maybe why Tullus raced the dart back in the day??
273, the good points
- Thread starter 105 mad
- Start date
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Our resident "expert" owned again. Beautiful.
Nice little 66 road racer you're building, mph. Do you have a build thread on it here? Maybe you could post some more pictures somewhere.
Nice little 66 road racer you're building, mph. Do you have a build thread on it here? Maybe you could post some more pictures somewhere.
Hipo65
Yeah I'm "That Guy"
To actuly make useable power @7000 rpm it will require a cam that WILL get noticed! In our little 273's! & yes the 8 3/4 was first optional in 1965. I like the ford valves. idea,just a tutch biger without over doen it! Its real easy to "over do it" on the 273 man. My combo pulls hard from 2500-5300 rpm after that its just noise & power drops off fast. & That's a pretty a conservative cam that's in there too. i say build er man thease motors are underestimated if done correctly again do yer home work there easy to "over" do & make really week in the lower rpm range.
The D dart engine would be a good package to get there, IMO.
dibbons
Well-Known Member
I used the solid Isky 1012-C in my 1965 273 Bracket racer. It pulled strong thru the 6400 RPM trap speed, was always afraid to spin it any faster. Specs are advertised 312 duration and .580 lift. (idle speed at 1200 rpm sounded like a top fueler) Based on ET and MPH it was pumping around 310 horsepower.
A local guy built a "Cracker Box" (race boat with engine in front of the driver) and couldn't go above 300 CI.He used a 273. The race lasts 5 minutes at wide open throttle.Turning above 7000 rpm. Held up and worked for him.
We do that all the time here in Georgia. You should see my Double-Wide.
mph
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
Basic specs are...
EQ 318 heads (with lots of work)
CP forged Pistons 12/1
K1 rods
Racer Brown solid roller cam (smallish)
T&D rockers 1.7
Victor Jnr manifold 750 dp Holley
It made just under 480hp at 7500 and about 350 ft/lb
I've only just received the engine and will have more detailed specs soon.
CPDave
Spin Cycle
Hi 105 mad,
I vintage race a '66 Dart here on the United States East Coast. And I know Mike Ritz who campaigns the Team Starfish Barracuda out West. We're both running 318 based motors. In my case because the SVRA supplemental prep rules (that I wrote ;)
;[ame="http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chrysler_Corp-MoPar_64-66.pdf"]http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chrysler_Corp-MoPar_64-66.pdf[/ame] ) allow that, and in Mike's case, because the FIA 3.0 Holmologation (sp?) papers filed by Plymouth call out the 318 as the correct engine for the '66 Barracuda GT (really interesting reading those). However it is certainly possible to make adequate power with the 273. Some of the links provided above will help with that.
There's another user on here JTThttp://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/member.php?u=28986 Who has a FIA '66 Dart he's developing. He's currently building his 3rd 273 for it, so I'm sure he could provide some input.
What you really have to pay close attention to is the rule set you have to build to. What modifications does it allow and which does it forbid. Then there is the matter of how close to the edge you WANT to build the motor. Unlike drag racing, vintage road race motors have to withstand 20, 30, even 60 minute race sessions. What kind of fuel do you want it to burn, is another question. Race gas is great, but not cheap. The 0.050" over 318 in my Dart delivers 363 WHP on 93 octane pump gas.
Finally, depending on availability and rules, I'd be inclined to start the build with a 2 door Plymouth Valiant. They are lighter than the Barracuda, but enjoy the same shorter 106" wheel base, making it easier to get to a good static weight distribution.
Dave
I vintage race a '66 Dart here on the United States East Coast. And I know Mike Ritz who campaigns the Team Starfish Barracuda out West. We're both running 318 based motors. In my case because the SVRA supplemental prep rules (that I wrote ;)
;[ame="http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chrysler_Corp-MoPar_64-66.pdf"]http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chrysler_Corp-MoPar_64-66.pdf[/ame] ) allow that, and in Mike's case, because the FIA 3.0 Holmologation (sp?) papers filed by Plymouth call out the 318 as the correct engine for the '66 Barracuda GT (really interesting reading those). However it is certainly possible to make adequate power with the 273. Some of the links provided above will help with that.There's another user on here JTThttp://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/member.php?u=28986 Who has a FIA '66 Dart he's developing. He's currently building his 3rd 273 for it, so I'm sure he could provide some input.
What you really have to pay close attention to is the rule set you have to build to. What modifications does it allow and which does it forbid. Then there is the matter of how close to the edge you WANT to build the motor. Unlike drag racing, vintage road race motors have to withstand 20, 30, even 60 minute race sessions. What kind of fuel do you want it to burn, is another question. Race gas is great, but not cheap. The 0.050" over 318 in my Dart delivers 363 WHP on 93 octane pump gas.
Finally, depending on availability and rules, I'd be inclined to start the build with a 2 door Plymouth Valiant. They are lighter than the Barracuda, but enjoy the same shorter 106" wheel base, making it easier to get to a good static weight distribution.
Dave
Hi,
As Dave noted, I run a Dart '66 in the FIA historic races in Finland and Sweden. I got the car first time to the races last summer, and now the further development is going on. I destroyed 2 engines last summer due to oiling issues, so I built some experience on it
My cars runs in the FIA period G (1966-1971), which allows for some better parts than pre '66.
Now I have a new engine under construction. It's got a steel crank, stock rods and custom made pistons by Ross. Now I'm working on the cylinder heads and 4bbl intake manifold. These both are of the original cast iron type, as required by the FIA rules. Valves sizes are also the original 1.78" / 1.5". The camshaft is Comp 20-230-4. Caburettor is Holley 650 cfm and there are Doug's headers.
