Flat tappet to solid roller...

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Loving this thread! Time to sticky this one IMO.

FWIW/FYI

Crane makes the gear that Hughesengines has for what ever cam your going to run reguardless of its metal make up.

Crane Cams is the only manufacturer I know of that makes iron gear roller cams. There part numbers end in "IG" which of course stands for iron gear.
And with that, you can run your stock, MP upgraded intermediate drive shaft and gear.
 
OK, all the parts are there and I am BROKE ;-)
I got my Lunati lifters, cam and other stuff needed. As usuall it turned out to cost more then I initially planned ;-)
I can break out all the cost and make a list later if there is intrest.

I got Lunati lifters PN 72421-16
Vertical Bar Solid Roller Lifters - Chrysler V8 B 383 - 440 (Set Of 16) - Lunati Power

Also idea came to mind to use Weiand tunnel ram intake. I actually found it in my country for sale which is shocking. Thing is that it is for one carb (i know you can swap tops with it).
Does it make sense to go there? :) It looks REALLY good ;-)
 
IMO, not really, no. IF you decide to run it as a 2X4, then maybe. I say maybe because of the cost and headache factor in set up. However, I'll never say never to dual quads. Tunnel ram or low level dual plane. But it is expensive and troublesome to set up in the beginning.
Once sorted out & operating well, you'll forget a out the cost.
 
rumblefish360 said:
IMO, not really, no. IF you decide to run it as a 2X4, then maybe. I say maybe because of the cost and headache factor in set up. However, I'll never say never to dual quads. Tunnel ram or low level dual plane. But it is expensive and troublesome to set up in the beginning.
Once sorted out & operating well, you'll forget a out the cost.
Click to expand...

OK so if 2x4 then what cfm? I have one 600cfm double pumper, should I get another one? :)
Actually used 600cfm dp is not that hard to get here in 200$ range.
Lots of Chevy guys here so there are some "universal" stuff.

What do you mean by expensive and hard to setup? Problem is that I would probably need to learn as I go cause there is nobody to do it for me here. On the plus side I'd learn some good stuff so why not? Would be good fun I guess...

We will see but it is possible that I will postpone tunnel ram idea to late summer next year. Would be best to gather all the parts. After all swapping intake is no big deal, but it is VERY tempting to go this way so all advice is more then welcome.

And yea, expensive.... Like anything is cheap with this hobby ;-)
 
600 X 2 should cover the bases.

Expensive because it's twice the price for carbs. You need two. Not an average air cleaner most times, not cheap. Carb linkages cost over stock, twice the parts to tune if you go deep into the carbs, but who knows, will the OOTB condition be good? Etc...
 
Hello again!

I wanted to report that cam swap is done. I started last week and it took me 4 days after work including heads machining.
Where disassembly was 1 day with heads off the motor.

Heads work:

I bought Comp Cams tool to machine my heads for double springs. When I got it I had serious doubts about this thing lasting the whole process, but my doubts were not justified. It did the job very well. It took me under two hours with two heads, I took my time with cooling it down etc.
I can highly recommend this, level of satisfaction after finishing this task is high ;-)

First conclusion is that as it is easy to remove single springs with hand spring tool, putting double springs on was not that much fun and in the end I asked my machine shop to put the springs on while machining the heads. When they saw I machined the guides and they saw my tool, they did the assembly for free ;-)
Putting the heads on and torquing them down went smooth and no issues. The biggest pain in A-Body with big block is headers(I have TTI headers). They are in a way and it takes lots of fiddling to torque the heads down. I used ARP bolts and can highly recommend them.

Camshaft install:

I am really impressed by the quality and finish of Howards cam you guys recommended! Also the Summit timing set with Torrington bearing was VERY well made, steal for the price I paid. I was very impressed by the fitment of cam and timing gear, also the timing chain seemed perfect and the slight tension looked really good. I used nylon cam button, to set the right length of it I used my daughters playdoh.
Lunati lifters I got also looked impressive, fit perfect and very nice and centered on the lobes.
The only problem that delayed the whole process was pushrods length.

rockers.jpg


I had only 14 pushrods of right length and had to find a way to go over this problem by extending length of two. Its just temporary solution, but I am posting photos so someone can use this method if needed.

