Having a hard time fitting a 360 into my 67 Barracuda

[cudajim]

My 67 ragtop Barracuda was due for an upgrade from the tired 273 so I started looking around for a new engine. I was told a 360 was somewhat compatible but I'm finding it to be a real pain in the azz to get things right. So far I have the correct weights on the torque converter, modified engine mounts and the engine is installed.

I have alternator and power steering brackets from a 360 engine but I'm having problems with pulleys not lining up no matter what I try. I assume getting the right pulleys would get me where I want to be but I don't know what to pull them off of so I'm open to suggestions.

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Pulleys are an absolute pain in the ***. I always try to pull a full set off a donor vehicle to avoid this situation. Do you have a self pull salvage yard that you can go to to find a full set of pulleys.

Water pump shaft length also causes a lot of problems with pulley alignment.

 

[63dartman]

This is where I got mine for my 63 dart. Had the same problem until I got the ones needed.

http://www.bpeusa.com/BPEpulleys.asp

 

[burdar]

Why don't you use the pulleys from the 273? They should bolt up fine. You'd have to use the short snout water pump on the 360.

 

[mikedevore]

You will run into issues using the cast iron water pump.
The mark on the timing cover will be blocked.
On the pulleys, 5 bolts out of the 6 will line up. You can either run it with 5 or slot the odd hole to install the 6th one.
The more common pieces to use are the 1970 & up. You will have an issue with the lower rad hose outlet on the radiator.

 

[burdar]

So he can't put the 273 timing cover and water pump on the 360? That would seem like the easiest thing to do. Then you wouldn't have to mess around with pulleys. The 360 should just drop in other then spacing the DS mount and running a weighted convertor or flexplate.

 

[mikedevore]

So he can't put the 273 timing cover and water pump on the 360? That would seem like the easiest thing to do. Then you wouldn't have to mess around with pulleys. The 360 should just drop in other then spacing the DS mount and running a weighted convertor or flexplate.

He could do that, but would have to mark the balancer to read off the 273 timing cover mark.
Probably will still have one hole off on the bolt pattern for the pulley.

 

[Cudaroy]

Pulleys are an absolute pain in the ***. I always try to pull a full set off a donor vehicle to avoid this situation. Do you have a self pull salvage yard that you can go to to find a full set of pulleys.

Water pump shaft length also causes a lot of problems with pulley alignment.

What he said....I have 3 sets of pulleys from a 68,69,90 and they are all different. Pain in the *** is absolutely correct!

 

[burdar]

Ok, didn't think about the timing mark on the balancer.

 

[sireland67]

Here is what I have found, if the timing cover marks are on the drivers side use the later model everything, brackets, accessories, it will bolt right up...except the radiator.

Early passenger side timing marks, works if everything is kept the same year.

You can change the 360 to early style, just remark TDC on the balancer.

 

[krazykuda]

What you have to do is decide which way you want to get it together. As a late 60's or as a 70's style.

If it were me, I would go with the late 60's style. Use the timing chain cover, water pump, pulleys, and radiator from the original engine and then just remark TDC on the vibration damper. Don't forget that you will need the left side late 60's 340 engine mount for the 360 as the one for the 273/318 is different.

Mancini Racing also carries repro pulleys, you may want to check with them for any that you may need.


It can be done. I've done it. I've swapped a 340 for a 273 before. Use the 67 timing cover, water pump, radiator, p/s brackets and alternator brackets.

 

[67Dart273]

I'm not sure-----is the 360 balancer the same thickness front to rear as the early timing cover set up? If not, the BALANCER ALONE would misalign the pulley stack.

 

[burdar]

The mounting face, where the pulley bolts to, is in the same location as a 318/340. The weighted part of the 360 balancer is around the outside and doesn't affect the pulley. I just bought billet pulleys for my 360 build. They are listed as 318, 340 and 360. They line up perfectly with my stock damper.

If the 273 damper is the same thickness as a later 318, you should be fine.

