How to get my car into 12 seconds?

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74scamp360

74scamp360

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Elora, Ontario, Canada
Alright guys and gals, just looking for some input/ opinions right now on what you think it'll take to get my car into 12 seconds on the 1/4 mile. Now i'll start off by saying this, i'm 17 and work a part time job and am still in highschool full time so the budget is very very limited. So unfortunatly at this point bore/ stroking is out of the question, i just don't have the $$. My car is a 74 scamp and i'm in the middle of doing the /6 to 360 swap, i can't tell you for sure what year the 360 is, i can't read any of the ID on the sides of the block but i'd be really suprised if it was making much more then 8-5 comp. I know it's from the 70's, i'm guessing later on. Transmission type hasn't been decided yet, i have both a 904 and 727 that are being looked at by a friend of mine and we're going to use the one that looks better mechanically. 8 3/4 rear with a ratio like 3.55 3.91 max (this car will live most of it's life on the street with a little track time so needs to be street friendly as well). So basically what do i need to do to get it into the 12 second area? I know it could really use a set of heads but aftermarkets are not in the budget and by the time i get a set of j's ported and polished and valve job i'm not too far behind the aftermakets so...... Basicaly right now i'd like to know what i can do with what i have and some fairly minor mods.( cam, headers etc. etc.) Also i have no idea where to go in respect to a converer, any ideas??? Who is a good company to look at for converters?? Thanks in advance guys i really appretiate your input!!!!
 
It,ll be fairly hard to get in the 12,s without spending some dough on the 360.You have to find out what year the motor is,and maybe pull a head to see if it,s stock(pistons)or a rebuilt motor.I have a 2500 stall I,m gonna sell,that has about 600 miles on it.(904).Atleast start with a compression test on all cylinders.Good Luck.
 
thanks man, ya i figured that it would be fairly hard to get going that fast but i don't know, atleast i have a goal right. I've tried to figure out what year it is and i can read the 7 but the number after it is just like a big blotch, literally, could be a 3 or an 8?? Then i looked on the ID plate just above the oil pan lip and i couldn't read it, motor has been painted too many times. I guess i'll see what tranny i end up going with and i might take you up on that offer but we'll see, who is it made by?
 
I've got 2 ideas that will get you in the 12's without spending a fortune. The first idea involves a 440 and I can almost guarantee that your dad will disown you (so maybe forget that). The second is a nitrous kit. If you only use it sparingly, the 360 might last until you save enough to build a nice stroker.
 
Welll being in the same boat... broke and young haha I get what your saying. Going faster is pretty simple.. more power to the car or less car to the power... So cheapest way is drop everything you dont need or care about. Its cheaper to throw stuff off then add it on. Heater,ac,spare tire, all that kinda stuff if you dont mind, This would be the less car to the power.
Then the side of things is more power, If it were me I would toss a 440 in it.
It sounds like your just starting the build and this is the time to decide.
you can pick up a good 440 and trans fairly cheap and it would cost much less to get into the 12's. any mild cam,intake,carb 440 can get into 12's very cheap but thats just me. If you go the small block route I think it will take a little more motor, if I built a 360 non stroked I would go 10.5 compression,decent pistons,solid cam in the 550+ lift cam,roller rockers mite do it. Good luck to yah either way!!!
 
On a low compresion engine, you'll have to make up for the difference else where, since comprsion is needed for the big cam needed to run the time.

A hi stall verter and 4.30 would be helpful.
Try a splt duration cam with the intake at approx 240*'s.
 
choices are kinda limited since everything your gonna need is what you dont want to do lol...more gear would definatly help, as would compression, a nice sized cam, and a good converter....I think a cam like what rumble spec'd roughly, a 4.10 gear with a good tire and converter (not sure on stall), 650-750 carb, headers and an air gap should get you there- you'll need some lightenening as well imo to be sure since like hamesdart said its cheap...Also if i was you, look at suspension as well...some tricks you can do there to help hook that shouldnt cost much i.e. springs, keepin those /6 t bars up front, some adjustable shocks or worn out ones in the front for weight transfer, etc.