1.jpg


2.jpg


3.jpg


Please comment on what do you think about it :)
Had to destroy 4 shorter ones to make 2 correct length.

I used 1.6:1 Crane roller rockers hence .640 cam lift and I guess 247/255 duration @.050".

I set the valve lash to 0.023" cold. Need comments here as I am not sure weather lashes given by manufacturers are cold or warm values.

First start:

The motor started right up! I was lucky enough to set timing at 12 degrees on assembly so it started instantly. I let it warm up, set the timing to 18 degrees. I took the valve covers off to check if oiling of the valve train is good. Luckily no issues here, also my extended pushrods did the job ;-)
What surprised me the most is how quiet the valvetrain is, comparing to hydraulic flat tappet with the very same rockers is much better. I expected it to be worse.

Did not drive the car much, just moved forward and reverse a bit. Sounds serious!
Will test drive this weekend and give feedback. Also am waiting for 2 missing pushrods from Summit.


For now I kept my Edelbrock TM6 with Holley DP carb. Will probably swap to tunnel ram and double quad in winter.
 
Last edited:
Hey! Nice work on the pushrods. Everything seems to be coming together well.
Did you decide to get and run that tunnel ram?
 
Miszny said:
Hello again!

I wanted to report that cam swap is done. I started last week and it took me 4 days after work including heads machining.
Where disassembly was 1 day with heads off the motor.

Heads work:

I bought Comp Cams tool to machine my heads for double springs. When I got it I had serious doubts about this thing lasting the whole process, but my doubts were not justified. It did the job very well. It took me under two hours with two heads, I took my time with cooling it down etc.
I can highly recommend this, level of satisfaction after finishing this task is high ;-)

First conclusion is that as it is easy to remove single springs with hand spring tool, putting double springs on was not that much fun and in the end I asked my machine shop to put the springs on while machining the heads. When they saw I machined the guides and they saw my tool, they did the assembly for free ;-)
Putting the heads on and torquing them down went smooth and no issues. The biggest pain in A-Body with big block is headers(I have TTI headers). They are in a way and it takes lots of fiddling to torque the heads down. I used ARP bolts and can highly recommend them.

Camshaft install:

I am really impressed by the quality and finish of Howards cam you guys recommended! Also the Summit timing set with Torrington bearing was VERY well made, steal for the price I paid. I was very impressed by the fitment of cam and timing gear, also the timing chain seemed perfect and the slight tension looked really good. I used nylon cam button, to set the right length of it I used my daughters playdoh.
Lunati lifters I got also looked impressive, fit perfect and very nice and centered on the lobes.
The only problem that delayed the whole process was pushrods length.

View attachment 1715054463

I had only 14 pushrods of right length and had to find a way to go over this problem by extending length of two. Its just temporary solution, but I am posting photos so someone can use this method if needed.

View attachment 1715054464

View attachment 1715054465

View attachment 1715054466

Please comment on what do you think about it :)
Had to destroy 4 shorter ones to make 2 correct length.

I used 1.6:1 Crane roller rockers hence .640 cam lift and I guess 247/255 duration @.050".

I set the valve lash to 0.023" cold. Need comments here as I am not sure weather lashes given by manufacturers are cold or warm values.

First start:

The motor started right up! I was lucky enough to set timing at 12 degrees on assembly so it started instantly. I let it warm up, set the timing to 18 degrees. I took the valve covers off to check if oiling of the valve train is good. Luckily no issues here, also my extended pushrods did the job ;-)
What surprised me the most is how quiet the valvetrain is, comparing to hydraulic flat tappet with the very same rockers it much better. I expected it to be worse.

Did not drive the car much, just moved forward and reverse a bit. Sounds serious!
Will test drive this weekend and give feedback. Also am waiting for 2 missing pushrods from Summit.


For now I kept my Edelbrock TM6 with Holley DP carb. Will probably swap to tunner ram and double quad in winter.
Click to expand...
Good job on making it work and doing it yourself.
 
Miszny said:
Hello again!

I wanted to report that cam swap is done. I started last week and it took me 4 days after work including heads machining.
Where disassembly was 1 day with heads off the motor.

