65 Dart 273 Engine Rebuild

[PocketAces]

Now that the body is in primer and all the bare metal is covered, time to get going on the engine.

I tore down the top end of the engine that was in the car to get the heads. Remember the car came with a 1969 block with all the 1965 parts bolted to it. Most likely the short block was replaced by a dealer early in the life of the car since the 1969 block doesn't have a VIN stamp on the oil pan rail.

I will be using the 1965 block I got off e-bay, with the 1965 heads that came with the car. So I tore the engine apart last night. The 1969 block was rebuilt back in the 80's. Turns out it's .030" over with a very minimal ridge. Some day I'll find a new home for it.

This morning, I cc'ed the heads. I did one chamber on each head. The first one was 63cc's. The other one was 62cc's. The valves looked pretty good and the exhaust valves were not recessed into the seats. Perhaps hardened seats were installed when the engine was rebuilt back in the 80's?

I took the heads out to L&R Engines where my engine has been patiently waiting for the past year. Unfortunately, the guy that was helping me out there passed away in the interim. He was only 64. Luckily they still have the block and they even remembered me.

They will hot tank and magna flux these heads to make sure they're good cores. They will also measure the deck height of the 1965 block so we can make some decisions on the build.

 

[66fs]

Would a set of NOS standard bore pistons be of interest for your engine? Brand new still in orginal box!

I'd run these and not look back. Hone it with torque plates and torque the mains to 85 ft lbs. Hone it just enough to clean up the ring travel. Commando pistons will ping on premium gas with an E-4 Isky Cam. Even with the Felpro Gaskets. 273 2 barrel pistons are almost zero deck, measure yours. Good Job, and good luck.

65dartcharger, what are the part numbers on the pistons?

 

[PocketAces]

I got some good news from the engine builder.

The heads were hot tanked and magnafluxed. No cracks!

The block deck height measures 9.610". That's .010" above spec.

Now I have all the information required to calculate static compression ratio. Time to get busy and make some decisions.

 

[PocketAces]

I called Kanter Automotive to find out about their domed 273 pistons. They have .030" over pistons in stock and I got them to measure their compression height.

Back in post #44 I measured the height of Egge's domed pistons as well as a used set of .040 over TRW forged pistons. Here are the numbers along with the corresponding numbers from Kanter.

The Kanter pistons are taller than the Egge pistons but not as tall as the TRW pistons. All three pistons have a dome that is approximately .150 tall.

Compression Height
Egge: 1.749
Kanter: 1.771
TRW: 1.782

Height to the Top of the Dome
Egge: 1.900
Kanter: 1.921
TRW: 1.935

 

[PocketAces]

To measure dynamic CR the compression calculator needs to know the Intake closing event. I plan on using the Isky E4 cam. I called Isky and they told me that the Intake closes at 33 degrees ABDC measured with .050" lift.

 

[PocketAces]

Egge Pistons
Isky E4 Cam
.005" cleanup cut on the deck and heads
Mr Gasket 1121G Head Gasket

 

[PocketAces]

Kanter Pistons
Isky E4 Cam
.005" cleanup cut on the deck and heads
FelPro 8553PT Head Gasket

 

[Abodybomber]

Those head gaskets,all based on a 4 inch bore. Why the compression difference is so low between the two. That frisky Isky,sounds good. (Toolman Mike ,has a video in his thread.).

 

[PocketAces]

Kanter Pistons
Isky E4 Cam
.005" cleanup cut on the deck and heads
FelPro 1008 Head Gasket

 

[PocketAces]

Those head gaskets,all based on a 4 inch bore. Why the compression difference is so low between the two. That frisky Isky,sounds good. (Toolman Mike ,has a video in his thread.).

The extra .020" of head gasket thickness is offset by the .020" taller Kanter pistons.

 

[Abodybomber]

Get it....

 

[PocketAces]

I've read that a Dynamic Compression Ratio of 8:1 will run fine on 91 Octane. Does anyone have any experience with DCR versus octane?

 

[PocketAces]

I just cancelled my Egge pistons which were backordered until January and ordered a set from Kanter. I learned that they are made by Rebuilder's Choice. Price was higher and shipping was $60, but I got out of paying sales tax because they are in NJ and Egge and I are both here in CA.

