Dyno next week!

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Your cam then is right in line with mine, so my guess is still the same. Pull the secondary PV. It will be more than streetable.
 
Well guys, I did get to the dyno Wednesday, but had to cut it way short due to oil pressure issues. Dyno guy noticed it right off the bat, but here's what we did, so far.

Fired right up like it was running an hour ago. Brought it up to 185 degrees and "put a load on it" to seat the rings. Oil pressure never varied from 44psi to 48 psi.

He then did 2 pulls from 2500 to 4000, just to get everything broken in. Shut er down, go adjust valves, do a compression check and check for leaks(friggin Milodon 1 piece pan gasket!)...minor.

So at this point he(we) were a bit concerned with the oil pressure, so we agreed to do a 5000rpm pull....if pressure was better. It wasn't. He aborted the pull at 4800RPM due to 44PSI. So here's what I got so far;

water 185, turning my mech water pump and my mech fuel pump(gonna have to change that)...AND it was waay rich, like 11.2:1 rich

at 4800 RPM we got 539HP and 509 ft/lbs.

My cam and intake are supposed to pull real hard from 3500-7000, so I THINK powerwise, I'm happy. At least as far as I could go....also fuel pressure died at 4500 to 4.2 psi.

My thoughts are once I lean this thing out and get a Carter 7psi street/strip pump, I'm pretty confident this thing will make 575 up higher in the RPM range. I hope! I WAS planning a 7000 rpm pull, had everything worked out and I will eventually.

Soooo the oil pressure thing. I get home and call Obi Wan Kenobi (Brian) and we figured it out. Friggin Comp rollers are puking oil like crazy from top and bottom of the lifter bores.

I mic'd one of my old Comp flat tappets and it's .9035. Mic'd one of the Comp solid rollers and AHAA, it's .9025! I have no idea what the hell Comp would be thinking to use 2 different dimentions for the same application. That a lot of extra clearance x 16.

So, my man might have a set on the shelf that are .903- something, or he's gonna give Comp a call. They apparantly made 2 sizes.

All that being said, the Dyno owner feels bad, tells me bring er back when it's all worked out and we'll run it through the paces, on the house. Good dude.

I will definitely give you guys the real numbers very soon...I hope.
 
Dang Mike. Too bad you didn't get a full pull but other than the extra work, no harm, no foul. At least your oil pressure problem wasn't a crank or bearings. Those darned roller lifters. Lot's of people have pressure problems with them being too short. Like you said, clearance x 16. Good luck to you when you get back to the dyno. We will be watching. tmm
 
That oil pressure is low and weird, what was cold start up pressure? What oil pump? Any oil mods? What thickness of oil? I am sure if Brian built it, he did not forget the oil plug in the back, but could not hurt to check!
 
Hope you get the oil pressure situation straightened out. Sounds like you're on top of that :thumbrig:. The Fuel pressure & carb tuning are really minor issues, for now.

Something with those numbers below aren't kosher though?
"4800 RPM we got 539HP and 509 ft/lbs".

509 lbs ft @ 4800 is more like 465hp at that point...
 
OldmanRick said:
Hope you get the oil pressure situation straightened out. Sounds like you're on top of that :thumbrig:. The Fuel pressure & carb tuning are really minor issues, for now.

Something with those numbers below aren't kosher though?
"4800 RPM we got 539HP and 509 ft/lbs".

509 lbs ft @ 4800 is more like 465hp at that point...
Click to expand...


Corrected or Actual at that RPM?
 
OK. I'll try again. Made 2 posts tonite around 8 o'clock and neither one made it. Don't know why, but I'll make it short here. Hopefully it goes thru this time.

So. Oil pump is Melling. Same one that gave me well over 70psi from 2500 on up, in November. It looked fine inside, no issues.

Brian built this thing originally in late 2010 and no. The Jedi forgets nothing!

Only thing I forgot was to prime it BEFORE I put on the intake. I woulda seen the hemmoraging right there and then.

