Battery draining fast

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Bud27 said:
Some one should make a sticky of a picture with all the relays labeled for dummies like me !
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Good idea, but they moved around as the cars progressed through the years. So then the questions would be "Why doesn't my car look like this?" or "This sticky is all messed up; my car is not like that and I am sure it is factory." etc., ad nauseum .....LOL
 
Q-tip navel gel and wire brush till I can replace it .
 
Ok can anyone tell me if this cable completes the circuit from the alternator it's cut off and runs to stater relay ?
 

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I found out thru schematic this is the missing link . The black wire runs to the starter relay and feeds up to the battery . Going to replace in the morning and hopefully DD can Cruz to school Monday ,
 
I can't really tell what that is a photo of. The starter relay/starter circuit should not have anything to do with the charging circuit.

The starter circuit should have a heavy wire from the battery to the 5/16" stud on the starter relay. A wire runs down to the starter solenoid from the relay. There is also the heavy red cable from the battery. On the starter relay there is a wire from the ignition switch to turn on the relay in the crank position of the ignition switch and if its an automatic transmission car a wire from the neutral start safety switch. Both of these wires energize the starter coil and this should only happen if the car is in park or neutral.

The charging circuit is: The heavy black wire from the alternator output stud, to a bulk head connector pin, to a connection of wires Chrysler calls a "splice joint" a black wire runs from this splice to one side of the ammeter. The other side of the ammeter has a red wire the runs back out through another bulk head connector pin to the fusible link. The other end of the link goes to the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay and on to the positive side of the battery. This battery stud connection point on the starter relay is the only point the starting circuit and charging circuit come together and it is only used as a tie point. One circuit really should not have any thing to do with the other.

The more you tell us about the wiring in this car, the more I think its really been hacked up and it may be time to think about some new wiring harnesses to put it back the way it left the factory if the car is ever to be reliable. Especially if its going to be driven daily by your daughter.
 
Pete in NH said:
I can't really tell what that is a photo of. The starter relay/starter circuit should not have anything to do with the charging circuit.

The starter circuit should have a heavy wire from the battery to the 5/16" stud on the starter relay. A wire runs down to the starter solenoid from the relay. There is also the heavy red cable from the battery. On the starter relay there is a wire from the ignition switch to turn on the relay in the crank position of the ignition switch and if its an automatic transmission car a wire from the neutral start safety switch. Both of these wires energize the starter coil and this should only happen if the car is in park or neutral.

The charging circuit is: The heavy black wire from the alternator output stud, to a bulk head connector pin, to a connection of wires Chrysler calls a "splice joint" a black wire runs from this splice to one side of the ammeter. The other side of the ammeter has a red wire the runs back out through another bulk head connector pin to the fusible link. The other end of the link goes to the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay and on to the positive side of the battery. This battery stud connection point on the starter relay is the only point the starting circuit and charging circuit come together and it is only used as a tie point. One circuit really should not have any thing to do with the other.

The more you tell us about the wiring in this car, the more I think its really been hacked up and it may be time to think about some new wiring harnesses to put it back the way it left the factory if the car is ever to be reliable. Especially if its going to be driven daily by your daughter.
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In the diagram it shows that the black wire goes to the same contact point as the return wire from the relay its the only way that I see for the charge to get back to the battery . I'm not saying your wrong but the wire is hacked and with charged battery it starts and runs good . I've googled pics and other cars have two wires going to battery . I'm headed out to replace it now and I'll post what happens later . Thanks for your input and patience !
 
The other end of the link goes to the 5/16" battery stud on the starter relay and on to the positive side of the battery. This battery stud connection point on the starter relay is the only point the starting circuit and charging circuit come together. Quote above .

This is the wire that is hacked . The only wire on the positive side of the battery which is going to the starter solenoid on the car now . No way to get charge back from alternator with out the second return wire that's directly connected to the red wire which is what I'm replacing
 

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I'm afraid to say, but I'd guess you are on the wrong track. I'd say, offhand, that someone has done some sort of ammeter bypass.

What you need to do is get the engine running at a good "fast idle" and check battery voltage at the alternator output stud and at the battery. if it's the same at both points, and low, below 12V you are not charging.

What do you have for an alternator / regulator?

A.........Old style, 69/ earlier with one green field wire?

B.........70/ later style with two field wire connections at the alternator?

C........Some swap or aftermarket alternator?
 
Hi 67Dart273,


It took a bit of digging but we finally established that the alternator/regulator system is a single field wire round back alternator and the older single wire regulator which has likely been replaced by an electronic equivalent type.

We're trying to establish what the charging circuit path looks like but, its becoming clear that the electrical system in the car has been hacked up pretty well and who knows what's in there now. It is clear that from voltage measurements the battery is not being charged, the system voltage is below 12 volts at best and as low as 9.

