Henry's 70 Dart Swinger

-
Pretty much any COMP cam I've ever used prefers more timing than stock...hell, even stock engines like more timing than stock spec. 10* is a good place to start for a mostly stock engine, and I'm sure you have a vacuum gage to aide in tuning your new carb-good choice for what you're doing. I'd advise you to get the calibration kit for that carb to fully dial in what you want...unless by some luck, yours runs perfect out of the box. I used one for my old AFB Edelbrock and it helps the part throttle circuit-especially when it comes to mileage, if that concerns you at all. There are many folks who'll poopoo Edelbrock, but IMO, they're tough to beat for street behavior.

When I installed my 5.2, I bought a Summit 600 VS carb...essentially a Holley 4010. I'm sure that carb would've been fine had I the patience to tune it correctly and all the pieces parts to do so, but it ran so inconsistently I just didn't feel like messing with it. So, I bolted on an old Edelbrock 600, wired the choke open and it was so much easier to drive. I really wish I could drive it right now...

EDIT:

I just saw you mentioned 20-25* initial-that's a bit high, even if the engine does like the high initial, it'll be too much total timing unless you've limited it in the dizzy...I think the stock Mopar dizzy adds about 20* timing, that would put you up to 40...a bit much I believe.

Also, are you setting your timing with or without vacuum? It needs to be without vacuum advance at idle, and if connected, should be on the timed vacuum port-should be vehicle right side of the carb...left side as you're looking at it.
 
Most of the time, if you're idle is dropping that much just by putting it in gear, it's because the vacuum advance is adding timing at idle, then when you pull it in gear, the vacuum signal is reduced, you lose timing, idle drops...double hit.

If the engine is tuned decently with a small cam, you should be able to idle it down easily to 700-800 rpm and only observe a minimal drop in going into gear-maybe 100 rpm.
 
yar! right now it is at 20 degrees in idle, in neutral. i had the vacuum advance on the timed port...but it said in the manual it was for emissions controled vehicles...so i moved it to the non timed port, which said for non emmissions control.

i guess i need to move it back to the other timed plug then.

when we rev the motor up to about 2500 or so i'm getting about 45 degrees....then if you flog it...it goes to 60 degrees.

right now i have the idle in neutral set to 1500 because if i drop it in drive any less then that the car runs like poop and trys to die. up and down up and down...shaky shaky...normal...repeat. but at 1500 idle neutral....the drive idle is at about 900 rpm. so sayith the old *** gauge in the dash.

i do have a vacuum gauge, thanks for reminding me of that!

i believe the reason my idle in neutral has to be so high is becaus of the 20 degree timing....i think i should go to 15 and then adjust carb again to see what i'm getting.

i figured since 7 1/2 was the max on stock according to the book...that 15 with the comp cam is pushing it. 20 to me sounded way too much, but i didn't want to argue. i could be wrong too, idk till i try.

the carb actually runs pretty damn good out of the box. i think the primary jets may be a bit too rich...but i'm not sure what stock was.....the eddy has .095 primarys. the old primarys on the old carb had a number 402 or something on them. sounds like a part number, not the spec.

the dizzy is a brand new one, rebuilt unit from oreilly. looked great to me. popped the pertronix in and went fine. i may need to review the pertronix instructions one more time incase i missed something to do with the timing with the ignitor II unit.

when i go back to the old youtube video my dad made...the car is idling at 1000 rpm in park....so something is def not right. and you are right...when it had the old stuff on it...at 1000 in park...it only dropped a 100 or so rpm in drive. never tried to die out.
 
i also need to figure out the kick down linkage. it wont go into 1st when you are in 3rd going about 25-30mph. it goes to second. i have the adjustment bar all the way out...which should push the kick down all the way back to first. so i'm not sure what is going on there.

i may end up with a cable kickdown unit. this kickdown is off another car and is not a stock dart unit.
 
will be dropping the car off this saturday for new exhaust with flowmaster super 44 mufflers and an H pipe.

U sure you want flowmasters? Most don't like the drone. Way to loud for my taste.
 
yes, i like the drone and the loud. its a hot rod for weekend fun. if it was a daily driver...i would agree with you. the best part of the turbo flows on it now is when the get down near idle and get all loud. when i'm driving and its quiet...i dont like it.
 
well I tried everything. from 0 degrees going up in increments of 5 degrees all the way up to 60. adjusting the carb in between timing adjustments. it absolutely will NOT run in drive. the best I can get it is at 20 or so degrees and 1500 idle and then MAYBE it will idle at 900. but normally it will dog out up and down between 500 and 300 rpm on the gauge. it shakes and rattle and bocks. I have good vac coming out of the timed port...plenty to move the advance.

i'm pretty sure this carb is a big pile of ****! we are going to rebuild the old carb tomorrow and see if it makes any difference...if so, this new one can go back...maybe it is too much cfm??? its the 650....maybe I need the 500???

I don't know...i'm at wits end.
 
according to a cfm calculator online....i'm way over on cfm.....should be 500cfm....not 650. still waiting on eddy to wake up so i can talk to someone.

does anyone know the CFM of the stock carter AVS for 1970 340?
 
could be i used the thick style carb base gasket from the rebuild kit from daytona for the original carb. the edelbrock carb came with this super thin chinsy looking gasket...so i used the nice thick one i had. maybe the thick one is blocking some port or something. hell idk.
 
edelbrock says it it sounds like it is flooding. either trash on a seat or the float levels are out of wack letting the fuel level get to high. or psi of pump is too high...but its a stock looking carter fuel pump. 120gph....6.5psi

does talking to myself mean i'm going crazy? :blob:
 
whoa man-sorry I didn't see this earlier!