Im young and poor like you so i know what you mean...as far as bigblock goes, yes its cool, but id go lowdeck if i did a bigblock...imo not much room with a BB in an abody and depending on if you can live with it or not it may not be right for you...and i used to think that smallblocks were hard to make these things go fast- lately i have been seeing alot of stock stroke 340 and 360 builds that are pretty simple and turning some good numbers, so dont underestimate the LA

im sure more knowledgable guys will chime in here

p.s. for converters there is a place by me called markham converters...call and talk to ernie...my buddy with an 800hp nitrous chevelle runs one their converters for years with no problems yet
 
It wouldn't be street friendly, but, a whole lot of rear gear, a whole lot of converter, valve springs that can deal with it, and take all the weight you can out of it.
Compromise is a b**ch.
 
I would drop the bottle on it, throw a 100-125 at it & you will see 12s i'm sure.
 
Purchase a mopar performance engine manual &mp chassis manual it will tell you what you need to get in to the 12 second range if you follow it to a tee it will work manicin racing or jegs has them 20 something each you are going to get alot of opinons and alot of wrong answers those books havent failed me yet i have had several 360 engines over the years stay in the high 12 range for more street abilty
 
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable car to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable care to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
Click to expand...

Agreed...I'm a 21 year college student and I have trouble even affording my 17 second slant-six racing obsession (even though I have been pretty successful and have won a few thousand dollars) . I would have no life if I was able to get my car down to 12 seconds. Take my advice, run your car as is, have a life, and realize that you have all of your life to get that beast down to 12 seconds. I have spent much of my youth (16-21) not working on the Dart too much, but chasing some track championships. Sure it's cool to be recognized for that stuff, but I did miss out on a social life for a while.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable care to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
Click to expand...

With nitrous you could have both?
No? :-D
All jokes aside, a really great comment Formula, and how true.
 
Pull the pan (I think you have to replace anyway if it's out of a truck and has the rear sump) and replace the oil pump with a HV unit and stick a windage tray in it. Stick a Comp XE268 cam, new timing set, and Comp's 901-16 springs in the 360 you have. Replace the valve seals while you're there and you'll need 8 spring retainers from a 318 to replace the exh valve rotators on the 360. Replace the head gaskets with the MP thin ones. Get your hands on a 340/360 Edelbrock Performer intake (swap meet/ebag should be under $125) and a Holley 3310 (750cfmVS). Stick a single light advance spring in the distributor and have a muffler shop with a Mig welder weld up the slots to limit the centrifical advance to less than 16°. Get a set of cheapie 1 5/8 headers and a decent 2 1/2" dual exh system. Stick a Mancini 2200 convertor in front of whatever tranny you use, and stick a shift kit in the trans too. Run the 3.91 gear and a 28" tire. Depending on the rear, with paint and tune up stuff, buying all new parts except the intake... Should cost about $3000 total. Best thing... you can do it in stages as time and budget allow. Motor's out.. so do the windage tray, head gaskets, and headers with exhaust first. Run whatever intake, cam and stuff is in it. Do the shift kit. Do the rear swap. Then do the cam, intake, carb. Then do the convertor. First part $900-ish. Second part $70. Third part $900-ish(buying a complete running 8 3/4 w/brakes and spring plates and 3.91s, plus install with new brakes and seals) Fourth part $800-ish. Fifth part $400-ish.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable car to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
Click to expand...

LOL this made me piss myself laughing...but in reality dude, you have to decide...i know plenty of guys running faster than 12 second cars who have more than one girl a week touching them, and they are all around your age too...in my opinion, girls arent gonna like your car whether its 14 or 10 sec fast- it doesnt have a sunroof, power windows, smells, is loud, doesnt have ac (if thats you), etc...in reality most girls cant get there head around that **** since they are so dumb, and those are the ones you use for touching and thats it so build yourself whatever you want lol...chances are the chicks will like you better when your 12 second scamp gives a lickin to a new mustang than when its so slow its taking it in the *** from a civic:toothy10:

