1974 Brain Box saves the day.

[George Jets]

Here is some great info on the internal TO220 and external T03 Transistors

So in comparison the TO220 is what Standard Products LX100 module is using in their new builds, exact copy to the one pictured above here on the left.
The Mopar Brain Boxes used the TO3 pictured here 3rd from the left, that had much better heat dissipation and larger surface areas to absorb the heat.

Pictured below the New Build LX100 that uses the smaller TO220 transistor, with the lesser heat dissipating capabilities.

 

[halifaxhops]

Great info going on here.

 

[George Jets]

I sure like the idea of these aftermarket better cooling heat sinks. Would like to look into modifying them to install on Brain Boxes for "Super Cooling" of the internal or external transistors.

Like installing a bigger radiator in your Big Block cars to get the heat out . . .

VS this below:

 

[halifaxhops]

Ever see the mounts on a e body? Takes it away from the firewall.

 

[halifaxhops]

 

[George Jets]

View attachment 1715621936

OK, this ^^^^^ makes perfect sense. Get the backside air flow opened up so that it cools better. Good Find !

 

[halifaxhops]

Easy to make also. Makes a lot of sense to me. No idea why just Cudas.

 

[halifaxhops]

Need @Stephen Hotz in this.

 

[pishta]

Let me back up a little: We know the case is the ground path. We know the heatsink of transitor is pin 2, the collector. What the transistor does as a switch is to bridge (or make resistance very low) the collector to the emitter via a trigger at the base. In a coil igniton, we are bridging the ground path from the coil negative to ground (which is just the other side of the positive coil terminal). There is something called back-emf, that needs to be quelled to prevent transistor damage by a few diodes wired head to head. We need to get @KitCarlson to chime in on this theory of operation. To me, it sounds like the case has always been electrically active as the ground path, but the heatsink is isolated from the heatsink /collector of the transistor itself for some reason. Maybe the earlier ones had painted cases for insulation from touching them but its still a ground, you can sit all day with your hands on the ground terminal of the battery and not feel anything. Perhaps we should just focus on the heatsink aspect and not try and re-engineer the operation of this.

 

[George Jets]

Sounds good, focus on the heat sink.

I know if you can keep them cool the electricity flows better and keeps them from burning out and failing.

Have seen on Desktop Computers where they have actually used dry ice -200° to cool the computer's main chip and achieve some crazy fast clock speeds out of them.

Think this is true too for Super Conductors, the cooler they run the better the electricity flows.

So yeah, will see if we can go about a few better ways to pull the heat out of the Ignition Control Modules.

What is surprising to me is the new aftermarket units work, but it is looking like the internal heat is making them fail.

Heading out to the shop now to cut open this next (hot transistor) brain box and see how it differs from other new builds.

 

[George Jets]

OK got this 4 pin control module cut open, looks to me like an old school board from the '70s.

Probably just some old stock box.

The external transistor mount bolts were well insulated from the box with large plastic washers, with the 2 prong transistor plugging into the board from the top.

 

[George Jets]

Well for starters a person could mount the new control modules flat to the inner fenders or firewall, run the vehicle for a half an hour. Then take a temperature reading with an infra red heat test gun at the external heat sink.

Then switch the module's mount over to the Stand Off Bracket that @halofaxhopp is showing us for a better cooling mount for the module. Fire up the vehicle again and run for another 1/2 hour and do another heat test to the heat sink with the infra red test gun.

I am betting there will be a lower temp showing on the 2nd test because of the open back letting the heat out.

Would think a 15° lesser heat reading could be the difference of the module going for a long time, vs a failure at the higher temp.

Other external cooling steps could be accomplished by adding more additional surface area to the existing external heat sinks, to help radiate off more heat from the unit.

A couple simple steps before having to go inside the control modules.

Looking for reliability here on my part first and foremost. Pulling the heat out could keep them below the failure threshold.

 

[DARTLARRY]

Recently purchased this unit from Jegs, it lasted about 50 miles before it gave up. It did seem to run better when it did work.

 

[George Jets]

Recently purchased this unit from Jegs, it lasted about 50 miles before it gave up. It did seem to run better when it did work.

View attachment 1715622120

Those seem to be some of the worst ones, the ones with the Tall Standing "Top Hat" empty transistor case with the long fine thread machine screws holding it on. Also they have the single layer gold heat sinks too, those are the cheep built ones.

I am looking for this style pictured below, with the shorter wider Top Hat working transistor, held in by short course threaded screws, and the thermally conductive insulating thin sheet between the the 2 pieces of the 2 part gold heat sink. Better yet if the Top Hat transistor has the manufacture's printing on the top of them, that tells you that it is a real working transistor and not a fake one like the taller narrower ones. These are the better ones if you can actually find them.

Have been able to find this style in the New Old Stock that is out there also.

 

[Mattax]

This is great research George.
A lot digital multimeters have a pre-calibrated thermocouple set up. May be K type IIRC. Advantage is you may already have one and eliminates the emissivity variable inherent in the more basic IR thermometers.

 

[George Jets]

This is great research George.
A lot digital multimeters have a pre-calibrated thermocouple set up. May be K type IIRC. Advantage is you may already have one and eliminates the emissivity variable inherent in the more basic IR thermometers.

I really like the idea of the small Mopar Brain Boxes that you can hold in the palm of your hand to run your complete engine. Either they are working or they are not, trying to figure out the failure points so they are much more reliable.