Heads work:

I bought Comp Cams tool to machine my heads for double springs. When I got it I had serious doubts about this thing lasting the whole process, but my doubts were not justified. It did the job very well. It took me under two hours with two heads, I took my time with cooling it down etc.
I can highly recommend this, level of satisfaction after finishing this task is high ;-)

First conclusion is that as it is easy to remove single springs with hand spring tool, putting double springs on was not that much fun and in the end I asked my machine shop to put the springs on while machining the heads. When they saw I machined the guides and they saw my tool, they did the assembly for free ;-)
Putting the heads on and torquing them down went smooth and no issues. The biggest pain in A-Body with big block is headers(I have TTI headers). They are in a way and it takes lots of fiddling to torque the heads down. I used ARP bolts and can highly recommend them.

Camshaft install:

I am really impressed by the quality and finish of Howards cam you guys recommended! Also the Summit timing set with Torrington bearing was VERY well made, steal for the price I paid. I was very impressed by the fitment of cam and timing gear, also the timing chain seemed perfect and the slight tension looked really good. I used nylon cam button, to set the right length of it I used my daughters playdoh.
Lunati lifters I got also looked impressive, fit perfect and very nice and centered on the lobes.
The only problem that delayed the whole process was pushrods length.

View attachment 1715054463

I had only 14 pushrods of right length and had to find a way to go over this problem by extending length of two. Its just temporary solution, but I am posting photos so someone can use this method if needed.

View attachment 1715054464

View attachment 1715054465

View attachment 1715054466

Please comment on what do you think about it :)
Had to destroy 4 shorter ones to make 2 correct length.

I used 1.6:1 Crane roller rockers hence .640 cam lift and I guess 247/255 duration @.050".

I set the valve lash to 0.023" cold. Need comments here as I am not sure weather lashes given by manufacturers are cold or warm values.

First start:

The motor started right up! I was lucky enough to set timing at 12 degrees on assembly so it started instantly. I let it warm up, set the timing to 18 degrees. I took the valve covers off to check if oiling of the valve train is good. Luckily no issues here, also my extended pushrods did the job ;-)
What surprised me the most is how quiet the valvetrain is, comparing to hydraulic flat tappet with the very same rockers it much better. I expected it to be worse.

Did not drive the car much, just moved forward and reverse a bit. Sounds serious!
Will test drive this weekend and give feedback. Also am waiting for 2 missing pushrods from Summit.


For now I kept my Edelbrock TM6 with Holley DP carb. Will probably swap to tunner ram and double quad in winter.
Click to expand...



What does the cam card say for lash?

I didn't read all of the thread so IDK what you have for heads. If they are aluminum set the lash .004-.006 TIGHT and then when warmed up check the hot lash. If it is loose, set the cold lash tighter by that amount. If it's tight by a .002-.003 I'd probably leave it. Thigh term than that set the cold lash a bit looser.


Nice work.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Hey! Nice work on the pushrods. Everything seems to be coming together well.
Did you decide to get and run that tunnel ram?
Click to expand...

Thank you sir! I already have tunnel ram, but need carbs for it. I was thinking to get two 600cfm double pumpers... No money for this now so no problem ;-)

I was worried that I went too far with this pushrod extension thing...
 
yellow rose said:
What does the cam card say for lash?

I didn't read all of the thread so IDK what you have for heads. If they are aluminum set the lash .004-.006 TIGHT and then when warmed up check the hot lash. If it is loose, set the cold lash tighter by that amount. If it's tight by a .002-.003 I'd probably leave it. Thigh term than that set the cold lash a bit looser.


Nice work.
Click to expand...

Cam card says 0.022" but no info if hot or cold. Also I am using cast iron 452 ported heads.
This makes me think weather cam manufacturers include thickness change of aluminum heads or not?
I would guess not many people run solid rollers and still use cast iron heads...
I had no 0.022" tool but had one 0.023" size and used that instead. Will check hot lash on weekend.
What values should I get on hot motor? Perhaps I should measure like this only to make sure that all is where it should be at full operating temp?
 
