1964 Valiant wheel allignment

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ivo

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Hi , i've restaured my 64 valiant convertible complete and now i need to get the front wheels alligned , now in the book the caster and camber are in degrees and the toe-in in inches , now the guy with the allignment machine needs everything in degrees to put it in his computer , is there anybody who have the allignments in degrees , the valiant is a 170cu with 3speed manual and manual steering ,
Thanks in advance , Ivo
 
Check for a sticky thread in the suspension forum. There is a SKOSH chart thread there with alignment specs.
 
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Question, is the skosh chart listed for bias plys or radials?
 
Hi , i've restaured my 64 valiant convertible complete and now i need to get the front wheels alligned , now in the book the caster and camber are in degrees and the toe-in in inches , now the guy with the allignment machine needs everything in degrees to put it in his computer , is there anybody who have the allignments in degrees , the valiant is a 170cu with 3speed manual and manual steering ,
Thanks in advance , Ivo
Personally, I would try to find a shop with a tech that knows the old cars, and not just plug stuff into a computer.
 
Personally, I would try to find a shop with a tech that knows the old cars, and not just plug stuff into a computer.
EXACTLY! When I purchased my Demon the seller said he had it aligned and it still drove so bad he was scared to drive it. That was a huge reason he sold it. When I looked at the papers from the tire shop that aligned it, they had entered a late model Ram/SRT/Demon in the computer and didn't even hit those specs!

The SKOSH chart is for radial tires.

I have a Fastrax alignment tool which I have used on a Factory Five Racing Cobra, 51 GMC with mustang II front suspension, a 54 Chevy 210 and my 71 Demon. Every car has driven straight with no tire wear after I have aligned them. I use a tight string to get the rears and front tires parallel and a tape measure for toe-in...which is perfect cause it is in inches!
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I’ve had a heck of a time finding an alignment shop the said they could align my ‘66 . It seems that all the shops only have new equipment that require open rear wheel openings so they can use their equipment.
I did find a shop the said they could align my ‘66 … well they managed to get it aligned … But they failed to tighten the upper control arm adjusters ! So that was a waste of time and money .

What’s that you say ? Why didn’t you take it back ? Well I made it home no problem, then started to pull trim and bumpers head lights grill tail lights etc. to prepare it for the body shop for paint . Well they weren’t ready for months so the Dart sat and waited finally got into the shop almost a year later , then the body shop jail , finally I got to bring it home and noticed it was pulling to the right .
I put it on the lift and found the upper control arms loose Grrrrr !

So that’s where it sits then life got in the way . One of these days I’ll get back to it .
 
In general.....front upper bushing out as much as possible, rear bushing in as far as possible. That moves the upper bj as far back as possible and gives you best high speed stability. At least that's what I have found. Obviously have it done professionally asap.
 
EXACTLY! When I purchased my Demon the seller said he had it aligned and it still drove so bad he was scared to drive it. That was a huge reason he sold it. When I looked at the papers from the tire shop that aligned it, they had entered a late model Ram/SRT/Demon in the computer and didn't even hit those specs!

The SKOSH chart is for radial tires.

I have a Fastrax alignment tool which I have used on a Factory Five Racing Cobra, 51 GMC with mustang II front suspension, a 54 Chevy 210 and my 71 Demon. Every car has driven straight with no tire wear after I have aligned them. I use a tight string to get the rears and front tires parallel and a tape measure for toe-in...which is perfect cause it is in inches!
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That's why the guy needs the right set-up , he has'nt the model in his register ,
 
machine operator is an idiot. When I did alignments I could set up inches or degrees, or fractional/decimal, by pushing a few buttons. My co workers would get mad at me, we had 2 identical Hunter alignment machines and our previous machine was set up solely in fractional degrees instead of decimal degrees. i usually worked the 3-9 and weekends, as soon as the morning guys would leave at 3:30 I would change units on the machine I was gonna use that night and then I'd get a nasty gram the next time I worked. I was used to fractions from both my schooling and the old machines the Hunters had replaced..... so I switched them to those units. and no matter what kind of car/truck I looked up they would come up in fractional degrees. He should be able to set his machine to come up in any such units he wants. so the machine would do the conversions.
 