 

[montanaro5]

I've got a '65 Cuda that I'm fixin' up. It does have a red interior and carpet that's in great shape except for in the trunk area so I may be interested in some of your parts. Also, the rubber for the doors is something I'll need. Do you know where to get the seals and "swipers" for the driver's and passenger's doors?

 

[montanaro5]

Sorry about the last post. Meant to send a quick note to one of your reply's sender. Great thread though and good luck with your project.

 

[txstang84]

Cool little Dart! I look forward to seeing the finished product-and you telling us how that 273 runs

 

[toolmanmike]

Cool little Dart! I look forward to seeing the finished product-and you telling us how that 273 runs

Just read through your threads. Sounds like you're having fun with your build.
You have done a very thorough job measuring that will help you make the right decision and you information will be referred to by 273 builders from here on out. Thanks for that. tmm

 

[PocketAces]

Here are some pictures of the engine before and after tear down. This is the block that came with the car, but it's a 69 block which will be replaced with a 65 block I got from an eBay seller in NJ that is date coded correct for my car.

I will be using these heads. They cc'ed at 62 and 63 cc's each. They've since been hot tanked and magnafluxed and they are good cores.

 

[PocketAces]

Kanter Automotive sent the wrong pistons. These are flat-tops made by Rebuilder's Choice. They are sending me domed pistons and a return shipping label for the flat tops.

For anyone thinking of ordering these pistons, I measured the compression height at 1.778". You can see the green Teflon on the skirts.

 

[PocketAces]

The second set of pistons arrived from Kanter Automotive. This time we got domes! I took my own measurements and they are very close to what Kanter told me to expect.

Compression Height
Egge: 1.749
Kanter: 1.769
TRW: 1.782

Height to the Top of the Dome
Egge: 1.900
Kanter: 1.919
TRW: 1.935

Height to the Back Side of the Dome
Egge: 1.771
Kanter: 1.779
TRW: 1.807

So the compression height of the Kanter pistons is indeed .020" taller than the Egge pistons. And the dome height of all three pistons is right around .150".

But there is a slight difference in the third measurement, suggesting that the Kanter piston might have a bit less dome volume than the other two pistons. The dome also looks smaller, but I have no idea how to estimate this difference.

Here is a link to my earlier post with photos and measurements of the Egge and TRW pistons: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1969625909&postcount=44

Here are some photos of the Rebuilder's Choice domed pistons from Kanter that I will be using.

 

[txstang84]

I can't recall where I saw it, but there's a method I saw in these pages somewhere to measure the dome with the piston mocked up in the cylinder using a cc kit just like with heads...something about putting the piston 1/2" or 1" down in the cylinder to measure the volume that way...should be pretty easy math...figure out the displacement for whatever your control distance down in the bore, set the piston to that depth (on the non-dome portion), fill and measure the volume, subtract it from the control volume and you have your dome volume.

That sound right?

Regardless-those look pretty cool man-good luck! And I can't wait to see the progress and maybe a video of it running

 

[moper]

It's called the 1" down method, yes.

 

[PocketAces]

I can't recall where I saw it, but there's a method I saw in these pages somewhere to measure the dome with the piston mocked up in the cylinder using a cc kit just like with heads...something about putting the piston 1/2" or 1" down in the cylinder to measure the volume that way...should be pretty easy math...figure out the displacement for whatever your control distance down in the bore, set the piston to that depth (on the non-dome portion), fill and measure the volume, subtract it from the control volume and you have your dome volume.

That sound right?

That's how I measured the dome volume of the TRW pistons earlier in this thread. But you're correct that they need to be in the block. I don't know any way to estimate the dome volume just using measurements and math.

The block has been bored .030" over but not finish honed. I guess if I had some rings, I could put a piston in a bore and do the measurement without crank, rods or bearings.

 

[txstang84]

Ah ok-I knew I read it recently

 

[Hipo65]

Thats kick a$$ man! I too cancled my egge order becouse they wouldnt give date or for that matter even call back to tell me they didnt have a date! Those kanters look sweet! should have mine here this comming week. The only thing diffrent im gonna do is use the thinner walled wrist pins from a 318 to lighten up the rotator even more. a re ballance is $175 & well worth it in my book. Hey what would be the CR with all else the same as yers but with 3.700 dia. & .036 head gaskets installed? Thank you for telling us the unaparent issue with egge allof a sudden:cheers: i went through the same B.S. with a set of injectors for my 12v cummins,not wanten to do that again! By the way what did they say for piston to wall clearance on this slugs?