Battery draining fast

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My meter is not adjustable but the first reading was 00 then fluctuating 2-5 on the other brush .

I also saw the firewall to engine ground wire insulation was burnt at both sides of the connector . Which leads me to check the battery negative cable . It was bolted to the water pump , so it could have a bad ground to the block so ground was heading though the firewall to block wire .
Could this be the reason the regulator is burning the two wires inside are they fuses that run vertically in the regulator ? I've now moved the ground to the head bolt that runs though the alternator mount .
 
I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but 4-5 ohms is high for this field resistance (but that is recalling off the top of my head); about 2-3 ohms is spec, I think. I won't be at my data 'til tomorrow night.

Bud, what do you mean by the VR 'burning up'? Are the wire-wound parts burning out? By the way, those are resistors, not fuses.

If the battery (-) cable was not well grounded, then yes, the voltage out of the alternator can be all over the map. Whether it for sure would burn up the VR is hard to gurantee, but I have indeed seen VR's burned out when people disconnected the battery (and so I tell folks to never do that). If there was another battery (-) connection to the frame (so that the starter could crank), than any and all starter current would flow through the engine-to-firewall wire; that would burn it up.
 
Insulation at both ends of the firewall ground cable burnt right off afew inches from connector back on to the wire . The two wire in the regulator are probably resistors now that you mentioned it . I've never had to open one before . Thanks

nm9stheham said:
I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but 4-5 ohms is high for this field resistance (but that is recalling off the top of my head); about 2-3 ohms is spec, I think. I won't be at my data 'til tomorrow night.

Bud, what do you mean by the VR 'burning up'? Are the wire-wound parts burning out? By the way, those are resistors, not fuses.

If the battery (-) cable was not well grounded, then yes, the voltage out of the alternator can be all over the map. Whether it for sure would burn up the VR is hard to gurantee, but I have indeed seen VR's burned out when people disconnected the battery (and so I tell folks to never do that). If there was another battery (-) connection to the frame (so that the starter could crank), than any and all starter current would flow through the engine-to-firewall wire; that would burn it up.
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Insulation at both ends of the firewall ground cable burnt right off afew inches from connector back on to the wire . The two wire in the regulator are probably resistors now that you mentioned it . I've never had to open one before . Thanks

nm9stheham said:
I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but 4-5 ohms is high for this field resistance (but that is recalling off the top of my head); about 2-3 ohms is spec, I think. I won't be at my data 'til tomorrow night.

Bud, what do you mean by the VR 'burning up'? Are the wire-wound parts burning out? By the way, those are resistors, not fuses.

If the battery (-) cable was not well grounded, then yes, the voltage out of the alternator can be all over the map. Whether it for sure would burn up the VR is hard to gurantee, but I have indeed seen VR's burned out when people disconnected the battery (and so I tell folks to never do that). If there was another battery (-) connection to the frame (so that the starter could crank), than any and all starter current would flow through the engine-to-firewall wire; that would burn it up.
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Redfish, I'm trading the Deadfish in for a Camero !!! Then atleast I won't have to worry anymore and maybe sleep ! Lol
 
13.74 volts OK Problem Solved it was the Ground from battery to the water pump instead on the block !
Thanks to everyone who helped especially Pete in NH this guy is brilliant! nm9stheham , Redfish and Phista . Now on to the reverse lights
 
Good Morning,

Wow, So good to hear you found the problem! It's always simple once you find out what's wrong. Replacing that burnt engine to body ground strap is very like to help the lights and everything else.

Please don't trade the fish for a Camaro. If you think old Mopars have problems who can trust a car company that can't keep the ignition keys from falling out!

nm9- My 69 shop manual doesn't give you the field resistance directly but, they do say the current draw on 12v is 2.38 to 2.75 amps so that works out to 4 to 5 ohms.
 
Nah just driving me nuts after eight days of trouble shooting ! I know for a fact that the engine harness and bulk heads won't give her any troubles I went thru everything ! Now on to the interior .starting new thread !
 
Pete in NH said:
nm9- My 69 shop manual doesn't give you the field resistance directly but, they do say the current draw on 12v is 2.38 to 2.75 amps so that works out to 4 to 5 ohms.
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Yep, Pete, I just got ot my info and it says the same.....so much for my memory!
 
Bear in mind that field resistance changed over the years, and gets lower on some of the late model high output stuff. As long as it's not a dead short, it's probably OK.

The "ultimate test" is to "full field" the alternator and see what it outputs.

If the output is lower than expected, you might have one or more diode gone, or a problem with the stator, or you can even develop turns-to-turns shorts in the rotor, but rare.

