what oil to use

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Funny, you missed the point (not!). We're not talking about "The BB high lift cammed, double valve springed animal under the hood of your Demon."

Sorry, looks like this thread is about Demon Seed's animal motor. My bad. I thought it was about understanding oil specifications and applications and ultimately dispelling some myths that continue to be spread around here.
 
Ace..I have been wondering myself how much hype or BS all this zinc crap really is. At the Nationals this year there was a Royal Purple booth and they had all type of stuff about zinc and they were giving away a Corvette Enthusiast mag and it had a long article about zinc and how great Royal Purple was. A month or so later I get my first Mopar Enthusiast and they have an article in the back about cheap ways to increase horsepower, and one suggestion was using Royal Purple, stating they were getting up to 9 horsepower gain by switching over to it. Then the following issue they have this horror story about Zinc being decreased and low and behold and page 2 of the article one of the biggest pictures of the entire story is a bottle of Royal Purple. On Monday I just picked up a new motor I got from Hensley Performance, I brought up the zinc question and they said they use either Joe Gibbs racing oil or Joe Gibbs Cam break in oil (not 100% sure which one it was) for break in and to use a good oil. They use Valvoline VRI oil and suggested that or a comparable oil. Never said anything about adding a zinc additive or anything to the like. These guys have been building and racing Mopars for over 40 years and still run the Hemi S/S class.

Look how great advertising does for Fram oil filters, most people believe the hype and follow like sheeps.
 
Ace said:
Funny, you missed the point (not!). We're not talking about "The BB high lift cammed, double valve springed animal under the hood of your Demon."

Sorry, looks like this thread is about Demon Seed's animal motor. My bad. I thought it was about understanding oil specifications and applications and ultimately dispelling some myths that continue to be spread around here.
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So tell me Ace, what is "your" advice on the subject of what oils to use because so far on this thread all you've done is critize the thread in general.

Terry
 
I have no "advice." Only offering unbiased objective FACTUAL information. Do with it as you please. Learn, disregard, or accuse me of being some sort of idiot, I couldn't care less.

Caveat emptor.
 
With all the $$$ I am pissing away on gasoline, I think I spend another $20-$25 and use a racing motor oil. If its not needed oh well but it can't hurt it, just hope Amazon keeps selling it/ Jegs is a rip off at $10 a quart. But everything cost more at Jegs.
 
dodge freak said:
The way I look at motor oil now is, if I CAN buy it in a local store, it must not be too good.
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Oh, crap. Maybe I shouldn't be buying my anti-freeze locally.:toothy7:
Is green or pink best?

K-Mart = hy·per·bo·le

noun Rhetoric. 1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”
 
:axe:This thread is like the Greek mythological figure the Hydra, each time you cut off one of it`s heads, two grow back in it`s place. Lol! Here`s something that may help the oil issue being discussed here. According to Chryslers original factory service manual for `68; "whenever an engine is rebuilt and a new camshaft and/or tappets are installed, add one quart of factory recommended oil additive to engine oil to aid engine break-in (Engine Oil Additive No. 1879406) or equivalent. The oil mixture should be left in the engine for a minimum of 500 miles, and drained at the next scheduled oil change." Hopefully this should shine some light on the need for the zinc additive at break-in as a prophylactic but also lends itself to the fact that after break-in it`s not necessary. Years ago though there was leaded gas as well as other metals like zinc and magnesium in higher concentrations in oil and gasoline to help "lubricate" the engine. We must do what we can with what we have in these modern days with emission controls if we still want to run our dinosaurs. There you go, that should cauterize the Hydras neck, at least for the next five minutes.
 
dodge freak said:
I use Valvoline "not street legal" oil, might be over kill but better to be safe than sorry.

My motor been rebuilt 6 years old and like 30,000 miles on it. When a swap heads last month I looked at the cam-did not remove it,just looking at it, seemed it look fine. All lobes seem to look the same.

Amazon sells it but they get sold out now and then.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_g...ds=Valvoline+"not+street+legal"+oil&x=13&y=21
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Bump for those who do not look back at old posts.

As for anti-freeze, well if the EPA starts screwing that up too, then I guess I stop buying that at Auto Zone also. Valvoline does make a racing anti-freeze but I see no need to use that--right now.
 
HEY GUYS

i am a mopar nut working at a chevy dealer.gotta love the irony.

this is the second time in recent weeks i have seen the use of eos (gm#1052367) mentioned.

if you still want to use it.find all that you can and buy it !!!!

GM DISCONTINUED IT ABOUT 2 MONTHS AGO !!!

guess they found out too many mopar gearheads were using it and didn't like the competition having it ;)
 
No, the EPA told GM they have to change it.

Theres a new EOS coming out, should be in the dealerships soon. The old EOS sells for like $15-$20 a can on E-bay.

Best now is to use what Comps or Crane sells, that is market towards race cars, not street motors.