Just like the idea of these so much to have a simple engine ignition system, unlike the new cars and all their on dash engine warning lights, auto shutdown relays, and the list goes on and on for being complicated and hard and expensive to diagnose. Then there are the transmission computers and the "body control modules" on the new cars too that can make your life a living hell when they start to act up from heat, corrosion and time. I know people that had to junk out their car cause the body control module went bad and could not get a correct replacement for it.

So yeah I like old school simpler stuff that you can replace one or two inexpensive parts and be on your way again. I even have a new Reman Points Distributor that I can easily drop in my daily driver truck if I want "Real Simple", also use the Points Distributor on the Engines that go on the Engine Run Stand, less things to go wrong on first start ups.

Everyone is getting tired of the China aftermarket parts poor quality, so figure we all need to step up and figure this out and get things made correctly.

USA . . .

 

[Krooser]

Currently I dont own a Mopar that uses those old boxes BUT I have a vintage blue Standard deal that looks cruddy but ran when parked and its unlikely I will ever toss it
.
Just in case!

 

[George Jets]

@pishta
You were talking about the ground leg for the transistors and or the brain board on the control modules.

Here is a tab that has soldered wires to the brain board, also has a step in the fastening end that holds up the TO220 transistor firmly in place.

The fastening end of that tab bolts on inside to one of the small screws that hold on the empty "Top Hat" transistor housing.

So yes this supplies ground to the main board and is mechanically fastened to the case.

That internal TO220 resistor is fastened better than i first thought, but still insulated from the case with the thermal insulation tape.

Anyhow the TO220 is being mechanically held up into the thermal insulating compound and thinking this is as about as good as it gets for the heat transfer to the outside.

So looking at improving the external heat sinks with more surface area. And also build one step up bracket for the back mount out of aluminum stock, so the back can breath and transfer heat into the aluminum stepup bracket at the same time.

Heat Sinks both top and bottom pulling the heat out of the unt before it gets to be a problem.

 

[pishta]

See that diode? Black component on board. I bet thats directly hooked up to emitter (pin 3) for back-emf protection. So it looks as if the flow to ground is from the collector to the emitter just by the way the band is pointing. You can really make the entire case an isolated heat sink if you make a dedicated ground strap off pin 2 and isolate the TO-220 heat sink (also pin 2) off the case by the mica insulator that way it can still pass heat to the case but it won't be conductive to the case. The TO-220F is a plastic insulated heat sink model of the TO-220

 

[Mike69cuda]

This was a discussion on these e body mounting plates awhile back. They have no thermal function. They are only used to adapt the mounting holes from the module to the car.

 

[halifaxhops]

I have to ask this what is every ones electronics backgrounds? I was a Avionics shop Chief in the USAF for 18 years. Back when I started we actually repaired the internal board in the boxes. Bet we have some serious knowledge here on this thread

 

[George Jets]

I have 5 years in the computer service business, owning my own business. Associated with 5 other very talented computer and networking techs.

Dealing with all kinds of harware issues. Complete tear downs and build back up of laptop and desktop computers. Doing lots of performance upgrades to make things run faster, solid state hard drives, lots of memory upgrades, addition cooling. Custom built 5 display computers for the Day Trader industry.

All software operating systems, Windows and Linux. Lots of software application installs. Lots of debugging, virus removal, better security layouts.

Wifi, on desktop, latops, in home wifi, wifi routers and security. Handling and setting up performance built overclocked wifi routers that were built with additional heat sinks (like our mopar brain boxes are going to be getting) and reflashed with linux dd-wrt firmware.

Wifi over land, sending out and catching the signals. Also worked with the WiMax professional internet service people in my local area.

Helping end users get set up with all types of internet access, starting with dial up, dsl, cable, wimax, fiber optics, then the mobile hot spots too.

Doing lots of service work here in the South Twin Cities area, then through word of mouth was doing remote access service to people all over our country, had 250 people and businesses on remote acess alone.

This was kind of nice cause when I went to the warmer climate locations for the winters I could keep working servicing my remote access customers, and keep the business going.

Not to mention our automobile's 3 onboard computer systems, sensors, and basic diagnostics. These can be some real cans of worms, leading me back to the simpler times of the mopar brain boxes and the first electronic ignition systems of the '70s.

Have had my head under the hoods of cars my whole life, studying how and why they run, basically out of necessity to keep things running. Oddly enough this provided me with the knowledge and how to skills to understand and service today's home and business computers.

Running my '76 D100 Dodge pickup daily driver, with the mopar electronic ignition and mopar brain box. This is keeping me "Future Proof", this simple layout is very easy to keep it all going for years and years to come.

Thanks for everyone's input on the mopar Ignition Control Modules, hoping we can all get to the point where we can bring the reliability way way up.

Nice simple layout, like that a lot !

 

[halifaxhops]

Be interesting to pool the knowledge and make something.

 

[George Jets]

Be interesting to pool the knowledge and make something.

Totally agree with this ^^^^.

As far as I know Rev-N-Nator has stopped production on their brain boxes.

Maybe a person can pick up the ball where they left off and just build a simple standard brain box without all the rev limiting choices that are adding more avenues for failures.

Just a simple good working electronic control module is what I would like to see.

 

[halifaxhops]

Basically they are just a signal amplifier like I use on the sun machines. I do like the gm 4 pins. I actually use one on one of my distributor machines for electronic ignition.