360cui engine build in Europe.

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Rolec

Rolec

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Hi all,

I'm opening this thread, to get some tips, tricks, suggestions and confirmation that i'm doing a good job :)

To start off i'm going to tel some history about my last engine that is wrecked. When i build the wrecked performer engine(2800 to 6200rpm purple cam) the car was a 4 speed manual shift and it was a great performer and driver!! Due off my ex-wife wasn't able to drive the car with the manual trans.... We converted it to an autotrans :( This was an bed idea, i know now. From the moment we did the conversion al kind of troubles started and the engine didn't perform like it used to. I never thought the problems came from the trannie conversion... Didn't even tought about it :banghead: stupid me!! The engine was build for an manual shift and not autotrans. I drove the car for another 4000mls with the autotrans, abusing the engine to make it perform like before... Never did by the way!! And then it happend... doing 70mph on the freeway... a lot of noise under the hood!! We towed the car to our shop and started to investigate the problem...
The bearings on my rods turned over each other and wrecked my crankshaft and one of the rods. :eek:ops:
The last engine did only hold up for 8000miles... the new engine should hold up much longer i hope?!

I bought myself another engine, A low mileage '78 360 with all standard bores!! I'm going to use the top end of my old engine. The heads and intake worked great before and are great combo!:cheers:

The Duster is equipped with an 904 autotransmission with shiftkit and a 2400/2600 stall convertor behind that is a 8 3/4 rear axle equipped with 3.23 posi gearing and a tire height off 27".

I already sorted out some parts for my build and some parts i still am figuring out. This weekend i'm going to cc my heads to determ what static compression i'm going to have.

The heads from my old engine that i'm going to use are in good shape. They have been port matched to my intake(weiand accelerator) and exhaust headers. We smoothed out the intake and exhaust runners and get the good valve set up in the heads(1.60 and 2.02 valves). I'm using the standard stamped steel(MP) valve train with(MP)springs because i don't have the budget for an aftermarket rocker kit wright now!! But i think when i'm not getting to crazy with my cam choice those wil be ok?
I'm not looking to get the max power out of it but i must perform enough to do a sprint down the strip ;)

After cc-ing my heads this weekend i'm ready to do the math and ready to determ what parts i'm going to order.

The parts i sorted out sofar(not ordered yet)

8 Sealed Power Pistons (Hypereutectic w/ 2 valve reliefs -5cc)
Dana Rings (moly)
Cloyes timing set (dbbl roller)
Clevite main bearings
Clevite rod bearings
Clevite cam bearings
Melling high volume oil pump
Melling pick up tube
New freeze plugs (Brass)
FelPro full gasket set


The questions i have for now are...

What is the max lift but safe lift that the stamped steel rockers can take without breaking??
am i forgetting thing in my parts list?


For now.. enough typing.

looking forward to the reply's

Greets Robin
 
Sounds like a nice ride when complete. Cam lift is going to be determined by the valve spring you have. Those two need to match or have close valve seat pressures. For what it's worth, I've ran stamped steel rockers with a .532 lift cam, but only maybe 2000 miles. The problem is if they ever break, it will most likely end up destroying the cam lobe if you do not catch it in time. I don't think you'll have much of a problem unless your springs are very strong and you throw in a big cam.
 
sounds like you got a plan

is the cam you had in the old 360 still good?
I would imagine it was matched to the valvetrain you plan on reusing no?

it almost sounds like the old engine simply got over rev-ed and that's when the rods went out of round, allowing the bearings to spin over each other...might not have been due to the 904


just out of curiosity, wheres about in the Netherlands are you?
 
I also wonder if balance was an issue. Did it have vibration after the conversion to the 904? May not have had a converter that was balanced for the 360....
 
Consider forged pistons, more expensive but better if you plan on a steady diet of RPM runs.
 
What happened to the stick? Sounds like the wife is now an ex so you can ditch the slush box and put the stick back in it.

I'm partial to sticks BTW.
 
@T56maxtorq: thx for our input! I think i'll stay under .500 lift then it is save.(i hope)

@diymirage: I have a plan.. better to be said as i so called have a plan hahaha. hoping to get some input overhere to see if my socalled plan is a plan?!
The old cam is still usable but goth some wearing. Thats one off the reasons that i want to put a new one in the engine. the other reason is, After the conversion to the 904 i goth some trouble with my idle rpm's... as i put it in drive the engine drops to much Rpm to stay alive. A guy with a lot off mopar experience in Holland told me the problem was the cam working together with my stallconvertor. The cam was good with the 4 speed but not with my autotrans. he gave me to options..change the cam or get an different stallconvertor with higher stall?! My choice is to change the cam.
I think your right about the over rev of the engine. I over reved to much in neutral :(
I live in Limburg..thats the smallest and most south piece of Holland.

