Comp Cam/lifter failure

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ns1rm21, had TWO Comp XE 268 big block cam go bad on the run stand within minutes. Summit sent him a second cam and 3 weeks later it went bad on run stand.

I sold him a NOS MP cam from the late 90's early 2000's. Been fine for two years now.

Bought two Bullet solid cams since. One with lifter holes and has many miles. Second has just run stand on it so far. No issues so far with those.
 
autoxcuda said:
ns1rm21, had TWO Comp XE 268 big block cam go bad on the run stand within minutes. Summit sent him a second cam and 3 weeks later it went bad on run stand.

I sold him a NOS MP cam from the late 90's early 2000's. Been fine for two years now.

Bought two Bullet solid cams since. One with lifter holes and has many miles. Second has just run stand on it so far. No issues so far with those.
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In your opinion, did the cam go bad or was it a lifter failure? Was it any particular cylinder or lobe?
 
When I had the 440 done in 2013 I went with Hughes Engines FT cam and valve train. I had heard things about Comp Cams even back then, but what sold me was Hughes' hyd FT profiles were as aggressive as Comp's hyd roller series. When I asked Dave how he was able to do that, he said its because all he does is Mopars.
I've only put about 6K miles on the engine in 7+ years, always use VR-1, and no issues so far.
 
It seems like if you want fewer problems you have to check everything including camshaft lobe taper for FT cams. Assembled heads, con rods, FT concave ground, everything can be off these days. Maybe hardness testing will have to be included before assembly.
 
bobsgtx said:
It seems like if you want fewer problems you have to check everything including camshaft lobe taper for FT cams. Assembled heads, con rods, FT concave ground, everything can be off these days. Maybe hardness testing will have to be included before assembly.
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Yep, it's all taking a step back where you need all the tools to check everything as a home builder.
 
I have a very fine machinist, we've been together since high school.
I always check his work, he's one of those guys who's never wrong, - but not always right. lol
 
Again though, some of the problem continues to be operator error. No matter how much you preach good camshaft break in procedure to people, I'll be DAMNED if they won't go home and fire a FRESH ENGINE and let that thing sit there and idle. Some people are just that stupid.
 
Lifter rotation can very easily be verified before the danged thing is even bolted together. I do it on EVERY flat tappet engine I do. Has saved my *** a couple times. Not an absolute guarantee....
 
krazykuda said:
:bs_flag:


Every operator that runs a machine has to do their proper check parts to ensure quality... If they do their proper check parts and react accordingly to the data, they will have 99.96% good parts, or .04% defective parts...

It's simple SPC (Statistical Process Control)...

Plus if they DO find any defective parts, they can quarantine that batch and 100% inspect them on their gauges to find any bad parts and keep them from getting out the door...

Either the operators are lazy and not doing their proper check parts at the designated intervals and reacting to the data, or their management is not allowing them to shut down the machine to make the proper adjustments to keep the process in control...

Sometimes management pushes output vs quality and this is what you get... They want to keep their production numbers up vs trying to put out a quality part... Numbers become more important than quality to make them look better on paper to the executives and stock holders...
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Six Sigma - Comp Cams DON'T have it !
 
toolmanmike said:
In your opinion, did the cam go bad or was it a lifter failure? Was it any particular cylinder or lobe?
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Multiple lifters/lobes in each case. Used break in oil, pre lubed, comp red lube brush on, pre lubed on run stand just before startup. Rounded lobes, was concave-ing lifters. Less than 10 minutes on run stand.

The chicken or the egg kinda deal. He’d have to pipe in to give opinion.

Same process with 20+ year old MP cam and lifters few months after. No issues whatsoever.

Since then, He’s run Barton cam (Bullet) with those special steel solid lifter on a 528 Hemi and a 500 BB with Bullet solid with EDM lifters. Both no issues. He’s impressed with Bullet for all of what they brought to the plate.
 
autoxcuda said:
Multiple lifters/lobes in each case. Used break in oil, pre lubed, comp red lube brush on, pre lubed on run stand just before startup. Rounded lobes, was concave-ing lifters. Less than 10 minutes on run stand.

The chicken or the egg kinda deal. He’d have to pipe in to give opinion.

Same process with 20+ year old MP cam and lifters few months after. No issues whatsoever.

