349 CI on the cheap

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outlawracer said:
We never had time to dyno the motor. The owner was in a hurry and wouldn't take an extra day to dyno it. As far as weight of the car I would guess some where around 3600 #s. I was just asking about to dyno to see if this motor would even come close to making the power your thinking it might make. I haven't personaly messed with mopars in a few years but I don't ever recall 360s being hard to find, I understand 318s are everywhere. I always had a hard time finding 340 blocks. There is just no way I would turn a stock 360 crank down to 318 mains. As far as stock mopar a motor heads go I wouldn't waste the time doing a valve job on them if i was wanting any kind of decent power. Cylinder head technology has come a long way in the last 10 years or so and prices have come down to not use new heads. I just couldn't justify building a smaller, weaker, less power more expensive motor.
To each is their own.
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i am planning to build this engine,for a couple reasons.number one,i dont dont have the cash most of you guys seem to have.i can build this engine a little less radical and be stronger than most 360s around here.number 2,people are starting to think 360s are worth 340 money,ive had 318s given to me.also,you must have been into chevys for a while,because stock mopar heads can be very efficient performance heads,IF the right work is done to them,and they are of the right valve size for the engine you put them on.too big a valve will slow the aircharge down too much for a street application.you might get by with the high dollar heads on the drag strip were the cams are huge,and the stall is obove 4500,with really steep gears.i believe the 349 will better performance engine for the money than a 340,because the you can suptract the golden price tag of the block,right off the top.the torque will be better,with the right cam.i guess we could argue about it forever,we will see,time slips dont lie!
 
How is it going to be stronger than a 360 when you're taking 360 parts and making it smaller? Turning the crank that much isn't a good idea. Run the motor for about 5000 mile and pull it apart and magnaflux the crank and the mains will probaly look like spiderwebs. Lets say you take a stock set of heads and have them reworked.
How much would it cost you to have the seats cut for bigger valves, install bronze guides, milled, buy new valves, springs, locks, retainers and just have them mildly ported? Also I have not mentioned anything race motors. What I have built is a completly pump gas street motor that as of right now has 23,000 miles on it without a single problem.
 
Outlawracer,
They sell new cranks with the mains already the right size, so they wont be turned down and can get them as cheap as or cheaper than the machining cost of the turned down crank.

As for the heads why would you put larger valves in, this would create valve shrouding and a loss of flow as the cylinder will only pull so much air and thats it. Also to the larger valves will slow the velocity down in the heads so now filling the cylinder quicker becomes harder. Or the need for higher compression is needed to help pull the air fuel charge in.

As for the heads I would do what you have listed for $950.00 complete, and they would flow as good or better than the eddy's and cost less. And have better velocity than the eddy's. To me eddy's have 2 things that IMO go against them 1. the Int. valve is too big for this size engines bore and 2. the port size is much too large for this enigne and bore size, and the bore will never utilize the port efficiently, when a smaller port will make more power and Tq. and be more efficient.
 
In your orginal post you where talking about using a stock 360 crank and turning it down, not buying a one new. For another $300 more than what you quoted you can buy a brand new set of aluminum heads and not have a set of old reworked stock heads. Also aluminum heads help the motor run cooler and help control detonation.
No matter what you do to a stock set of heads they will never flow and make as much power as a set of out of the box eddys. Once again if a person is using a 360 the you saving the money of having to buy a crank or turn one down and the bore size is larger so that it doesn't shroud the vavles. Even with the 318 bore the eddys are perfect, I would actualy want 2.05 or 2.08 valves with a bigger bore. Unless you are using a pair of w2s your leaving alot of power on the table. When I build myself another motor I'm putting the Brodix ba heads on it.
 
outlawracer said:
For another $300 more than what you quoted you can buy a brand new set of aluminum heads and not have a set of old reworked stock heads. Also aluminum heads help the motor run cooler and help control detonation.
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A 2.02 aluminum head isn't allways what the engine needs or can use. Running cooler is good. But an iron head is retaining heat for power and can run cool enuff for whats needed. If detonation is a problem, I would not be blaming heads so fast as there is also fuel and timing to look at.