Dyno guy "saving" the 16th this month for me. I will hopefully have everything straightened out and have some real good numbers to post. Hopefully.

Dyno numbers were C_TQ and C_HP, I'm pretty sure that means corrected?

What bugged me is it also said A/F left 14.96 and A/F right 14.04. I thought MAN that's lean, dyno guys says "no. Those numbers are Lambda." "it's more like 11.3:1"

What the heck is Lambda? Also anyone know exactly what the inertia factor means?
 
Lambda is a value that comes via the O2 sensor.....Not sure where your posted numbers work out? But I found this chart on another site? Everyone seems to agree that 14.7 A/F equals 1.0 on their charts?

Lambda AFR
0.686 10.08
0.696 10.23
0.706 10.38
0.716 10.53
0.727 10.69
0.739 10.86
0.750 11.03
0.762 11.20
0.774 11.38
0.787 11.57
0.800 11.76
0.814 11.96
0.828 12.17
0.842 12.38
0.857 12.60
0.873 12.83
0.889 13.07
0.905 13.31
0.923 13.57
0.941 13.84
0.960 14.11
0.980 14.40
1.000 14.70
1.037 15.25
1.078 15.84
1.121 16.48
1.169 17.18
1.220 17.93
1.276 18.76
1.337 19.66
1.405 20.66


As far as the TQ/HP curve, just remember, horsepower can't surpass torque until 5252rpm's or higher.
 
OldmanRick said:
Lambda is a value that comes via the O2 sensor.....Not sure where your posted numbers work out? But I found this chart on another site? Everyone seems to agree that 14.7 A/F equals 1.0 on their charts?

Lambda AFR
0.686 10.08
0.696 10.23
0.706 10.38
0.716 10.53
0.727 10.69
0.739 10.86
0.750 11.03
0.762 11.20
0.774 11.38
0.787 11.57
0.800 11.76
0.814 11.96
0.828 12.17
0.842 12.38
0.857 12.60
0.873 12.83
0.889 13.07
0.905 13.31
0.923 13.57
0.941 13.84
0.960 14.11
0.980 14.40
1.000 14.70
1.037 15.25
1.078 15.84
1.121 16.48
1.169 17.18
1.220 17.93
1.276 18.76
1.337 19.66
1.405 20.66


As far as the TQ/HP curve, just remember, horsepower can't surpass torque until 5252rpm's or higher.
Click to expand...

That only holds true on Superflow dynamometers as they use the same scale for HP and TQ...DTS does not.
 
That only holds true on Superflow dynamometers as they use the same scale for HP and TQ...DTS does not.
Click to expand...

But horsepower is a mathematical function of torque... no matter what dyno.
It's either 539HP / 590Torque @4800 or 465HP / 509Torque @4800 :)
 
1.0! Something don't sound right with this whole dyno deal. How can you have an air/fuel thats 1.0

Had issues with tach signal also. And his water pump acting up, too.

Jeez. What's the inertia factor thingy mean? The only thing now that I KNOW was right was his oil pressure gauge. Mine read 46psi at home with a 2800 RPM drill.
 
as said HP is a function of the torque x rpm divide by 525....your hp posted can not be higher then the torque posted until the rpm is higher then 5252....

(Torque X RPM) / 5252 = Horsepower

As far as the TQ/HP curve, just remember, horsepower can't surpass torque until 5252rpm's or higher
 
Brought this thread back from the dead because I THINK I got my oil pressure issue straightened. I actually tried to upload a short Quicktime video of my lifters hemorrhaging, but it kept telling me "invalid file". The prob was at max lift the lifter oil galley holes were being exposed and every lifter was puking badly.....wish I could post the darn vid. I really wanted you guys to see it.

Anyhow I sent my cam back to Comp, they lowered the base circle .040. Also found a lifter that fits my bores nicely. .9036 vs The Comps .9025.