Strange that he requires toe-in in degrees since inches (or mm) is more common. Surely the manual for his alignment machine gives a conversion or might even be in the software. In general, you want as much caster as possible, to allow radial tires. That is the shopping-cart effect. Your car was designed for bias-ply tires which deflect the tire-patch backwards. For radials, you want to move where the projected line thru the ball joints hits the road forward. Push the front bushing pivot of the upper-control arm as far out as possible and pull the aft one inward. That will move the upper ball joint center as far aft as you can. Moog offset bushings make this easier, but ignore their instructions which are to correct bent parts from an accident. That simultaneously affects camber (how tires lean in at top). Aftermarket adjustable tubular upper-control arms make it easiest. You can't adjust where the lower ball joint sits since the strut rod allows no adjustments.

Camber is kind of a personal choice. Some get carried away, with the tops of the tires leaning far inward, for better cornering. Rice-tuners go crazy, even using curved motorcycle-like tires. Your car actually spec'ed the tires leaning slightly outward at top (positive camber). Straight-up isn't bad to improve tread-wear, but most set slight negative camber.

Toe-in is the most critical for handling and tire wear. RWD should set slight toe-in since the wheels rotate outward slightly when driving, depending on how much play in suspension and steering (want them exactly parallel when driving). I set 1/16" toe-in with new tight parts, or 1/8" if slight play. I use a tape measure across front and aft sides of the front wheels, which is easiest if the tread has straight channels. I also hold a straight-edge along a front tire and sight at the rear. Easier for FWD where you set slight toe-out since your sight then should hit slightly inward on the rear tire (1st channel), assuming the track width is the same for fronts and rears. Too much toe-in will quickly wear the inside tread. Even a little toe-out while driving will cause the car to wander.
 
Left and right caster are not the same, do not remember if camber is different. Letting go of an old cars wheel, the car should drive itself straight.
 
I just bought this because I cant get a place near me to do a good alignment on anything and they charge 80 bucks.
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I have an old Snap-On drive on "rack" that uses air bags to raise the car to level. Snap-On turn plates, and Hunter mechanical caster/camber/toe gauges. However I don't have it set up. Don't have a place for it, inside, and the ground is too sandy, outside.
PS: I would sell it cheap, if anyone interested. Would require a large trailer or truck. If interested send a message.
 
Hi , i've restaured my 64 valiant convertible complete and now i need to get the front wheels alligned , now in the book the caster and camber are in degrees and the toe-in in inches , now the guy with the allignment machine needs everything in degrees to put it in his computer , is there anybody who have the allignments in degrees , the valiant is a 170cu with 3speed manual and manual steering ,
Thanks in advance , Ivo
make sure you got a good thrust angle, no pun intended !!
 
Left and right caster are not the same, do not remember if camber is different. Letting go of an old cars wheel, the car should drive itself straight.
This is because of crowned roads, something that varies locally
 
I just bought this because I cant get a place near me to do a good alignment on anything and they charge 80 bucks.
That is why I started doing front-end alignments on my vehicles myself. Many reports from people who have worked as alignment tech's that many shops just bump the laser reflectors around until they get green readings on the machine for a clean printout, rather than actually make any adjustments on the car. So, your car drives out the same way it came in.

Caster would be hard to measure, but we can't get enough anyway on our cars with the factory adjusters, unless using bias-ply tires. I measure camber by holding a carpenter's level vertical against a tire, measure from ruler to rim at top and bottom and aim for slight lean-in (~1/8"). As mentioned, use a little more lean-in on right side to counter road camber if you drive a lot on 2-lane highways. For toe-in, I need a helper to hold the tape measure on a tire groove. I go as high up on the aft side while still clearing underbody stuff, then same height when measuring across the front. I tweak the adjusters until 1/16" less across fwd side. Drive around the block and bounce the front, then re-measure. Check if the steering wheel is centered when driving. Usually 2 passes to get it perfect. Best to set the front tires on slippery vinyl tiles so they rotate easy with the adjusters. Even 1/4 turn of a tie-rod adjuster makes a measurable difference on the tape measure (say 1/16"), so wonder how a laser-machine could do better.

Don't jack the front up by the frame since that changes toe-in. Indeed, that is why toe-in changes over time. As the springs sag and the front lowers, you will get toe-out which makes the car wander. That is likely why people find old cars undriveable. Easy fix in our cars, just raise the front to factory spec (or what you want), using the T-bar adjusters, then adjust toe-in. On the same note, if you do raise the ride height, that likely greatly increased toe-in. If you don't adjust it, your front tires will wear out very quickly. I made that mistake decades ago in my 1969 Dart, wearing out a set of new tires in just a 100 mile drive.
 
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