upgraded duster alt, no gas gauge, coolant temp gauge, wipers, or dome light

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john27pa

john27pa

74 360/904 Duster
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
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Location
DuBois PA
I have a 74 Duster. I have the complete wiring from a 74 Valiant in it. I did the alt upgrade and bypassed the ammeter. Bolted those 2 wires together, ran straight through bulk head connector, etc etc. I have tail lights, head lights, side marker lights, parking lights, heater fan motor, most dash lights working. I have a spare ign switch hooked up to the harness because I need to take steering column apart to put in new ign switch as the one in the column has no key. I dont have gas gauge, coolant temp gauge, dome light, wiper motor, and 4 way emergency flashers.
I replaced flasher relays-turn signals "flash" normally now. I cant start car with ign switch, but I can "kill" the engine with it-its just hooked temp into column harness-basically laying on floorboard for now. Im hoping to replace ign switch tomorrow.
Am I missing something as to why my dash gauges and wiper motor wont work? The headlight switch works fine as also the turn signals. But no emergency flashers and other items stated. All working lights are nice and bright- not dim, so dont see a ground issue-but could be wrong. I put a "spare" ground wire that is actually screwed into the dash circuit board with a factory installed screw-near headlight switch-just for better ground. Its late, and I am beat- so I hope I didnt forget anything. I have searched the archives. Found some things that were close to helping me- but not really. All help is greatly appreciated. Car hasnt been on road for almost 20 years. After getting a used 360 and other various items- Im hoping to have this car on the road in a month or so.
 
I cannot think of one or two simple, related problems that will cause all this. I'd say you have some corrosion / other issues

I'd start by pulling the bulkhead connector apart and inspecting it

Pull the fuse box down and inspect it and see where/ where not you have power

Check connectors for "tight" and move them in/ out to "scrub" the connections clean

The dash cluster may have broken/ loose pins on the connector to PC board pins and the pc board may have corrosion/ grounding issues
 
The ignition switch issue sounds like you aren't getting +12 V on the "start" wire (usually yellow). I assume you are jumping the starter relay under the hood. Use a multi-meter to verify (if needed, buy one or you won't get far in electrical diagnosis). If you need a new ignition switch, they are ~$12 new and you re-use your inner cylinder (same key).

The wiper problem could be the wiper switch. Those are simple if single speed, but a 74 is probably 2 spd or variable. I usually see 5 or 6 wires going to the wiper in those years, so complicated.

What doesn't work on the dash? If everything, it is probably in the circular multi-wire connector. Most dash gages are separate, other than the connector.
 
Is the instrument panel chassis grounded. It wont work right while damgling from the harness connectors. Wiper switch needs chassis ground also. Most everything one these cars needs chassis ground. just guessing here.
 
Dash is installed-grounded to dash. I actually have an extra wire that I hooked to one of the screws on the back of the dash cluster to better ground it. The dash cluster lights work-so I was guessing that the gauges are grounded??
Im about ready to just rewire all the wires at the bulkhead and run them straight through that so there is no more problems. Just dont feel like making a huge mess under there.
For the wiper motor- I have the variable speed wipers. It could be the switch or the motor, just not sure on how to check to see. My electrical skills are right up there with me building a space shuttle-slim to none. My way of using a multimeter is to put it to the 12 volt setting and if the gauge moves-I have juice lol. Sad yes, but it works.
I will try and get a good clean at the bulk head and recheck my ground. Hoping that I can get the new ign switch in today and possibly a new starter relay. Starter relay=10 min, ign switch-all day with swearing lol, gotta get a steering wheel puller from a friend first. Plus, going to salvage yard to pick up a throttle cable for a V8 and the rear bumper guards from the Valiant V8 donor car. Not much body stuff left but it still has the green seats, 318 & tranny, and may still have the disc brake setup. This is the same car that I stripped the wiring and dash from.
 
OK, I had to ask. Hope you understand. Anyway..
The ignition switch sends power to certain fuses when in the run position.
Dash lights get their power from the headlight circuit, hot at all times.
I think if you'll solve the ignition switch wiring problem you may solve those other problems too.
I dont have 73 74 wiring diagrams but I can tell you the power supply to gauges from ignition switch is dark blue with white tracer. No fuse in that wire.
 
ok- put new ign key lock in. Didnt change anything. The car wont start-the starter doesnt engage when key is turned to start position. Didnt do it before I changed key tumbler. It starts when I cross the terminals at the starter relay, and shuts off engine with key at steering column. Nothing changed today. I took out all the "blades" from the bulk harness on the wiper section-far right-closest to drivers inner fender, Sanded them shiny with my dremel, plugged back in and wiper motor still no go. Redid my "extra" ground for the dash to the steering column hold nuts. Still have no 4 ways either. Would really like to get the 4 way flashers working so I can hopefully get it inspected soon. Horn and turn signals work, no working gauges. Not sure if I have reverse lights because I dont have the trans linkage hooked up yet to put into reverse.
Bypassing the ammeter gauge wont cause this, will it? From what I saw- the dash still gets juice even if the ammeter is bypassed, the circuit board has to be "hot" because the dash lights work-the 194's??
 
You need to do some testing rather than "throwing parts" (ignition switch, etc) at the problem

You can access three important points---

the IGN switch connector coming down from the column

the bulkhead connector, which you can probe from the outside

and of course test points under the hood.