Once you've been through a problem like this involving brush holders, you can pretty much troubleshoot them visually.......simply pull the brushes and inspect.

I used to waste NO time in screwing with this stuff. Get the alternator off it it won't cooperate and on the bench where you can see it.
 
Here's the pic. Is this correct the wire's are together in a harness with what looked to be the original ground only it has this crappy crimp and the nut was loose prolly because its hard to reach it. Well I'm making a new harness in the am . So can I run from the starter relay to the positive post directly and cut out that what someone called the daisy chain? I believe a shorter direct route would be less resistance in the charging system.
Thanks Bud
 

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Hard to see but if I have this figured out right per the colors......

The big wire has to run direct from the battery to the starter.

The brown is likely not a ground (if that was what you are asking); if it is what I think it is, it comes from the starter relay and carrires the current that activates the starter.

Is the smaller red wire jumping over to the starter relay big lug? It can come driect fromt he battery to the starter relay's big lug if you like, but if you have also run the alternator output direct to the starter relay's big lug, then when this gets running, watch for voltage pulsations from the alternator (like flickering headlights). That may not happen, just be aware of the possibility; small resistances in the charging system chain can help stablize its operation.

The lug on the smaller red wire is garbage!

Is this a 273 engine?
 
Bud,

Thanks for the picture. It's becoming clear someone was getting creative in the wiring in this car and they did not do a very good job of it. Where does the other end of that lighter gauge red wire go?

As Nm9 points out the brown wire is the starter solenoid wire from the starter relay. The battery cable to the starter is a very high current connection and needs to be clean and tight with a good lock washer under the nut. I agree with Nm9, that terminal on the lighter gauge red wire looks very poorly done. If you have other places in the wiring with this type of poor work you're going to have no end of intermittent problems. This is why I had asked for some pictures of the general wiring under the hood. If all the wiring is in poor condition it may be time for some new wiring harnesses or at least some rewiring.

The correct wiring of the charging path should be- A black wire from the alternator output stud to the bulk head connector an then to one side of the ammeter. A red wire from the other side of the ammeter to the bulk head connector an then through the fusible link to the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay. Part of the positive battery cable should also connect to the 5/16" stud on the starter relay to complete the charging circuit. Can you post a picture of the starter relay area so we see the wiring there?
 
Yes it is a 273 . I'll post pics of the firewall just getting up over here .
Thanks gentleman .
 
Here's the bulk head and starter relay after I ran the new return wire to the battery . The red smaller wire went to the larger terminal on the starter relay.
 

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Okay, So, maybe all you need to do is clean up that ring terminal on the smaller red wire at the starter. Or, a new red #8 gauge wire between the positive battery terminal an the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay would be the way the factory wired it.You also might want to get under the dash and make sure the ammeter terminals are clean and tight. Also, check out the battery cables. The negative cable should run to the closest intake manifold bolt. It's not a bad idea to use a negative cable with a separate smaller wire that you could ground to the body close to the battery

You didn't mention what lead you to look into this wiring again, I'm assuming it was not charging again. Check both battery cables an make sure they are clean and tight on the battery terminals and that there is no corrosion from battery acid that has gotten into the cables.
 
The brown is likely not a ground (if that was what you are asking); if it is what I think it is, it comes from the starter relay and carrires the current that activates the starter.

Sorry earlier in the thread I questioned a black wire that was cut off which was later found to be the Ground to the frame . The red and brown wires were all harnessed together along with the butchered ground . Thats when I spliced the battery and original ground and got good readings . Few days later it stoped charging again . Then I saw the connection at the starter is the picture I posted. Pete's been kind enough to walk me through the correct connections.
 
Pete in NH said:
Okay, So, maybe all you need to do is clean up that ring terminal on the smaller red wire at the starter. Or, a new red #8 gauge wire between the positive battery terminal an the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay would be the way the factory wired it.You also might want to get under the dash and make sure the ammeter terminals are clean and tight. Also, check out the battery cables. The negative cable should run to the closest intake manifold bolt. It's not a bad idea to use a negative cable with a separate smaller wire that you could ground to the body close to the battery

You didn't mention what lead you to look into this wiring again, I'm assuming it was not charging again. Check both battery cables an make sure they are clean and tight on the battery terminals and that there is no corrosion from battery acid that has gotten into the cables.
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It stopped charging again . I did clean all the connecting terminals ,rings bulk connectors and sprayed with Electrical cleaner when this all began . I removed the red wire from the starter ( smaller one ) and the red wire you now see is going directly to the positive post . I terminated the small one at the starter and replaced it with a 8 gauge red . Battery post are clean . The only thing I have not done is the ampmeter . got to pull the cluster to get to the ampmeter to give it a good look .
 
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