I should also mention one more thing, the cam gear!
Everybody that told me to get assembled pump drive with gear was right. I am a very stubborn guy so I said no to that and had HUGE pain in the *** to remove the drawer pin in the first place. Second problem was the assembly and new drawer pin insert. This took as much time as machining valve guides on both heads or more. Not worth it. I am glad I learned this lesson, but trust me people, its NOT worth it.
This is the finished product:

gear.jpg
 
Parts used in this build:
- Howards Cams 722113-08 Camshaft
- Howards Cams 98650 Valve Springs
- Howards Cams 93321 Stem Seals
- Summit SUM-G6606-B Timing Set
- COMP Cams 424 Bronze Distributor Gear
- COMP Cams 206 Cam Button
- Lunati 72421-16 Vertical Bar Roller Lifters
- Gaskets (heads, water pump, timing cover)

Thanks for all the advice!

IMG_0196.JPG
 
Last edited:
Miszny said:
Thank you sir! I already have tunnel ram, but need carbs for it. I was thinking to get two 600cfm double pumpers... No money for this now so no problem ;-)

I was worried that I went too far with this pushrod extension thing...
Click to expand...
Yes the pushrod job looks very pretty, BUT, I'm sorry, I'm going to be the nay sayer here. Do not run the engine any more with the spliced pushrods. You are courting disaster there. There is a reason that pushrods have the cup end installed in as far as they do and not pushed in just 8mm or so.
 
Good point. He does have the 2 new ones on the way and that lifter angle is much friendlier compared to the small block. If no longer stock was available...could have spot welded at least if you're that desperate to get it going.
 
IQ52 said:
Yes the pushrod job looks very pretty, BUT, I'm sorry, I'm going to be the nay sayer here. Do not run the engine any more with the spliced pushrods. You are courting disaster there. There is a reason that pushrods have the cup end installed in as far as they do and not pushed in just 8mm or so.
Click to expand...
He did say he was waiting in new ones and these are just for engine break in.
 
rumblefish360 said:
He did say he was waiting in new ones and these are just for engine break in.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understood that. I wouldn't fire it again until the correct pushrods were in the engine. I wouldn't splice a drive shaft and I wouldn't splice a pushrod and run it in an engine, no matter how pretty they looked. One of those splices comes off and wedges itself between a roller and cam lobe and you have a real break in. I've tried to not hurt peoples feelings and had them blow up their engines. I'm tired of that. A bad idea is a bad idea.
 
Last edited:
IQ52 said:
Yes, I understood that. I wouldn't fire it again until the correct pushrods were in the engine. I wouldn't splice a drive shaft and I wouldn't splice a pushrod and run it in an engine, no matter how pretty they looked. One of those splices comes off and wedges itself between a roller and cam lobe and you have a real break in. I've tried to not hurt peoples feelings and had them blow up their engines. I'm tired of that. A bad idea is a bad idea.
Click to expand...

No worries, I don't plan on running it, its too risky. Just wanted to see it running after all that work done. I ordered 2 missing pushrods from Jegs, Summit wanted me to wait 2 weeks...

If any of you guys have 2 spare 440 pushrods like mine and don't mind shipping them to me, please PM me.

image1(1).JPG
 
Last edited:
LMAO! Nice weld! That'll hold up for a bit. I need to break out my welder and start practicing again. It's been a long while.
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Good point. He does have the 2 new ones on the way and that lifter angle is much friendlier compared to the small block. If no longer stock was available...could have spot welded at least if you're that desperate to get it going.
Click to expand...

You see, because of where I am located, standard waiting time for parts is 7-21 days... I wanted to run it and avoid waiting that much time if possible. I tig welded them just in case.
 
Yep, and I know of a guy who ground the base circle down on his camshaft with a bench grinder and a belt sander so he could get more lift. It ran for a while.
 
Miszny said:
You see, because of where I am located, standard waiting time for parts is 7-21 days... I wanted to run it and avoid waiting that much time if possible. I tig welded them just in case.
Click to expand...
I get it. You are not into deferred gratification. Do you eat the jelly in the doughnut first? Best of luck.
 
OMG! The blender is coming to this thread..... LMAO!!!!
 
IQ52 said:
Yep, and I know of a guy who ground the base circle down on his camshaft with a bench grinder and a belt sander so he could get more lift. It ran for a while.
Click to expand...

LOL

I bet you have 2 pushrods that can save my ***! :)
 
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