Are you running your old AVS, or the new Edelbrock? As far as the sizing, a 650 is about perfect for a stock 340-the cfm calculators are a little bit flawed in my opinion. It's more about the tuning than the size. Even a 750 double pumper can be tuned to run well on a stock mildly cammed 340.

If you're flooding at low rpms and it's bogging out, you might consider trying a weaker step up spring under the rods-if you're not pulling enough idle vacuum, the boosters will dump gas into the barrels and make it run super rich.

If you can get your idle down to <1000 rpm, how much vacuum does it pull?
 
me and my dad rebuilt the old AVS tonight. we know for a fact we did it right. all new kit from Daytona carburetor. cleaned the crap outa it...blew it all out. used all the new parts. everything was great. it ran on the old stock 70 date coded AVS. idles great....throw it in gear and all goes to **** again.....

sooooo.....its not the carb. 2 different carbs....one brand new....one rebuilt. both do it.

our next stop is these steps.

1. re-stab the dizzy. maybe we fucked that up somehow (more like me)
2. chunk this pertronix Ignitor II unit and put the old coil, points, resistor back on.

that is the only thing left that is different from what it used to have. used to have points.

the only other thing that is different from before we started working is the wiring harness bypassing the ammeter using the MAD electrical method, but I don't see how this could possibly be affecting this.
 
**** happens man-don't be too hard on yourself. There's no reason I can think of that the MAD electrical mod would create that issue...

So, with the dizzy, when you did the pertronix conversion, did you ensure the gap was correct between the pickup and the trigger?
 
Yes. Checked it again tonight... Set it again. Same thing with idle. Fine in nuetral.... Crap In drive.

I read some people had defective ignitor II units that would cut out cylinders in drive. I need to check my voltage to the coil is a good 12v too. And coil resistance.

I'm willing to bet I got a jacked up Pertonix unit. Good to know my eddy carb is okay... Can still use it when my dad and I figure out this other issue
 
In park/nuetral it will run like a top... For as long as I want it to. Put in drive or reverse....**** hits fan. Acts like it is stalling/flooding or randomly missing on cylinders.
 
I had a similar issue with an old straight 6 in a Bronco-I had to send it back and get a new one, and it was very picky with the pickup gap...I think it actually had to be closer than recommended.
 
bit of a drama isn't it....


i read that the pertronix can sometimes want a ground wire in the dizzy, but i dont see that the dizzy ever was supposed to have one from factory.

but then again, maybe there is supposed to be an engine to firewall ground like most cars.....this car doesn't have one.

so i plan on making one and seeing if the pertronix works right. if not....going to points like before.

if that doesn't fix it....i'm out of ideas.
 
DO NOT USE A PERTRONIX IGNITOR II !!!

put in the points...old coil....and ballast. runs perfect! BOOM SHACKA LACKA!!

I will run points in this car till the day the car rots in the ground.

now on to another problem. the power steering pump does not line up with the new harmonic balancer pulley I got from BPE. so I tried to space it forward with bolt spacers....well that kinda worked...its a bit cockeyed, but no belt noise and it looks like crap!

so...couple questions...was there a NON A/C power steering pump....or maybe a NON A/C pulley for the power steering pump I have. Or maybe different mounting brackets??

only other observation I have....the pulley on the pump looks like it is pressed on backwards. if I flipped the pulley it would offset to the front of the car....lining it back up with out using the spacers on the bolts.
 

Attachments

  • photo 1.JPG
    109.5 KB · Views: 266
  • photo 2.JPG
    113.6 KB · Views: 232
  • photo 3.JPG
    109 KB · Views: 241
  • photo 4.JPG
    100.5 KB · Views: 254
looks like i'm missing a bracket. looking up federal pump brackets on ebay...i'm missing one of the triangle brackets. the pulley appears, from the ebay picture to be on correctly.
 

Attachments

  • $_12.jpg
    19.1 KB · Views: 250
  • $_3.jpg
    70.7 KB · Views: 259
weird. yes it does looks like you're missing that one triangle bracket. hard to tell if tat will put it in the proper location though..

i know i have a small block federal pump and brackets out in the shed. if you remind me around noon time i'll get a couple pics and see what the pulley ad all looks like.

whats your pump from? was it on a 6 cyl or anything before?
 
no clue. it was on the car in 1989 when my dad bought it. it sure looks the same as the one from the ebay pic I stole, which is def a V8. he never touched it cause it always just worked. but...remember...somebody put factory A/C on this car....a bit hacked like. I put it back to no A/C using the BPE pulleys for alternator, crank, and waterpump.

when I mount the pump without those spacers...it is about 1/2" too far back. so my thought was the missing piece plus some wacked out bent brackets is what is throwing it off so much.

but like you...that one piece doesn't seem like it would put it back in alignment. I wish I had a good pic of what it was like before I put those spacers on. you can see the bottom bolt is bending too, its not straight. its all outa wack.

I see the brackets on ebay...but damn 75 bucks??? holy crap!

i'm central time...sooooo that would be 11 my time. i'll pm you around there. thanks for the help!! you rock!
 
The pump on mine was pirated from a big block car at one time I think, but my Dad used the SB brackets so it was always a little off. I'm pretty sure if you swap to a small block pulley, you'll be golden...if memory serves all the small blocks, ac or non-ac used the same bracket for power steering-it was the alternator and water pump mounting depth that differed.

I'll see if I can dig up some photos
 
So your saying this is a big block pulley on the front of the pump? There are different pulley styles between small and big block?
 
-
Back
Top