are just as curt and stubborn as the vendor.
Being old isn't a license to be rude to customers. Some people are assholes their entire lives.
You keep missing the underlying point....that there are a LOT of customers that want to buy but need some guidance. If there are no instructions, they are flying blind and will have more troubles. A vendor that is rude to a new customer just chased money away to another vendor. He had a chance to build rapport and have future sales from the customer and others that the customer speaks to. Instead, he pissed him off and will see fewer sales.
I'm not stating that a vendor needs to kiss ***, just be reasonable.
Have you seen the Seinfeld episode with The Soup Nazi ? This Dave guy sounds like the same type of guy....a man with great products that people want but he is rude to customers that don't act exactly the way that he wants.

I’m not curt or stubborn. I’m your standard, garden variety prick. I don’t apologize for that.

Don’t buy from Dave if you don’t like him. But don’t ***** about Dave because you don’t know something and he didn’t want to baby sit you.