 

[318willrun]

I replaced my 273 also. I used the pulleys, alternator bracket and water pump from the 273 and it all worked great. Also, anyone else doing a project like this, forget the weights on the converter. Just use a balanced flexplate. B&M sell them, or just have the one you have balanced (my machine shop did this for 45 bucks). It's too hard to find a 360 converter (with weights) for a 904. The 273, 318, 340 and 360 are a direct bolt-in.

 

[67Dart273]

By the way, the timing mark is a non issue. If you decide to use the old style timing cover and pump, it won't take long with a piston stop to build a new timing mark

 

[cudajim]

Ok, all good comments. Using the old 273 stuff was the original plan until I found out the crank holes don't line up. Also, the water pump bypass is bigger on the 360. Timing mark is not a big issue.

I've already tackled the motor mounts as well as the torque converter balancing. This weekend I'll try different pulleys to see what I can make work.

So is there a short and long version of the water pump snout on a 360? If so I think I have the long one which may be part of the problem.

 

[sireland67]

On the crank pulley, I think all you need to do is oblong one hole out.

 

[burdar]

The 360 will have the long snout water pump. To use the 273 pulleys, you will have to use the timing cover and water pump from the 273. Post a picture of the crank pulley held up to the 360 balancer. Are all the bolt holes off or just one?

As far as the bypass hose is concerned, there is a replaceable fitting on the intake manifold. If the hose is really bigger on the 360 intake, then the fitting can be changed to the size you need.

 

[sireland67]

Mancini's sells the fittings you will need.

 

[67Dart273]

It's not just the 360 that uses a long pump. "When Ma switched" 69--70, all SB V8s went from the driver side water outlet to passenger side. This is the reason the timing marks are different

 

[drewmac]

Can someone post pictures of their 273 to 360 swap? I am contemplating doing the same thing but want to keep the look of my '67 273 so I can sucker the Ford and Chevy guys in town (fooling a few Mopar guys would not hurt either!) I am particularly interested in using all the front end parts (timing cover, water pump, radiator etc). Does anyone make a balancer with the correct timing marks for the early car but in a weight appropriate for a 360 or is re-marking the balancer the only option? I don't mean to hijack the thread.

 

[krazykuda]

Does anyone make a balancer with the correct timing marks for the early car but in a weight appropriate for a 360 or is re-marking the balancer the only option? I don't mean to hijack the thread.

Why bother getting a new balancer if you don't need one? It's easy to find TDC and remark the balancer to the "new" marks on the timing chain cover. I like to mark them with white touch up paint or white out.

 

[67Dart273]

Yup. Take you less than 1/2 hour and then you know the mark is accurate

Here

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1969969924&postcount=2

 

[krazykuda]

Can someone post pictures of their 273 to 360 swap? I am contemplating doing the same thing but want to keep the look of my '67 273 so I can sucker the Ford and Chevy guys in town (fooling a few Mopar guys would not hurt either!) I am particularly interested in using all the front end parts (timing cover, water pump, radiator etc). Does anyone make a balancer with the correct timing marks for the early car but in a weight appropriate for a 360 or is re-marking the balancer the only option? I don't mean to hijack the thread.

If you change from a 273/318 to a 340/360 in the 67 a-body the left engine mount is different. You can get the correct one from Mancini racing. Just tell them that you want a stock set of motor mounts for a 68 Barracuda formula S.

The original transmission shift and kickdown linkages will cross over from the 904 to the 727, but the 727 will be slightly longer on the tail end and require the driveshaft to be shortened. A good time to put in an 8 3/4 axle and then have it shortened to the proper length alll in one shot. The driveshaft will need shortening if you change from the 7 1/4 axle to the 8 3/4. You should change over to the 8 3/4 axle as the 7 1/4 will surely break with a 360 in front of it. Maybe not right away, but it will believe me. I broke three 7 1/4 axles in four years with a mild 318 with a 340 cam 4 bbl and dual exhaust.

 

[drewmac]

Thanks 67dart273 and KrazyKuda I will just remark the 360 balancer the competition should not be close enough to see them anyway!!! This will go in front of the existing A883 and 8 3/4 so i am good there.