No matter what you do to a stock set of heads they will never flow and make as much power as a set of out of the box eddys. Once again if a person is using a 360 the you saving the money of having to buy a crank or turn one down and the bore size is larger so that it doesn't shroud the vavles. Even with the 318 bore the eddys are perfect,
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Your support of the Edelbrock heads is fine, but if your saying there perfect for a 318? I'm not sure one shoe fits all here.
While I'm not a guy with a flow bench and tons of motors under my belt, I'd like to know the division line areas for this.
A 2.02 in a 318 is a large valve. Something I wouldn't really bother with in most cases anymore.
I would actualy want 2.05 or 2.08 valves with a bigger bore. Unless you are using a pair of w2s your leaving alot of power on the table. When I build myself another motor I'm putting the Brodix ba heads on it
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But it's a 360 or 340 in a race body? Not a 318 right?

Thakns
 
outlawracer said:
In your orginal post you where talking about using a stock 360 crank and turning it down, not buying a one new. For another $300 more than what you quoted you can buy a brand new set of aluminum heads and not have a set of old reworked stock heads. Also aluminum heads help the motor run cooler and help control detonation.
No matter what you do to a stock set of heads they will never flow and make as much power as a set of out of the box eddys. Once again if a person is using a 360 the you saving the money of having to buy a crank or turn one down and the bore size is larger so that it doesn't shroud the vavles. Even with the 318 bore the eddys are perfect, I would actualy want 2.05 or 2.08 valves with a bigger bore. Unless you are using a pair of w2s your leaving alot of power on the table. When I build myself another motor I'm putting the Brodix ba heads on it.
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Outlawracer,
Your correct in the fact that I used a turned down 360 crank but then I found cranks with this work already done and the cost was very close, so why not get a new crank before turning one down.

As for the heads I've seen the eddy's on my bench and believe me they arent what you think that they are. I've built many engines with factory heads that would run and hide from a stock set of eddy's. And I have fully ported eddy's also, but to say that the eddy's are that much better than a good stock head thats ported is rubbish. Eddy's only flow in the 240's at both .500 and .600 from the factory let alone fully ported they flow 290 to 300. I've done this with a set of 587's, and 915's, with 1.88 intake valves, so to say that the Eddy's are the clear winner is a misjudgement on your part.

Once again the idea of this thread was to use a 318 block and not a 360, if you want a 360 by all means do one. But then we both have different views on how to build engines, with both of us thinking that were right and I'll leave it at this.
 
I see the bigger problem as he is trashing a 349 without concern or care to how it got started. Some poeple here wanted to do this stroker combo. If thats where they want to spend there money, let them. Don't trash'em. BJR just showed a way to do it.
 
"Because we can???"

BJR - just to pick your brain: What would the implications be, using a set of mildly ported 596 heads on a 349 instead of 302 castings? Would the chambers be too big? Not worth my time?

I ask because I have a set of ported, rebuilt 596s on my current 360. If they are suitable it would save me from building 302s and putting the 1.88/1.60 valve set in them. I have a set of 302s, but they are unbuilt.

I now have a 318 block (stock bore) and a MP 3.55" forged crank with the correct mains. I'm looking for a nice little 450hp mill, nothing crazy.

Again, just poking around...I can't plan to put this motor together until the rest of the car is done.
 
superdart,
I think that you have this thread mixed up with the 322 thread as in the 3rd paragragh I use 360 heads.

They will work fine and actually what the engine needs. The 302's would be used if the engine was going to be a Tq. only engine with low RPM's and a 4000 RPM limit. Definitly use the 596's. But due to chamber size cc wise you'll have to check as to what your final compression ratio will be. You may want to cut about .060 off if this hasnt been done yet, and then cut .075 off the intake face so the intake manifold will fit properly.
 
A stock head is about .095 - .100 in the flat part of the chamber from the factory. So you can measure there and determine how much has been removed from the casting already.
 
