Bang for the Buck Thread

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Do you have usable heads? If not then get heads as good as your budget will allow and a bigger cam and valvetrain to match your heads . A 360 with good heads will kill a 408 with poor heads. 360 mags with stock mag heads respond very well to better valve springs and a big cam , can you say 360-380.
 
fishmens67 said:
Why would you get a torque convertor ? wasted money when the future is a stroker.
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It won't be wasted at all. Go ahead and converter it for the stroker. It'll be way better than a stock converter, but not quite optimal until he gets the stroker. It'll work fine, just won't be optimized without the stroker. That's all.
 
dogbreath said:
Do you have usable heads? If not then get heads as good as your budget will allow and a bigger cam and valvetrain to match your heads . A 360 with good heads will kill a 408 with poor heads. 360 mags with stock mag heads respond very well to better valve springs and a big cam , can you say 360-380.
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I have the stock magnum ones currently. The end goal the motor will have Good heads and be stroked, so I guess the big question is, dollar for dollar will the stroker kit or new heads give me more usable power off the get go, being that they both cost around the same and i cant afford both at once.
 
fishmens67 said:
Trick Flow heads and Harland Sharp rockers. The best $ 3000 you can spend.
Don't let anyone steer you in the Chinese head direction.
Spend your money once, wisely.
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I’m only going to quote this one post BUT every post by this man is a dead on bulls eye.
 
wes beem said:
I have the stock magnum ones currently. The end goal the motor will have Good heads and be stroked, so I guess the big question is, dollar for dollar will the stroker kit or new heads give me more usable power off the get go, being that they both cost around the same and i cant afford both at once.
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Let's just say with the best cylinder head and right camshaft, a 360 will make more power than an under headed stroker.
 
wes beem said:
If you knew eventually the end goal was to have a stroked 408 with better heads roller rockers ext, do you still think the heads would make the most difference in the short time?
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Yes. Because as it was said earlier, a well prepped & thought out 360 with excellent heads will kill a 408 with stock heads.
wes beem said:
My budget will probably allow me to spend about 3000$ a year on car upgrades. So whatever I do to it, it will have to go a full driving season with just that.
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The cylinder heads is the difference I would go in but I also see zero fault in doing the stroker short block first. It’s part of the goal. Any movement towards the goal is a home run.

The stroker will have a massive off the line or slow rolling low rpm get up and go feeling.
The 5.9 with cylinder heads and a (better) cam will deliver a great top end charge.

Search for part two of that video I posted above. They change the cam, give it TF heads, etc… IMO, it really is an excellent combo they came up with that is easily streetable.

Never mind, I had to go look for it myself.
Here ya go!

 
Building half a long block at a time can be a problem if you don't have a complete thought out plan.

There's more choices of aftermarket pistons than aftermarket heads. You can get a stroker piston to match your stock heads, but then those pistons might not match aftermarket heads in the future. It can happen with stock 68-72cc vs aftermarket 65cc LA heads. Not sure about stock vs aftermarket Magnum heads cc's ?

I'm leaning toward heads first, since you're building this on the payment plan. I do see value of the TF heads as I believe buying ported Edelbrock heads with checked valve job would be same or more money? And not quite the HP potential. So the extra HP potential would be free $$$. It's just the TF head with that cam to achieve 400 hp seems overkill and wasted money.

Wes, you are still going to put new bearings, rings, hone job, oil pump etc on your junkyard short block right?
 
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fishmens67 said:
Let's just say with the best cylinder head and right camshaft, a 360 will make more power than an under headed stroker.
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True.

But x factor here is the 95% street use and only couple times at track. I'm guessing Wes would like to stick with a hydraulic cam too? Power brakes? These are things a stroker makes up for (masks).
 
I didn’t realize from your original post that the stroker was a definite. In that case, I would do frame connectors, and suspension first, heads next, and finish with the stroker short block.

I like Rusty’s idea of getting the converter spec’d for the stroker/cam you plan to run and still upgrade it first off. I’m my experience, the converter makes such a huge difference that it’s worth the upgrade. It won’t be as noticeable with the initial set up, but I guarantee it’ll make the car more fun to drive. If not, I’ll buy you a coke.
 
What rear axle ratio are you using?
An under headed stroker with 3.23's will under perform a good 360 with 3.7's.
 
You've definitely gotten some very good suggestions here, and I wouldn't argue any of them. There's a lot of solid experience on this board. I'll just relay what I was told many years ago, during several discussions with Ray Barton about rebuilding my ailing/failing daily-driven 440 Six Pack. He stressed repeatedly: "Start with the shortblock you want, and build the best one possible. Do you eventually want a stroker? Then build it now, and build it strong. No shortcuts. Get the best machine work possible. Plan for 'em, but you can worry about heads, cams, all that stuff later as money allows. Build the bottom end to withstand anything you could possibly throw at it and you'll never have to think about it again. You'll always have it to build on. Paying for 'good enough for now' is wasting money."

If you scroll back up and watch the video @rumblefish360 posted, that's kind of what they did. Obviously that combo cries out for a cam and heads at the very least, but methinks playing with 500lb/ft would be a laugh riot whilst saving for those other components. Blow a few doors off, pull people out of ditches, maybe remove a few stumps...