Since then, He’s run Barton cam (Bullet) with those special steel solid lifter on a 528 Hemi and a 500 BB with Bullet solid with EDM lifters. Both no issues. He’s impressed with Bullet for all of what they brought to the plate.
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I "guess" if there's a silver lining, it did it on the run stand.
 
I lost a Comp SFT, my buddy lost a Mopar SFT after many years/miles. I went Comp solid roller, he went with the same SFT Comp that I lost. Zero issues with either. Neighbor lost a hyd GM perf cam in an SBC and another buddy lost a Ford cam in his SBF. It's not just Comp.
 
For a cam to fail in 10 minutes there is obviously something drastically wrong like with surface finishes or serious mechanical alignment problems like worn lifter bores or something causing partial oil film thickness (assuming you followed the manufacturers start-up and break in procedure). I have a hard time believing it could be a lubricant issue if you are running the correct viscosity. Lack of anti wear additives would be a longer term issue. Just my $0.02 :)
 
Dcuda69 said:
I lost a Comp SFT, my buddy lost a Mopar SFT after many years/miles. I went Comp solid roller, he went with the same SFT Comp that I lost. Zero issues with either. Neighbor lost a hyd GM perf cam in an SBC and another buddy lost a Ford cam in his SBF. It's not just Comp.
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It's not just Comp and it's not just parts. There's also some operator error in the mix. Not saying that happened to yall, but that's part of the equation, too.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It's not just Comp and it's not just parts. There's also some operator error in the mix. Not saying that happened to yall, but that's part of the equation, too.
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Agree. My Comp had about 800 mi on it(followed all the normal flat tappet routines, not my 1st flat tappet build by any means, Brad Penn oil, 2k for 20min, checked lifter rotation, etc, etc,) My buddies Mopar had 20k+ mi. on it. Why would it crap the bed after that many miles? Not sure about the SBC or SBF but appears really random.
 
Dcuda69 said:
Agree. My Comp had about 800 mi on it(followed all the normal flat tappet routines, not my 1st flat tappet build by any means, Brad Penn oil, 2k for 20min, checked lifter rotation, etc, etc,) My buddies Mopar had 20k+ mi. on it. Why would it crap the bed after that many miles? Not sure about the SBC or SBF but appears really random.
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I bet somehow a lifter or two stopped spinning.
 
1MeanA said:
For a cam to fail in 10 minutes there is obviously something drastically wrong like with surface finishes or serious mechanical alignment problems like worn lifter bores or something causing partial oil film thickness (assuming you followed the manufacturers start-up and break in procedure). I have a hard time believing it could be a lubricant issue if you are running the correct viscosity. Lack of anti wear additives would be a longer term issue. Just my $0.02 :)
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The two cams were identical part numbers both from Summit just two weeks apart.
So probably from the same manufacturing lot made at same time.
 
Kern Dog said:
What some people may not know is that Comp Cams has a little more than HALF of the Mopar camshaft and lifter market. They alone sell more cams than all other competitors combined.
This means that since they sell in greater numbers, they will have more failures simply due to the sale numbers they have.
This is not excusing them. They make quality parts but some junk does slip through.
I bought a cam in 2018 that had jagged edges on several lobes like it was ground to spec but not checked for quality control.
In 2006 I had 2 of their XE285HL cams crap out.
The absolute best insurance you can have is GOOD oil. NO additives, just dedicated high performance oil. It has been reported that pour-in additives add nothing of value and can conflict with the additive components in the oil you're using.
Brad Penn.
Joe Gibbs.
Valvoline VR 1.
NO detergents either...I made the mistake of using this oil:

View attachment 1715987520

View attachment 1715987521

Synthetics are good, right? ZDDP too? It must be great oil.

View attachment 1715987522

Uhh, what is this?

View attachment 1715987523

The SN, SM and SL designation are HIGH detergent specs.
The oil had ZDDP but the detergent scrubbed it off the parts instead of letting it stay in place and protect the metal. This oil led to this:

View attachment 1715987524

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10 lobes all failing at slightly different rates. No change in valve lash settings led to this. I ran VR 1 for years but switched to this oil in March 2021. I've driven about 1600 miles in that time and this happened.
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Man that sucks..
 
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