Your ignition switch has several SEPARATE switches inside the container that is the swtich

You have the accessories switch, which is hot in RUN and ACCESSORY, and supplies the ACC buss in the fuse box

The IGN RUN (IGN 1) which comes out of the switch on DARK BLUE, and supplies the gauges and warning lights, goes through the bulkhead and supplies the ignition system and alternator field, regulator

The START (YELLOW) wire, hot ONLY in start, goes DIRECTLY from the IGN switch, through the bulkhead, to the start relay

The BALLAST BYPASS (BROWN) hot only in start, goes directly from the IGN switch, through the bulkhead, to the coil+ side of the ballast resistor

You should be able to clip your meter on the yellow "push on" at the star relay and determine if there is joltage there "in start." If not, check the bulkhead, and the IGN switch connector

If you DO have voltage, the problem is the start relay, or the Neutral safety switch, IE on the engine side of the firewall.

You should be able to check the brown bypass by clipping your voltmeter to the coil+ terminal, and should have battery voltage "in start."
 
I printed all that out to check tomorrow.
The 4 ways work if I have the 4 way switch out and the turn signal on in either left or right, but 4 ways dont work with turn signal off. Any ideas there?
 
dont forget about the seat belt interlock and that the starter relay has to find a ground if this is deleted. i would run a ground from the starter relay all by itself to the body, just to rule it out
 
with my charger, the 4 way flasher and the brake lights are on the same circuit. for some reason the flashers will not work if the brake light circuit was interrupted, such as a bad brake light switch. i dont think it is the same as a duster, but just a thought. do your brake lights work?
 
73AbodEE said:
dont forget about the seat belt interlock and that the starter relay has to find a ground if this is deleted. i would run a ground from the starter relay all by itself to the body, just to rule it out
Click to expand...

Actually the seatbelt device is not in the ground circuit to my knowledge. The one's I've dealt with (only about 3) had a reset relay under the hood, with a two yellow/ yellow tracer wires on the connector. You jumper the two yellow wires, and off you go.

EDIT. The relay of one of 'em I junked out

16kx4d2.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
Actually the seatbelt device is not in the ground circuit to my knowledge. The one's I've dealt with (only about 3) had a reset relay under the hood, with a two yellow/ yellow tracer wires on the connector. You jumper the two yellow wires, and off you go.
Click to expand...

Correct. Its realy just a switch that interupts the start signal ftom ign' switch to start relay which was always a yellow wire.
 
gotchya....i dont have one of them things, but i have read that they are causing problems with getting power from the key to the relay....
 
Thanks everyone for all the help!! Still havent figured it out yet. I do have a good temp gauge and my oil-idiot-light came on now. The circuit board needed a good cleaning. I also took the dremel out and sanded the front turn signal sockets out- they needed it even though they worked. I havent tried the brake lights to see if they work yet. So on the next day/afternoon off-if its not snowing (yes- they are calling for snow tonight here in NW PA), I will do the seat belt relay thing and check my brake lights. Still dont have wipers yet. Need to find a way to test it to see if its just not the motor.
Also- looking tonight on sunpro website because I saw a 1 1/2" alternator gauge today at work in a trio gauge pack-volt, temp, and oil gauges for $34 at advance auto. Going to see if I can order it seperately and try to see if I can get it to work in my spare dash first.
 
yeah- I saw that and it kinda gave me the idea. I am thinking that since the one I am looking at is only 1 1/2" round-same as dash hole- it may be alot easier to install as a unit-rather than cutting it all up. Its a down the road project.
 
I copied the conversion in the top of the thread on my 67. Tearing those gauges apart is not all that hard, once you decide to do that. I did mine in an "easy afternoon." I didn't bother changing the original needle on the gauge, which is shorter than my OEM 67 gauges.

While I "love" ammeters, this procedure worked so well I just cannot believe it.
 
john27pa said:
yeah- I saw that and it kinda gave me the idea. I am thinking that since the one I am looking at is only 1 1/2" round-same as dash hole- it may be alot easier to install as a unit-rather than cutting it all up. Its a down the road project.
Click to expand...


Difficulty and modifications vary with application. If your original amp gauge is positioned in such a way as is screen is floating, The 2 tiny plastic attach points found inside the SunPro Styleline gauge will not be trust worthy over the long haul.
The SunPro Volts screen was captured inside the can. it coild not apply stress to those weak attach points. Additional support for a larger floating screen is not as difficult as it is time consuming. Have fun.
 
ok- turns out after 3 days+ of checking wires, redoing grounds, swearing, etc- I did get my 4 ways to work. Turns out the fuse cavity was dirtier than what it looked. I even have brake lights now. Still dont know about reverse lights though. I will say this- those tail lights are brighter than I ever remembered them being lol. I still cant get car to start with key. I unplugged seat belt relay thing and jumped a wire across the yellow wires. Still no go. I reaD something about it may be my nuetral safety switch or linkage adjustment. Thats tomorrow if it doesnt snow.
 
Troubleshooting the NSS is easy. Just go to your starter relay, ID the yellow wire from the key (start) and unhook the OTHER push on terminal that goes down to the transmission. Hook a clip lead from the exposed terminal on the relay, and it should crank.

If not check that you have power on the yellow with the key twisted to "start."

If you do, bad relay

If not, check back through the bulkhead connector, and or get into the ignition switch connector.
 
Its the nuetral safety switch. I grounded that post on the relay and hit the key- started right up. Now if I can get my wiper motor to work.
 
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