Bud 27 seems to jump around a lot and it's been kind of difficult to get some basic tests made.
 
67Dart273 said:
I'm afraid to say, but I'd guess you are on the wrong track. I'd say, offhand, that someone has done some sort of ammeter bypass.

What you need to do is get the engine running at a good "fast idle" and check battery voltage at the alternator output stud and at the battery. if it's the same at both points, and low, below 12V you are not charging.

What do you have for an alternator / regulator?

A.........Old style, 69/ earlier with one green field wire?

B.........70/ later style with two field wire connections at the alternator?

C........Some swap or aftermarket alternator?
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A old style and its not going over 12 volts . I did a continuity test from the firewall and there's continuity from the black going in to the red coming out on the ammeter .
 
I've ran a new green wire from the single field round back alternator .
I've tested the big black wire from the alternator to the bulk head connector pin for continuity .
Tested the black wire going thru the amp meter coming out red back to the bulk head connector FOR continuity .
The blue wire has 12 volts to ground .
The green wire tested 2.4 volts
Traced the red wire which is connected to the battery cable at the starter .
Ran a black #14 wire stranded to regulator looped over to alternator housing straight to the battery's negative pig tail .
Removed rust from the fuse holders with navel gel and steel wool q- tip
Cleaned every connection in the engine compartment
Took bulkhead connectors off and filed the blades and cleaned the female contacts
Replaced alternator
Replaced fusible link
Repaired crappy splices
Pulled out the radio the previous owner installed with twisted wires and black tape .
 
Okay, 2.4 volts from the green wire to ground is too low. It should be somewhere between 5 to 7 or so volts. Try disconnecting the green wire at the regulator end and connecting it directly to the blue wire on the regulator. Do this only for an instant. The battery voltage should come up to 16 to 17 volts. If it does the regulator or it's grounding are likely bad.
 
I see you've pulled out the radio, which is another way of solving the problem I have encountered in the past. If the aftermarket radio has "electronic" tuning, suggest checking out the power leads to the radio. There are usually two power leads to this kind of radio. One is switched, so your radio goes off when the key is switched off. The other is un-switched to preserve station and clock settings. The problem I have run across is that the portion of the radio powered by the un-switched lead fails in such a way that it takes the battery down. I don't know how often it happens, but I've had three such failures over the years; 1 GM-Delco, 1 Sony, 1 Jensen.
 
Removed regulator and it was burnt ,so I replaced it and it burnt too so maybe the blue wire has short or bad ignition ? I already cleaned up the wires from radio . Pete how can I test the ignition switch .
 
I just responded to your PM and then saw your last posting here. If you fried the second new regulator lets stop right here and find out why that happened.

Does your meter have an ohms position on it and if so do you know how to use it?

Also, lets pull that alternator off the engine and can you take a close up picture of the field terminal area on the back of the alternator?

If your meter has an ohms position but , you don't know how to use it, I'll walk you through some tests.
 
Pete in NH said:
I just responded to your PM and then saw your last posting here. If you fried the second new regulator lets stop right here and find out why that happened.

Does your meter have an ohms position on it and if so do you know how to use it?

Also, lets pull that alternator off the engine and can you take a close up picture of the field terminal area on the back of the alternator?

If your meter has an ohms position but , you don't know how to use it, I'll walk you through some tests.
Click to expand...

I o have a digital multimeter with ohms and I do know how to use it in ohms function.
Give ma about 1/2 hour got to feed the kids then ill pull the altenator post pics what do you want me to test with the meter ?
 
Here you go .
 

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Here you go
 

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Here you go
 

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Here you go
 

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Regulator
 

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Okay, I didn't think anyone still made the old vibrating relay type of regulator, everything I've seen lately has been an electronic version. It's not a problem, it will work, although not the best for long life.

Take your meter and set it to the lowest ohms range on it. Now touch the two meter leads together. The meter should read zero or close to it. Some meters have an adjustment that you can use to make the meter read zero when you touch the two leads together, if yours does, use the control to make the meter read zero with the two leads touching together. If yours doesn't have a zero adjust and the meter reads something low like 2 or 3 ohms remember that number.

Now, put one meter lead on the alternator case and the other on the field terminal with the tab connection that you connect the green field wire to. The meter should read 4 to 5 ohms. That is the field coil resistance. If your meter did not read zero with the leads together, subtract that number I asked you remember form the number the meter reads on the field terminal to the alternator case. The result should still be 4 to 5.

Now take the meter lead that you had on the field terminal and move it to the screw in the center of the other brush holder. This time the meter should read zero or the number you got when you touched the two meter leads together.

Let me know what meter readings you obtained.
 
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