Actually I have no idea of the expected hp from my new engine, but I've seen a dyno sheet with 391 hp at crank from a similar build.
In addition to my Dart, in Finland there are two '65 Barracudas and one '65 Valiant in Historic Races, and one '66 Valiant doing Historic stage rallying. So, there is actually quite a lot of experience in running these Mopar beasts. Here's a link to the one of the Barracuda teams page: http://www.silverfishracing.fi
As Dave noted, I run a Dart '66 in the FIA historic races in Finland and Sweden. I got the car first time to the races last summer, and now the further development is going on. I destroyed 2 engines last summer due to oiling issues, so I built some experience on it
My cars runs in the FIA period G (1966-1971), which allows for some better parts than pre '66.
Now I have a new engine under construction. It's got a steel crank, stock rods and custom made pistons by Ross. Now I'm working on the cylinder heads and 4bbl intake manifold. These both are of the original cast iron type, as required by the FIA rules. Valves sizes are also the original 1.78" / 1.5". The camshaft is Comp 20-230-4. Caburettor is Holley 650 cfm and there are Doug's headers.
Actually I have no idea of the expected hp from my new engine, but I've seen a dyno sheet with 391 hp at crank from a similar build.
In addition to my Dart, in Finland there are two '65 Barracudas and one '65 Valiant in Historic Races, and one '66 Valiant doing Historic stage rallying. So, there is actually quite a lot of experience in running these Mopar beasts. Here's a link to the one of the Barracuda teams page: http://www.silverfishracing.fi
Very nice!
Hi,
As Dave noted, I run a Dart '66 in the FIA historic races in Finland and Sweden. I got the car first time to the races last summer, and now the further development is going on. I destroyed 2 engines last summer due to oiling issues, so I built some experience on it
My cars runs in the FIA period G (1966-1971), which allows for some better parts than pre '66.
Now I have a new engine under construction. It's got a steel crank, stock rods and custom made pistons by Ross. Now I'm working on the cylinder heads and 4bbl intake manifold. These both are of the original cast iron type, as required by the FIA rules. Valves sizes are also the original 1.78" / 1.5". The camshaft is Comp 20-230-4. Caburettor is Holley 650 cfm and there are Doug's headers.
Actually I have no idea of the expected hp from my new engine, but I've seen a dyno sheet with 391 hp at crank from a similar build.
In addition to my Dart, in Finland there are two '65 Barracudas and one '65 Valiant in Historic Races, and one '66 Valiant doing Historic stage rallying. So, there is actually quite a lot of experience in running these Mopar beasts. Here's a link to the one of the Barracuda teams page: http://www.silverfishracing.fi
Sweet ride. Love the early Trans Am/SCCA style racing.
Beckman's '67 Barracuda was also on your side of the pond last I checked. However for vintage rally the 340 was in the FIA homogalation so probably little to help on your 273 there.
The only opinion that matters is his.... La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la..... (with fingers in ears)
That 66 Dart is sweet!
Does anyone know how a customer could order a new 1965 or 66 Plymouth or Dodge A-body equipped with an 8 3/4 rear? I read a lot threads saying the 8 3/4 rear was an option, but I have never seen a sales code or that option listed.
I thought for a while perhaps ordering a car with the "trailer towing option" would be the answer. But according to the literature, the trailer tow option is available only with the automatic transmission.
My 65 and two 66 Formula S (Sept 66 and Oct 66 build dates) 4 speed cars all came with the 7 1/4". If warranty was the issue, you'd think by the 66 model year, Chrysler would have made the 8 3/4 rear standard equipment on 273 - 4 speed cars.
The 67 Mopar literature says all 4 speed cars came standard with the 8 3/4, but I'm sure there was a way to order the 8 3/4 with any engine, but how?
lol
I'm not sure about the Barracuda, but for the Dart the 8.75 rear end was FIA homologated only for 1966. At the same time there came 10.5" clutch and 15 x 7" wheels. Actually my own Dart is originally a 1965 GT that I converted to 1966 specs to get these goodies.
The only opinion that matters is his.... La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la..... (with fingers in ears)
Again, how many 273 Barracuda's 'currently' running in the European FIA Circuit.
Of course we can't ask you. Because you couldn't even find the United Kingdom with a World Atlas in front of your face.
CPDave
Spin Cycle
Hee! That's NOT what the FIA thinks. What counts in this case is what Dodge & Plymouth told the FIA in the official paperwork rather than what actually came down the assembly line. ;) And that says 15x7 wheels, and 10.5" clutch for the Dart and 10.5:1 318 for the '66 Barracuda among other goodies!
That's NOT what the FIA thinks. What counts in this case is what Dodge & Plymouth told the FIA in the official paperwork rather than what actually came down the assembly line. ;) And that says 15x7 wheels, and 10.5" clutch for the Dart and 10.5:1 318 for the '66 Barracuda among other goodies!
Yes. What counts is what the FIA accepted back then. And after all, these papers got filed early and well, the 'basic' specs were met, depending on how you want to interpret that and their intentions...
Mike 'splains it here.
http://www.teamstarfish.com/fia_papers.html
Mike 'splains it here.
http://www.teamstarfish.com/fia_papers.html
CPDave
Spin Cycle
Yep! Keeping an eye out for '66 Barracuda's with a 6 in the 5th digit of their VIN! Also looking for Unicorns, Mermaids, and Lepricons! ;) -