@mguner: Balance should be ok... i goth the special flexplate ;)

@supertruck; i did consider the forged piston but my budget is tight on this build. The next build will be a 408 then i'll go for the forged pistons.

@yellowrose; i sold the a833 :( still having lots of regrets on this..but **** happens and sometimes people make wrong decisions. My lost :(

Thx for the input sofar guys :wav:
 
Consider a dual plane intake with the 3.23 gears.It will idle smoother and have better low end and mid range acceleration,especially at part throttle.

What cam will you be going with this time and what is the rpm range of it?
 
this cam that you had in there is too big to work with the 2400-2600 stall converter?
that doesn't add up
was that converter new or used?
I have a custom build 3200 RPM stall converter in mine and there is NO drop shifting from park-neutral-drive-or reverse

if your wanting to stick with the converter you have now, I'm sure someone who is more knowledgeable then me will be able to suggest a good cam
(all I would add is that I would suggest you buy that cam as a package with lifters and springs so you know it will all work well together)


speaking of limburg, the very first plane ride I was ever one went from Eindhoven to Maastricht-Aachen Airport
I think I still have an aunt and two cousins who live somewhere near Maastricht (cant think of the name of the village, wiechen, maybe? )

Now, everytime we come home to Brabant (volkel to be precise) we fly over Zaventem, because the drive is much nicer then coming down from Schiphol
 
Hi Robin,

As I read your old setup, your cam just did not have any low end torque to match up to the lower stall speed of the torque converter and the lower rear axle gear ratio. So, you need to be looking for a cam that puts emphasis on low RPM torque to use your present torque converter.

Some more information from you on how you like to use this engine is important. Do you look for this to be a drag race car? Or is it more of a street car?

Your H116CP piston choice will give adequate static compression ratio (SCR), which is needed for good low RPM torque. With the Felpro 1008 head gaskets, it should be around 9.1 with 72 cc combustion chambers. If you milled .020" from the heads, you would move the SCR up to around 9.4. Or, use thinner head gaskets, like .028". Any of these SCR numbers will be pretty good.

Then you want to match up the cam to maintain the dynamic compression ratio to above 8 if possible, ir at least keep it in the high 7 range. This is going to limit your cam duration, and that will limit the lift to what is probably a safe range for your rockers. This will be a lower RPM engine overall, so this engine will behave differently, and on the drag strip (if you do that), the engine may be limited by a small amount for top end speed compared to the old engine.

The cams with the more aggressive ramps on the lobes may be the best choice here, like the Lunati Voodoo type. The 10200702 may be a good choice. This cam with the .020" shaved heads will give a DCR of 7.8, which ought to keep the low RPM torque very good. And the lift is very similar to what you had before. If this is mostly a street and cruising engine, that is the type of cam I would select. If your use is for drag racing, then there are better choices.

And, look at the specifications on your MP valve springs to see if they match up with the new cam.
 
@496Polara: I have a dual plane edelbrock lying around... Sow it could be used in the build. Not sure witch one i'm going to use..it depends on my cam i think. Like u said it is going to give me more low end and mid range torq and would work very good with a torq cam. Due of my axle gears, i'm still thinking what to do. I'll do my math on the part tommorrow. I want a powerfull drive when my head is in cruising modus but on the other hand when my head switches into race modus i also want a car that i could put on the strip for a couple of times a year(4 to 6 times a year). I know its not possible to do a build and get an engine what is going to perform in both ways.

@diymirage: The convertor was a new TCI convertor and i made a mistake in my math when i bought it. I should bought a 3200 or so stall convertor.:banghead:
Like nm9stheham said the convertor did not matched up with my cam ;)
Ofcourse when i get a new cam it will be a kit incl lifters and springs :D

Limburg.. i live between eindhoven airport and maastricht aachen airport. Next time you come over to Brabant check out Dusseldorf airport... its mostly an direct flight from the US and a short drive to Brabant. (tip off the day :D )

@nm9stheham: I would like to do an engine build to cruise down the streed an be competitive with those VW's and BMW's and when i am going to a dragstrip be competitive with those SB cheby's and Frod's (Chevy and ford ;) )

It is going to be more a street car then a strip car!! The last engine was to much on the street it was build for the strip... its was an fast ride from 0 to 100mph but not an great ride at cruisin ?!

The technical talk yo do about SCR and DCR... some mopar guy overhere told me the same story. i'm trying to get my SCR over 9:1 and keep my DCR between 8:1 and 8.5:1. First things first of off to my garage to cc my heads.