You just have too many good threads to read...I can't keep them straight.](*,)

Oh well, I'll hold on to the 302s for prosperity...or until I find someone that wants them.:toothy7:
 
Are you wanting to sell them or give them away?

There are many people here that would like to have a good set of 302 castings, or maybe you should keep them and put them on a 318 as they work very well on them.

Just a little work is needed to make them some real screamers.

If your just wanting to give them away then I'll take them.
 
I have a whopping $50 invested in them. I can't say that I'd use them on another 318. I have one car, and only need one motor. The 360 is it until I can build the 349 (well, 346 since it's a 3.55 crank).

The ugly part is, what would it cost to ship a set of heads???
 
Ive been talking about my 349 build with Bobby - Unfo weused the wrong slugs and got limited P-V clearance, so my cam is only a smallish solid.

I finally got the combo sorted yesterday- and I think my times show the combo has potential.

Also, I did the swap from heavily ported 318 heads to STOCK 360's, and my track times prove it was worth it.

318 welded ported heads, 2.02 nailhead -
Best of 13.46, 1.91 60 ft, 99 mph.

360 smogger heads (NO porting), 1.96 tulip -
Best 13.17, 1.91 60 ft, 102.7 mph

For all the work done to the 318 heads, they were laying over in the top end, and clearly there's more in the combo if I port the smoggers.

Heres the background -

2 day - 88 deg F / 18% humidity -

With factory 360 smoggers (just a clean up - no bowl port -210 cfm?) and 1.96 tulip valves,
GM HEI ignition module,
3.9 gears , 27" tyre, on Firehawk road radials
Butchered Hi Comp slugs and 10.2:1 comp.
Comp 495 lift 282s cam -

I ran 13.17 in a 3620 lb car.

Bobby BJR - Thanks for your input on the heads - it helped convince me the potential was there...just needed releasing.

BTW - this car drove me 550 miles (One way) 5 weeks ago to visit family - :cheers:
 
DB15- Thats right, Im still relying on the converter/gears a little -

IF I got the 360 heads ported, then my MPH would be where it should be (appx 106 mph).

What it does show is that Im getting the best out of my combo - so cant complain!!
 
3620 lbs....for that Charger in your sig?

I didn't realize the A-body based Chargers were that heavy.
 
Moparmal,
Thats 326 HP net and in detuned state, and 407 HP out of the engine. Not bad for streetcar. Just think of how much more you would have gained if the short block was properly done,(piston and cam wise). Then add a little head work and were now over 500 HP.
 
superdart said:
3620 lbs....for that Charger in your sig?

I didn't realize the A-body based Chargers were that heavy.
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Hi SuperDart - Thats with a half tank of fuel and me in it (Im 210)

However the Hemi 6 cyl cars are lighter, BW manual box is lighter than a 904, and the Hemi 6 is 150 lbs less than a LA SB.

Thats why Chrysler Australia circuit raced the Hemi 6 - it handled better with less weight over the front axles and its 105 wheel base.
 
Ah..that makes more sense.

I LOVE that body style..it would really turn heads in the states.
 
superdart said:
Ah..that makes more sense.

I LOVE that body style..it would really turn heads in the States.
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By last count there are around 8 in the US, and 1 in Canada.

The first was imported by the Baker Boys from Georgia, an R/T clone -

A guy on Moparts who I know pretty well (OzHemi) is a car importer and he has one (another R/T clone) , and has brought over four others for other customers.

(He also brought over OneBadSuperBIrds right steer Daytona....a car that was in Oz since 1972 and had to be converted to be licenced.)

Another guy named Ron down south somewhere has two Aussie Chargers - and theres another guy in SoCal that has another one.

SO we have-

Baker Boys car - Vit C
OzHemi - Vit C
Unknown - Bondi Beach White
Unknown (SoCal) - Mercury Silver
Ron - Penta Magenta (bit like Panther Pink) and Vit C
Sandy in Canada - Dont know the colour

I believe all are Hemi 6 cars.
 
Mal,
Did you mean Bayer Boys? as there here in Ga. and there Mopar specialists. There very close to me location wise.
As I've never seen the car I've heard of it.
 
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