Well, darn, just put a hole in the oil pan.

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Cruisingram

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2020
Messages
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Location
Pahoa, Hawaii
Well, my too low 68 Dart got a lava rock between the oil pan and the road, oil pan lost badly. SOOO - I am going to do the BBP swap on the brakes, so I can use the rims I want. Got a machine shop that will redrill the axles and drums. Also will mill the heads on my- wait for it- 225 to replace the 170. Thanks to oregon cams, and members here, I have a cam, reground for torque, a 2bl manifold with a 38 weber to go on it, and have hogged out the exhause manifold to 2 1/2 inches. I am going wiith Dr Diff on the front disc swap. going from 13" wheels to 15" wheels, not super wide, I think 205s all the way around. Taller is better as I want clearance. Should get 4" clearance there. Also going to small block diameter torsion bars- the smallest they made. Adding a leaf or two to the back as well. Will add one leaf, take a look, then add another if I have to, to get the stance just right, without it looking like a lifted 4x4 but keeping it off the crappy Hawaiian roads! So about the only thing I haven't done yet is consider the transmission. Mine works great as it is. Don't really want to change much. But was thinking there may be some sort of lock up converter that is great for MPG and the torque this thing will make now? Any suggestions? This is a hiway cruiser, will never be raced or hot rodded, just driven and enjoyed.
 
Well.....at least it was goin IN and not comin OUT.
 
See pic in my avatar, that one runs nines on a hot day with a 500ci motor in it. This is my four door cruiser man. I live in hippy land. Probably even going to do a mod top on it.
I am at a point where looking at avatars is like watching skinflix on a coded channel...
I'm sure there is something there, but I got no idea what I'm really looking at


But wouldn't you need a bigger engine for the weight of those 2 extra doors?
 
...looking at avatars is like watching skinflix on a coded channel...
I'm sure there is something there, but I got no idea what I'm really looking at
:rofl: i wonder if anyone under 40 even knows what you're talking about
 
I am at a point where looking at avatars is like watching skinflix on a coded channel...
I'm sure there is something there, but I got no idea what I'm really looking at


But wouldn't you need a bigger engine for the weight of those 2 extra doors?
Just tilt your head sideways and cross your eyes a bit.
 
Well try this then LOL

148126_1621780537872_4618437_n.jpg


54514_1621780337867_4211199_o.jpg
 
I want to see the oil pan & the hole in it. LMAO
Soon as I get it on concrete and get started on it, I will take some good picks, The oil pan up a good fight, it was really dented in to the point of touching the crank before it holed.
 
Sis dumped a broken down 67 Valiant with a 6 cylinder on the road to Halaiwa some time back in 2005. Playboy TV on UHF channel 22 required a decoder box. You could tune in a 'negative' black and white fuzzy image but no sound, but you could tune further off the video carrier and find the audio channel...get 2 tv's together and tune one to each carrier and break out the popcorn and your imagination....1982.
 
Sis dumped a broken down 67 Valiant with a 6 cylinder on the road to Halaiwa some time back in 2005. Playboy TV on UHF channel 22 required a decoder box. You could tune in a 'negative' black and white fuzzy image but no sound, but you could tune further off the video carrier and find the audio channel...get 2 tv's together and tune one to each carrier and break out the popcorn and your imagination....1982.

i was born in 82...its all coming together now
 
All that torque?
You didn't mention any turbo................
So what are we talking about here?