Thx all for the input
 
Rolec said:
The technical talk yo do about SCR and DCR... some mopar guy overhere told me the same story. i'm trying to get my SCR over 9:1 and keep my DCR between 8:1 and 8.5:1. First things first of off to my garage to cc my heads.

Thx all for the input
Click to expand...
Good deal. Find a good calculator for the SCR and DCR and use them. I like the Pat Kelly one. You'll end up with DCR being approximately 1 less than SCR for a cam with a lower torque band.
 
Hi all,

It have been a while but i made some progress with my engine. Now i need some advice about the cam i'm going to order.

Engine set up:

360 Heads with the good valves (1.60 and 2.02 valves) 72cc combustion chambers, Intake and exhaust runners opened up and smoothened. The heads are port matched to my weiand accelarator intake and headers also the heads are 0.20 milled of to raise the compression. I'll be running the standard 1:5 stamped steel rockers and shafts.

The engine is at the machine shop now to be bored 0.30 to match the new pistons and moly rings(Hypereutectic w/ 2 valve reliefs -5cc). after that the engine will be washed to clean out all the oil and cooling channels.

The following parts will be added to the engine:
Cloyes timing set (dbbl roller)
Clevite main bearings
Clevite rod bearings
Clevite cam bearings
Melling high volume oil pump
Melling pick up tube
New freeze plugs (Brass)
FelPro full gasket set

I put my numbers in a couple of calculators and they come out different?! one says 10.66:1 the other 9.74:1 !!

Maybe someone can tell me what i do wrong... here are the number i entered in the calculator.

Bore : 4.030
stroke : 3.58
headgasket thickness : 0.039
deck clearance : 0.050
pistons w/valve reliefs : -5cc
combustion chamber : 72cc

Please advice?

What wil be my static compression??
what cam i wil be needing to get the good dynamic compression?

More info to select a good cam that work with the driveline set up:

The Duster is equipped with an 904 autotransmission with shiftkit and a 2400/2600 stall convertor behind that is a 8 3/4 rear axle equipped with 3.23 posi gearing and a tire height off 27".
Driving speed here are: downtown speedlimit : 30mph and 50mph, highway speedlimit 75mph.

The car must be streetable but going to run the dragstrip once in a while!! Not wanting a 7500rpm car that does not perform while cruising down the street on a sunny day!

Who is going to give the wright numbers advice?? Please ad you tech info so i can get smarter in engine building :)
 
Keep your X-Celerator intake--its a torque maker. Ditch the HV pump. Spend some time baffling your oil pan and think about oil control. At the very least ARP rod bolts and rod machining--I'd go for SCAT's 6.123 I beam if I were you. You have a decent trans but too bad you sold off your 4 speed. Use Lunati cam #
10200702LK. Break it in properly, set timing to 36 total and probably 16-18 initial, use a Quick Fuel 600 cfm Slayer carb. Drive, enjoy. J.Rob
 
You're static is only 8.8 with the numbers you provided. Deck block to achieve -.005" piston in the hole. You will have a beast. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
You're static is only 8.8 with the numbers you provided. Deck block to achieve -.005" piston in the hole. You will have a beast. J.Rob[/QUOTE

SpeedPro H116cp have a comp height of 1.660" which would put you at .026" in the hole at a deck height of 9.599". You're compression is closer to 9.25. Deck it .020" and you will have a hair over 9.5 - 1 . J.Rob
Click to expand...
 
I run a comp cams XE268H in mine
http://www.compperformancegroupstor...Product_Code=20-223-3&Category_Code=LACAMHFXE
I would imagine you would want to keep with a lower range cam, something that starts making power early on, since your running a rather low stall converter

oh, one more thing, you mentioned maximum speed in the Netherlands is 75 MPH but you and I both know it is only 20 minutes from your house to the nearest autobahn ;)
 
Hey Ramm (rob) Thx for your reply.

you said:
Keep your X-Celerator intake--its a torque maker. Ditch the HV pump. Spend some time baffling your oil pan and think about oil control. At the very least ARP rod bolts and rod machining--I'd go for SCAT's 6.123 I beam if I were you. You have a decent trans but too bad you sold off your 4 speed. Use Lunati cam #
10200702LK. Break it in properly, set timing to 36 total and probably 16-18 initial, use a Quick Fuel 600 cfm Slayer carb.