moper said:
Pull the pan (I think you have to replace anyway if it's out of a truck and has the rear sump) and replace the oil pump with a HV unit and stick a windage tray in it. Stick a Comp XE268 cam, new timing set, and Comp's 901-16 springs in the 360 you have. Replace the valve seals while you're there and you'll need 8 spring retainers from a 318 to replace the exh valve rotators on the 360. Replace the head gaskets with the MP thin ones. Get your hands on a 340/360 Edelbrock Performer intake (swap meet/ebag should be under $125) and a Holley 3310 (750cfmVS). Stick a single light advance spring in the distributor and have a muffler shop with a Mig welder weld up the slots to limit the centrifical advance to less than 16°. Get a set of cheapie 1 5/8 headers and a decent 2 1/2" dual exh system. Stick a Mancini 2200 convertor in front of whatever tranny you use, and stick a shift kit in the trans too. Run the 3.91 gear and a 28" tire. Depending on the rear, with paint and tune up stuff, buying all new parts except the intake... Should cost about $3000 total. Best thing... you can do it in stages as time and budget allow. Motor's out.. so do the windage tray, head gaskets, and headers with exhaust first. Run whatever intake, cam and stuff is in it. Do the shift kit. Do the rear swap. Then do the cam, intake, carb. Then do the convertor. First part $900-ish. Second part $70. Third part $900-ish(buying a complete running 8 3/4 w/brakes and spring plates and 3.91s, plus install with new brakes and seals) Fourth part $800-ish. Fifth part $400-ish.
Click to expand...

This is definatly a very very good plan, something i would seriously consider following too
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable car to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
Click to expand...

This bar none is the most wacked reply I have ever seen.
 
oh and one thing i forgot...if a girl leaves you for workin on the car too much shes junk anyways...like a friend once told me when i was very very young...the difference between a girlfriend and car is that one morning the girl might be gone, but the car will still be in the driveway! dont ever forget it man! lol
 
Lots of good recommendations here, but one thing nobody mentioned. One of the first things I always do, is discard the factory 5/16 fuel line from the tank, all the way to the engine.

I think it is the biggest overlooked restriction with a lot of projects.
 
I had a combo that won't get you in the 12's, but is a great place to start and was a lot of fun. This was a 360 with the smallest purple shaft they made. I believe it was a 268/272 split duration. Have a valve job done on the best set of stock heads you can find add the correct springs and have them shaved 30. Windage tray, LD340 or another good used intake, carb of your choice 600-750 CFM, I got lucky and a very good TQ 800. The intake could be a pain to get installed. This was a great combo in my 72 Duster with a 323 and 4 speed. Ran 9 sec flat in the 1/8 and got 18 mpg. Took this car on a few 600+ mile trips.

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! It just hit me. That was 22 years ago!
 
hemied said:
Lots of good recommendations here, but one thing nobody mentioned. One of the first things I always do, is discard the factory 5/16 fuel line from the tank, all the way to the engine.

I think it is the biggest overlooked restriction with a lot of projects.
Click to expand...

if he's running a stock style pump i think the stock fuel line is more than adequate...its just more money the guy probably doesnt want to (nor has to) spend
 
hemied said:
Lots of good recommendations here, but one thing nobody mentioned. One of the first things I always do, is discard the factory 5/16 fuel line from the tank, all the way to the engine.

I think it is the biggest overlooked restriction with a lot of projects.
Click to expand...

While it's my fav up-grade to do, for the fuel system, a 5/16's line will do well for 12 seconds. Even with a high vol. fuel pump added in, high 11's have been done with that size line.
 
mshred said:
if he's running a stock style pump i think the stock fuel line is more than adequate...its just more money the guy probably doesnt want to (nor has to) spend
Click to expand...


rumblefish360 said:
While it's my fav up-grade to do, for the fuel system, a 5/16's line will do well for 12 seconds. Even with a high vol. fuel pump added in, high 11's have been done with that size line.
Click to expand...

Well you guys are in agreement on this, but Mother Mopar saw fit to put 3/8 on cars that would not run 12s from the factory. :dontknow:
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Do you like girls?

Seriously…. Do you like girls?


Let me clue you in……. You are 17, part time job and live at home. You don't need a car that runs in the 12s.

What you do need is a reliable car to take a girl out in.

Change your game plan, my friend. Be happy with a nice reliable mid 14.

Things that will make a girl find a new guy……. You working on your car all the time. You never having any money because of your car.

It all comes down to this……….

You can run 12s and touch yourself.

or

You can run 14s and be touched.
Click to expand...

AHHH HA HA HA!!! Crazy reply right there!!! It definitely is a wacky one...
 
mshred said:
oh and one thing i forgot...if a girl leaves you for workin on the car too much shes junk anyways...like a friend once told me when i was very very young...the difference between a girlfriend and car is that one morning the girl might be gone, but the car will still be in the driveway! dont ever forget it man! lol
Click to expand...

Amen!!!
 
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