IMO; you'll get more mpgs, out of your engine at cruise-rpm, simply by giving it the cruise-timing it craves. The factory D is not likely to be able to supply enough cruise-timing, no matter how you modify it. But more cylinder pressure is almost always a good thing. The thing is, at cruising speed, you can adjust the Dynamic cylinder pressure with the gas-pedal.
================
Warning; opinion coming;
You may already know all what's coming. If so, I'm sorry to waste your time.
Lets suppose your combo in it's current state, takes 30hp to maintain 65mph. At .45 pound of fuel per hp per hour, that would be about 13.5 pounds of fuel or 2.25 gallons. In one hour, the car will have traveled 65 miles, so the simple math is 65/2.25=29mpgs. It is the tuners job to get the combo working as best as he can to achieve that.
With a given powertrain, about the best you can do is;
eliminate as much parasitic drag, wind-resistance, and mass as possible, and
try to get all the fuel burned up and transferring as much of the expanding gas pressure to the flywheel, as is possible, at exactly the right time................ This is the KEY.
CCP at cranking rpm is not part of this equation because in steady-state cruising, the gas pedal will adjust the pressure to whatever the combo needs. And whatever the throttle-position ends up being, the tuners job is to try and put the right amount of fuel into the intake-air, to make the 30hp.
If you increase the CCP by say 30 percent, at cranking speed, that just means that it will take less throttle to make the required pressure. The car will still need 30hp to go 65mph.
Now, if the transfers cannot make 30 hp, and she has to get up on the mains, what then? Your mains have to be a certain size to satisfy the engine's WOT needs. What if at 65mph, that leads to the combination of; mains plus transfers plus mixture screws, being too fat? What is the solution to that?
I mean IDK.
Well I have an idea, but you'll figure it out; maybe you already have ........
The point is this;
If you make more than one change atta time, and get an improvement in mpgs;
how will you know which change made the improvement?
Maybe you get no improvement; what then?
Suppose one change made an improvement, but a second negated it with an equal and opposite loss of improvement. You may never know it.
==================
But here's a thought;
Suppose your combo requires 30 hp to go 65. What size engine is required to do that?
I mean; could you do it with a 318/340/360/400 ?
Well of course you could; but each bigger sized engine is gonna bring more parasitic drag, and combustion inefficiencies to the game. If you can run the bigger engine at a lower rpm, suppose you break even? A lotta people will say no you cannot break even. Well they might be right. But then again, they might not.
What if your combo takes 30 hp, but only because 7 of it is due to parasitic drag inside the engine? That's 7 hp for 6 cylinders. You might assume then, that an equally sized 8 cylinder ( now; 225/6 x8=300 cubes), would lose 7/6 x 8= 9.33hp to friction. So now you need 9.33 -7 +30= 32.33hp which will make the mpgs to be 26.8. Ouch that hurt right,lol. But hang on, say yur combo is running 3.23s, so 65=3000rpm@4% slip with 24.5" tires.
What if you regear your little 300V8 with 2.76s and run a taller tire, to get 65=2350? Would you get your mpgs back?
What if you install a 367/ manual trans/ with overdrive, and drop the rpm to 65=1600? Maybe you get the parasitic down enough to make 32mpgs?
I mean, I'm just crazy spitballing here......................
 
All that torque?
You didn't mention any turbo................
So what are we talking about here?

