Hey Steve, I looked at the pick of the cam again, if it were me I would put a little more assembly lube on those lobes. Can't be too careful when it comes to the new cam.
273 questions...a few of them
- Thread starter 4spdragtop
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4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
10-4 Bruce, good idea!! We also are soaking the timing chain in oil
65Val
Average Length Member
Steve...do you have a clearer pic of the lifters (from the top), from post #84? I'm not sure, but I think I see something weird.
1 LIFTERS When I spoke with you a few days ago, I mentioned this. The PHOTO of the two lifters APPEARS that possibly the pushrod seat height (NOT the overall height) may be different
2 VALVES WHY are the valve stem heights different?
If the pushrod height in the new lifters COMBINED with the different valve stem height COMBINED with the different height of the retainers seems to me could be causing bind, IE the rockers hitting something there. These types of things could add up to why you had to change the adjusters so much
There's only one thing to do, now, in my mind -- get yourself some lightweight springs (down at the hardware store) that you can push with your finger. Assemble the no1 valves with these light springs, leave all other pushrods out, and go carefully through a complete engine cycle (2 crank turns) and check for rocker, pushrod, spring binding, and piston to valve clearance.
You don't HAVE to use a dial indicator, if you don't have one, to check valve clearance. It's a PITA, but you can use feelers in the valve/ rocker to see what you have.
2 VALVES WHY are the valve stem heights different?
If the pushrod height in the new lifters COMBINED with the different valve stem height COMBINED with the different height of the retainers seems to me could be causing bind, IE the rockers hitting something there. These types of things could add up to why you had to change the adjusters so much
There's only one thing to do, now, in my mind -- get yourself some lightweight springs (down at the hardware store) that you can push with your finger. Assemble the no1 valves with these light springs, leave all other pushrods out, and go carefully through a complete engine cycle (2 crank turns) and check for rocker, pushrod, spring binding, and piston to valve clearance.
You don't HAVE to use a dial indicator, if you don't have one, to check valve clearance. It's a PITA, but you can use feelers in the valve/ rocker to see what you have.
65Val
Average Length Member
67...thats what I was thinking in my last post. The pic is blurry, BUT, the lifter on the right appears to be a hydraulic lifter (clip holding the plunger in the body). They have a different height at the point where the solid pushrod is inserted into the lifter. This will cause the valve touching that seems to be happening.
Steve...get one of the pushrods, insert it into each lifter and measure the overall height..pushrod + lifter. I think you're going to find the lifter and pushrod on the right has a higher total, combined height than the one on the left.
Steve...get one of the pushrods, insert it into each lifter and measure the overall height..pushrod + lifter. I think you're going to find the lifter and pushrod on the right has a higher total, combined height than the one on the left.
Bulldozer
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exactly my thoughts, why would a solid lifter have a retaining clip, if there was no plunger. thats the main reason i was suggesting Steve get a pushrod and try to plunge the lifter. unless these "new" solid lifters have a solid insert that is retained with a clip.
65Val
Average Length Member
Even from the side, the lifter on the right appears to be a hydraulic one.
Bulldozer
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and from the pic ,like you guys mention, it also appears that the pushrod seat is a shallower in the lifter than the one on the left. but, even if the lifter is a hydraulic, wouldnt it absorb any length
65Val
Average Length Member
Not if they were soaked in oil and "pumped up". You're talking about ~1/4" - 3/8" difference between hyds. and solids. Multiply that by 1.5 rocker ratio and you can see where you're gonna get valves touching the piston.
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
I will try to get better pics, but....when you put a pushrod in each, the height is identical. Gonna chk the box the lifters came in as well to make sure they werent miss packaged or something....
This is something you have probably already looked at but make sure the rocker arm isn't hitting the valve spring retainer. The different installed spring height is a little concerning. Hopefully the retainer isn't interfering with the rocker arm. If it is you may need a different length push rod. This shouldn't be an issue though since you were able to set the valves at 0.020. The more I think about it the more I'm like some of the previous post when it comes to the different crank sprocket settings. Retarding or advancing the timing 4 degrees shouldn't be enough to make a difference. I have used those different settings on race engines with a lot more compression and considerable more radical cams with no piston to valve clearance problems.
65Val
Average Length Member
Also, Steve, look around the outside of the lifter (right side one) and confirm there is no oil hole. Finding one will prove its a hydraulic lifter. Solids dont have them.
Bulldozer
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whats funny about all this is that this is being shown as a solid lifter....
COMP Cams 801-16 - COMP Cams Solid Lifters
65Val
Average Length Member
Doesn't make sense to me...why would you need an oil hole if its a solid lifter?
Maybe it is a mass production thing. Maybe they use the same lifter body for hydraulics and solids and then change the internals.
Exactly what I was referring to earlier.
Would it not need one for an engine that oils through the pushrod?
My first thought when Steve and I were talking is that he got hydraulics sent by mistake. In that case he would need shorter pushrods.
My first thought when Steve and I were talking is that he got hydraulics sent by mistake. In that case he would need shorter pushrods.
Bulldozer
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exactly? i dont get it either. maybe thats just one of those "one pic fits all" but they show different pics for different lifters, and they do show a solid lifter looking identical to the one on the right in Steves pic, but they dont show the lifter seat. the last cam kit i bought was a summit racing magnum grind 340/360 hydraulic just last year and my lifters look exactly like the one on the right.
65Val
Average Length Member
Could be, but still doesn't explain the clips. The one on the right definitely looks like your std, run-of-the-mill hydraulic lifter to me. The left is the same as the one that came out of my engine.
He could try putting an old lifter in the block and try setting the lash to see if it's back to normal.
Here's a pic of a solid lifter I have that is with an MP cam.
65Val
Average Length Member
OK, then. I've never seen that style before. I stand corrected.
Is that for a Magnum cam (engine)?
Nope, LA.
Bulldozer
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thats a new one on me as well. i didnt realize it is a snap ring and not a run of the mill retainer clip
It's beyond me why it's there, I never questioned it. I do know it's solid though as you couldn't plunge the thing with a sledge hammer, LOL.
Bulldozer
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interesting....
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