Oh, yeah: I once asked Ray about a cam recommendation. He looked at me like I'd asked him for a plaid cat. "I dunno. I don't spec cams. Do what I do--call a cam company. They do it for a living. They know more about that **** than I ever will."
 
NoCar340 said:
You've definitely gotten some very good suggestions here, and I wouldn't argue any of them. There's a lot of solid experience on this board. I'll just relay what I was told many years ago, during several discussions with Ray Barton about rebuilding my ailing/failing daily-driven 440 Six Pack. He stressed repeatedly: "Start with the shortblock you want, and build the best one possible. Do you eventually want a stroker? Then build it now, and build it strong. No shortcuts. Get the best machine work possible. Plan for 'em, but you can worry about heads, cams, all that stuff later as money allows. Build the bottom end to withstand anything you could possibly throw at it and you'll never have to think about it again. You'll always have it to build on. Paying for 'good enough for now' is wasting money."

If you scroll back up and watch the video @rumblefish360 posted, that's kind of what they did. Obviously that combo cries out for a cam and heads at the very least, but methinks playing with 500lb/ft would be a laugh riot whilst saving for those other components. Blow a few doors off, pull people out of ditches, maybe remove a few stumps...

Oh, yeah: I once asked Ray about a cam recommendation. He looked at me like I'd asked him for a plaid cat. "I dunno. I don't spec cams. Do what I do--call a cam company. They do it for a living. They know more about that **** than I ever will."
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I'm surprised he didn't steer you in to some cylinder head work.
Everyone knows the 440 was under headed from the factory, that's why the 383 roadrunner could run along side a 440 magnum.
 
fishmens67 said:
I'm surprised he didn't steer you in to some cylinder head work.
Everyone knows the 440 was under headed from the factory, that's why the 383 roadrunner could run along side a 440 magnum.
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It wasn't that he was steering me toward or away from anything. I just had $x to spend in the moment, and he suggested it all go into the shortblock. At first I was kind of disappointed because, of course, I wanted a go-to-hell Six Pack engine right out of the gate. After some thought, though, I realized he wasn't just trying to sell me parts--he was doing me a favor. Unfortunately, the engine failed catastrophically before it could come to fruition and my meager savings had to go towards a new daily. Such is life.
 
NoCar340 said:
It wasn't that he was steering me toward or away from anything. I just had $x to spend in the moment, and he suggested it all go into the shortblock. At first I was kind of disappointed because, of course, I wanted a go-to-hell Six Pack engine right out of the gate. After some thought, though, I realized he wasn't just trying to sell me parts--he was doing me a favor. Unfortunately, the engine failed catastrophically before it could come to fruition and my meager savings had to go towards a new daily. Such is life.
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I remember those days. Life got in the way of many ventures.
That's why at my age now, I think spending money once for the best is a better bang.
 
NoCar340 said:
You've definitely gotten some very good suggestions here, and I wouldn't argue any of them. There's a lot of solid experience on this board. I'll just relay what I was told many years ago, during several discussions with Ray Barton about rebuilding my ailing/failing daily-driven 440 Six Pack. He stressed repeatedly: "Start with the shortblock you want, and build the best one possible. Do you eventually want a stroker? Then build it now, and build it strong. No shortcuts. Get the best machine work possible. Plan for 'em, but you can worry about heads, cams, all that stuff later as money allows. Build the bottom end to withstand anything you could possibly throw at it and you'll never have to think about it again. You'll always have it to build on. Paying for 'good enough for now' is wasting money."

If you scroll back up and watch the video @rumblefish360 posted, that's kind of what they did. Obviously that combo cries out for a cam and heads at the very least, but methinks playing with 500lb/ft would be a laugh riot whilst saving for those other components. Blow a few doors off, pull people out of ditches, maybe remove a few stumps...

Oh, yeah: I once asked Ray about a cam recommendation. He looked at me like I'd asked him for a plaid cat. "I dunno. I don't spec cams. Do what I do--call a cam company. They do it for a living. They know more about that **** than I ever will."
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(TLA!) Thanks, Like & Agree.
66fyssh said:
Great video @rumblefish360 . They built a monster with that 360 Magnum! Over 500 Ib/ft. at 4100 rpm, damn...
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Thanks. And! Dang straight!

Like I said earlier, I’d do the heads first but in reality, ether is good. Since his plan is a stroker and bad *** heads for power, IMO, what ever he does first is just fine by me and nether is wrong. I certainly don’t see it (stroker first) as a bad thing.
NoCar340 said:
Yeah, things are a lot different at 52 than they were at 27.
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Oh heck yea.
 
Use the gen3 Hemi and brand x formula, great heads and don't need a radical camshaft.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Yes. Because as it was said earlier, a well prepped & thought out 360 with excellent heads will kill a 408 with stock heads.

The cylinder heads is the difference I would go in but I also see zero fault in doing the stroker short block first. It’s part of the goal. Any movement towards the goal is a home run.

The stroker will have a massive off the line or slow rolling low rpm get up and go feeling.
The 5.9 with cylinder heads and a (better) cam will deliver a great top end charge.

Search for part two of that video I posted above. They change the cam, give it TF heads, etc… IMO, it really is an excellent combo they came up with that is easily streetable.

Never mind, I had to go look for it myself.
Here ya go!

Click to expand...

That build right there would definitely make me happy.... A lot of good info here.
 
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