Why ditch the hv pump? And can you be a little more specific about "baffling" my oil pan? I ordered the arp rod bolts... but want to stay with the standard rods(deu off low cost build :( )
I did some mailing with Lunati and they advise the Lunati 10200703LK cam kit, because of the 4bbl,headers and stall converter. Sow i ordered that one. sorry i'm a stubbarn guy hahaha.
The carb i'm going to use is an holley 650 i already ordered. :)

Now getting back at my static compression question:
you said :
You're static is only 8.8 with the numbers you provided. Deck block to achieve -.005" piston in the hole. You will have a beast.

SpeedPro H116cp have a comp height of 1.660" which would put you at .026" in the hole at a deck height of 9.599". You're compression is closer to 9.25. Deck it .020" and you will have a hair over 9.5 - 1 . J.Rob

I'm using the Speedpro H116cp. I was hoping to reach 9:1 compression ore more. What static wil i get without decking the block? 8.88:1 or 9.25:1 ?? Every time i use the calculator i get different compression ratio's... maybe i'm doing something wrong ?? something like 0.026 that should be 0.26 ? a case off pet **** in and you'll get **** out :BangHead:



@diymirage , hahaha yep die autobahn... that the only german thing i love :rofl:


 
Rolec said:
Hey Ramm (rob) Thx for your reply.

you said:
Keep your X-Celerator intake--its a torque maker. Ditch the HV pump. Spend some time baffling your oil pan and think about oil control. At the very least ARP rod bolts and rod machining--I'd go for SCAT's 6.123 I beam if I were you. You have a decent trans but too bad you sold off your 4 speed. Use Lunati cam #
10200702LK. Break it in properly, set timing to 36 total and probably 16-18 initial, use a Quick Fuel 600 cfm Slayer carb.

Why ditch the hv pump? And can you be a little more specific about "baffling" my oil pan? I ordered the arp rod bolts... but want to stay with the standard rods(deu off low cost build :( )
I did some mailing with Lunati and they advise the Lunati 10200703LK cam kit, because of the 4bbl,headers and stall converter. Sow i ordered that one. sorry i'm a stubbarn guy hahaha.
The carb i'm going to use is an holley 650 i already ordered. :)

Now getting back at my static compression question:
you said :
You're static is only 8.8 with the numbers you provided. Deck block to achieve -.005" piston in the hole. You will have a beast.

SpeedPro H116cp have a comp height of 1.660" which would put you at .026" in the hole at a deck height of 9.599". You're compression is closer to 9.25. Deck it .020" and you will have a hair over 9.5 - 1 . J.Rob

I'm using the Speedpro H116cp. I was hoping to reach 9:1 compression ore more. What static wil i get without decking the block? 8.88:1 or 9.25:1 ?? Every time i use the calculator i get different compression ratio's... maybe i'm doing something wrong ?? something like 0.026 that should be 0.26 ? a case off pet **** in and you'll get **** out :BangHead:



@diymirage , hahaha yep die autobahn... that the only german thing i love :rofl:
Click to expand...

The HV oil pump will spend a lot of time bypassing and generating heat, not to mention being harder to turn--READ as lost HP. Look in your oil pan and imagine it with 5qts of oil in it and where and how that oil moves under hard acceleration, cornering and deceleration. You can weld in some simple sheet metal baffles that can help.

8.8 comp ratio was based off of your -50 thou deck height which it shouldn't be with SpeedPro H116. These pistons have a comp height of 1.660" which using the EAGLE calculator tells us you will have a -26 thou piston to deck height. Eagle Specialty Products, Inc. This calculator works well. 26 though is .026"

.26" is over 1/4" or a quarter inch--BIG difference. J.Rob
 
"baffles" die moet je zien als een paar plaatstalen dammen die in de bodem van de olie pan gelast zitten
zoals RAMM zei, dat zorgt ervoor dat de olie niet door de hele pan gaat liggen stormen


oh, en vergeet de curry sauce niet, das toch ook duits?
zonder dat gerei kun je geen frikandel speciaal maken
 
@ Ramm, thx for the reply and advise!! The info you give on the hv oilpump makes sense to me, I will be adding a standard oilpump and make some baffles in the oilpan. Maybe you have a picture off an oilpan with baffles within?? Sow i have an idea how it should look when its finnished??

Still wondering what i do wrong with those compression calculators... they tell 10.33:1 ?? what numbers you put in the calculator to get to 9.25:1 ?? maybe you can send me a screenshot of your calculations? (maybe then i see the difference)

@diymirage Bedankt voor je uitleg...duidelijk zo!!
hahaha idd die curry saus... de echte "Hela" curry is zo duits als het maar kan.. and yes i'm loving that!!1 En niet alleen op de frikandel speciaal :)


@all, My parts are on the way...jeeeeee. Not long and i can start my build up thread here at for a body's only.
i'll keep you guys posted !
 
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