IMO; you'll get more mpgs, out of your engine at cruise-rpm, simply by giving it the cruise-timing it craves. The factory D is not likely to be able to supply enough cruise-timing, no matter how you modify it. But more cylinder pressure is almost always a good thing. The thing is, at cruising speed, you can adjust the Dynamic cylinder pressure with the gas-pedal.
================
Warning; opinion coming;
You may already know all what's coming. If so, I'm sorry to waste your time.
Lets suppose your combo in it's current state, takes 30hp to maintain 65mph. At .45 pound of fuel per hp per hour, that would be about 13.5 pounds of fuel or 2.25 gallons. In one hour, the car will have traveled 65 miles, so the simple math is 65/2.25=29mpgs. It is the tuners job to get the combo working as best as he can to achieve that.
With a given powertrain, about the best you can do is;
eliminate as much parasitic drag, wind-resistance, and mass as possible, and
try to get all the fuel burned up and transferring as much of the expanding gas pressure to the flywheel, as is possible, at exactly the right time................ This is the KEY.
CCP at cranking rpm is not part of this equation because in steady-state cruising, the gas pedal will adjust the pressure to whatever the combo needs. And whatever the throttle-position ends up being, the tuners job is to try and put the right amount of fuel into the intake-air, to make the 30hp.
If you increase the CCP by say 30 percent, at cranking speed, that just means that it will take less throttle to make the required pressure. The car will still need 30hp to go 65mph.
Now, if the transfers cannot make 30 hp, and she has to get up on the mains, what then? Your mains have to be a certain size to satisfy the engine's WOT needs. What if at 65mph, that leads to the combination of; mains plus transfers plus mixture screws, being too fat? What is the solution to that?
I mean IDK.
Well I have an idea, but you'll figure it out; maybe you already have ........
The point is this;
If you make more than one change atta time, and get an improvement in mpgs;
how will you know which change made the improvement?
Maybe you get no improvement; what then?
Suppose one change made an improvement, but a second negated it with an equal and opposite loss of improvement. You may never know it.
==================
But here's a thought;
Suppose your combo requires 30 hp to go 65. What size engine is required to do that?
I mean; could you do it with a 318/340/360/400 ?
Well of course you could; but each bigger sized engine is gonna bring more parasitic drag, and combustion inefficiencies to the game. If you can run the bigger engine at a lower rpm, suppose you break even? A lotta people will say no you cannot break even. Well they might be right. But then again, they might not.
What if your combo takes 30 hp, but only because 7 of it is due to parasitic drag inside the engine? That's 7 hp for 6 cylinders. You might assume then, that an equally sized 8 cylinder ( now; 225/6 x8=300 cubes), would lose 7/6 x 8= 9.33hp to friction. So now you need 9.33 -7 +30= 32.33hp which will make the mpgs to be 26.8. Ouch that hurt right,lol. But hang on, say yur combo is running 3.23s, so 65=3000rpm@4% slip with 24.5" tires.
What if you regear your little 300V8 with 2.76s and run a taller tire, to get 65=2350? Would you get your mpgs back?
What if you install a 367/ manual trans/ with overdrive, and drop the rpm to 65=1600? Maybe you get the parasitic down enough to make 32mpgs?
I mean, I'm just crazy spitballing here......................

All good stuff- some things that will be the same no matter what- I will be running the tallest tires I can fit under the car on the rims I am getting, basically for clearence on Hawaii roads. Lava rocks suck. I think the tires are actually nearer to 26".

I almost NEVER run 65 mph for any length of time on my island- much more likely to be between 25-50 mph 95% of the time. On my drive to kona, there is about 60-80 miles of hiway that I run that speed, and even then, one side is a climb, the other side, a coast. I drive 25 miles round trip every day to work- either in the dart or my Jeep. Its 10mph to the pavement for 2 1/2 miles, then 40-55 for 12 miles over the newly paved lava fields to my office, up hill, then down hill on the way back. A 26 mile commute to Hilo 3 times a week, never much more than 55mph, if that, due to traffic.

going to kona once a month is the fastest the car goes LOL.

Gearing I may play with in the future.

Making the 225 as efficient as possible right now it my first step. I may add a turbo later, but only because of the altitude changes I do go through living on a volcano and such.

IT is really cost prohibitive for me to do a full V8 swap for a couple reasons- the reality being again, living on an outer island of Hawaii. I have a couple 318s, both in serious need or rebuild. I have yet to find a 318 that was a runner that I would use for the swap.

Also- it puts a lot more weight over the front of the car, again, lava roads.

Just changing out the trans would cost me more than what I am doing now, and my wife doesn't want it that way anyway. VIN says it came with a 225, so out comes the 170 and a 225 goes in. The increase in torque at low RPM will increase or have no change in MPG, I am betting on it.

Honestly, this is my first /6 build and car, and I am kinda having fun with that instead of my usual bigger is better approach LOL.

I think the only thing I have left to figure out is a torque converter at this point, if there is some kind of improvement over stock for daily driving I haven't heard about?
 
FYI- after the rest of the car is done, a turbo running a constant 6psi is not out of the question.
 
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