So now when priming with my 2500RPM drill, I'm getting 62PSI. That's fine with me but my fear is that's all I'm gonna get. No real reason to believe it, but sh%t happens to ME!

I don't want to go high volume pump, but Id like to see a bit more pressure when priming.

My guru, Brian(IMM) tells me take a pill and relax...all will be fine. I belive him, but again, I have the worst luck.(he knows that from experience)

Bottom line: I'd hate like hell to get back on the dyno and get it warmed up and see low pressure.

Should I put a stiifer spring in my pump, or shim it, or do nothing? Curious as to what you all think.
 
Although I "could" see myself having a difference of opinion on some superficial power producing component with IMM, as far as any internal hardware is concerned, if Brian Hafliger says "chill", well.....:).

Let me just say that I've used many different drills to prime over the years...some big/strong and some kinda wimpy. It really just depended on what was close by on the bench...lol! With that said, I never used those numbers as a guide to how much pressure a engine would make in the real world, just that it made pressure at all...:).

You'll never know how fast that drill was actually spinning, but if indeed was at 2500rpm's, that's equivalent to 5k crank speed. I still believe there's some pressure left in it at a little higher rpm, and if that is the case, I could see you around 60lbs at full speed even with the engine at operating temp.

There is always the oil viscosity to play with, if need be, but I think you'll be fine. Just glad to see the cam/lifter issue is resolved. :thumbrig:
 
Doesn't matter what the dyno says..matters what numbers it run at the track..
 
Think I'm right on the edge...I was thinking 60PSI, too. Don't like that number at 6800RPM, though. Hence my concern. OMR, what about shimming my spring "a bit"? Never done it, but heard some guys do.

Oh. Dyno numbers aren't the issue right now. The dyno is to make sure no leaks, good oil pressure, etc...BEFORE I wrestle the thing in the car. I know what it did at the track before this big upgrade so when done I'm expecting better numbers naturally:coffee2:
 
Ironmike said:
OMR, what about shimming my spring "a bit"? Never done it, but heard some guys do.
Click to expand...

Me neither Mike, I never shimmed also. The real performance builds that I did had Melling's high volume pumps...SBM, SBC, BBC, Pont, etc! And did have a little extra oil capacity. But even with the bearing clearance on the high side of stock, 70lbs cold & 60/65lbs hot at peak rpm was enough so I never lost a bottom end turning upwards of 7000 rpm's.

I honestly, at this point, don't remember what pump you're running? I'm not sure what kind of deal you have with the dyno shop, but if the numbers don't work out for you, and with time permitting, you may want to bring a HV/HP pump to try? I don't think you'll need it, but.....

The 10lbs per 1000rpm's is cool imo, as long as it applies to a somewhat mild bracket or street build. I drove several cars with SBM/SBC & stock pumps with 50/55lbs, all the way to 6000/6500 that lived forever.

I guess where I'm going with is, a well build SBM engine @ 60lbs & enough volume/capacity, can turn close to 7k almost forever. Meaning if you lose a moderate sized main bearing engine like this, it's not because of oil pressure, imo. FE Fords, big Olds, Buicks, Pontiacs, well that's a whole different issue.:D
 
I'm running a standard Melling pump. Only has 4000 miles on it and looks good inside. I just heard this morn that someone makes a spring kit that picks you up 20 percent pressure. The dude said he thought it was a Mopar Performance part.

Man I'm tellin 'ya, someone told me at the track last year running a roller in these old LA blocks is "easy". Yeah, right.
 

The MRL lifters are the cats ***. They fit tighter in the bores, BUT...gotta remember now you're throwing pushrod oiling AND direct roller oiling all at a motor that wasn't designed for it.I'm certain now that after putting in the MP spring, I'll be good to go. Probably don't need it but it'll make me feel better.
 
jimjimjimmy said:
dosen't the M.R.L. roller lifters address all these issues ?
Click to expand...

Yes they do. MRL's dropped in with no issues and great oil pressure. I still have room for another .15" lift or so before the oil bands are exposed.
 
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