Speaking of racers, this is one type of break in oil they like to use.
http://shop.joegibbsracingoil.com/Content/product-28-1-19.htm?VPID=29&TPID=30
 
Lots of good info Ace. A lot of it jives with what I have read. The part about ZDDP concentrations over 1400 was one. The numbers I saw were not to exceed 1500 by much because of the ash issue. I don't know about what they say about just going ahead and using the 800ppm stuff though. as I said earlier, the thing that got me started on this was several posts on various racing forums from muscle cars, to Buick turbos, to Jap cars about guys losing cams and not knowing why until they found out about this issue. When they went to higher ZDDP oils the problem disappeared. I think I will err on the side of safety. I also noted the Pennsylvania crude stuff. That is the whole selling point behind Kendall/Brad Penn green racing oil. It is supposedly so much better because it is Pennsylvania crude.
 
What Was The Coment About Advertising And Fram Filters???? Did I Miss Something??? Fram No Good Now Either???? Whats Every One Using?????
 
My brother had some motor work done a year and a half ago and they guy at the machine shop had very strong feeling about not using Fram filters. Just figured it was someone who hated Fram. I then read this post here...http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=28092&highlight=oil+filter
So when I picked up my motor from Hensley i asked what filter should I use they said they use Baldwin, but Wix is a close runner up. He said if you are in an absolute emergency situation dont use a Fram. I asked why and he said someone there use to be a rep from one of the filter companies and has cut open tons of filters and by far Fram is the cheapest. So, when I got home I did a little more research and found these links http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilter-fram1.txt
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html
 
The Fram story is a myth as well. They may be marginally more expensive on the high end, but their good filters are just as good as the other's good filters and their cheap filters are just as bad as the other's cheap filters.

The Fram myth has been perpetuated basically due to volume. With the lion's share of the market for many years, it was only logical that more filter failures were attributed to Fram than other brands. Once the myth ball gets rolling, it's darn near impossible to stop.
 
This guy cut open a ton of filters and shows the media, how they are constructed and how the passages are. http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html#fram. He then list his findings http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html.
He does state that this Fram is decent
Fram Tough Guard

Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with a clever integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. I personally do not use this filter, but the design didn't have enough bad qualities to cause me to tell others to avoid it.

The other Frams

Fram Extra Guard

Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circulating through my system. The oil passage to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

Fram Double Guard

Another bad filter idea brought to you by your friends at Fram. The filter itself is a slightly improved design over the Fram Extra Guard, but still uses the same filter element. It has a silicone anti-drainback valve, a quality pressure relief valve, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The big problem is that they are trying to cash in on the Slick 50 craze. They impregnate the filter element with bits of Teflon like that found in Slick 50. As with Slick 50, Teflon is a solid and does not belong in an engine. It cannot get into the parts of the engine that oil can and therefore does nothing. Also, as the filter gets dirty, it ends up filtering the Teflon right out. Dupont (the manufacturer of Teflon) does not recommend Teflon for use in internal combustion engines. Please do not waste your money on this filter.
 
I know I have had one and maybe two F**m filters fail on me in the past and have heard from numerous sources that they are not the best. Just heft one up and you can feel their lighter weight - that ain't because they are made of titanium, that's for sure.
 
That guy is just parroting information he got somwehere else, perpetuating the myth. Examine how the verbiage is couched in non-specific disparagement:

"one of the worst out there." Yeah, right along with some of other worst out there.

"sometimes not molded correctly" Like what 2 of the 10 he looked at or 2% of the 10 million Fram made last year?

There's more examples, but it is clear to me from reading his words he is just a Fram hater, perpetuating the myth.

I prefer Wix. Good compromise in quality and cost across all the lines, and they still make some really odd old ones I need that are hard to find.
 
Ace said:
The Fram story is a myth as well. They may be marginally more expensive on the high end, but their good filters are just as good as the other's good filters and their cheap filters are just as bad as the other's cheap filters.

The Fram myth has been perpetuated basically due to volume. With the lion's share of the market for many years, it was only logical that more filter failures were attributed to Fram than other brands. Once the myth ball gets rolling, it's darn near impossible to stop.
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supposedly the hp series of fram's are good, but i will still use wix who did silicone anti-drainback valves before all others. all napa and carquest filter are made by wix as well. i guess to each their own.
 
I'm considering investing in a set of Schubeck lifters. Expensive but potentially cheaper than a roller setup, no break-in required (don't have to worry about cooking my new headers or wiping the cam), no worries about zinc levels in oils.
 
Why, a lifter is still a lifter, its just machined better and made better but what about the camshaft ? I think it still could use the zinc. Those lifters are $$$, that extra money could buy alot of good racing motor oil. The racing motor oil will be better for the rest of the engine, bearings, pistons.

Just because if you use a roller cam --or high buck lifters--and the cam does not get wipe out, doesn't mean the rest of the engine would not have had less wear if you had used a oil high in zinc.. Zinc is good stuff for everything in the motor, crank, bearings even oil pump. It have less wear most likely by just using a good name brand racing oil. Cost 2x as much and it last 3-4 months. Thats $25 pre oil change, a small price for less wear everywhere.

Of course some oil company's are going to say your motor does not need zinc, but the real racing motors that use roller cams, they still use zinc racing oil.
 
I've never really explored this option before, but what is involved in changing to a roller motor?
 
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