KB piston question

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martin7170

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I'm changing pistons in 360. This engine has KB191 's installed already which are 12:1. Since I'm not planning on racing this engine now and driving it on the street, and it requires at least 98 octane to run properly, I'm changing to KB107 which is a flat top or KB373 which is a flat top with a quench dome. Has anyone ever ran the the KB373 's before? Thanks
 
I've given that some thought but I'm at.039 compressed, the change to thicker is not really going to drop it to the pump gas friendly range. It knocks on pump gas unless I really retard timing then I kill performance. Thicker head gasket and smaller cam would improve drivability where a piston swap solve it for real. I just don't have a good understanding of quench and that is the difference in the 2 pistons. the flat top would allow me to use any head if I wish to make a change in the future. But right now with these heads, would I benefit more by the quench dome on the piston. This engine has less than 50 miles and my focus is street driving rather than weekend warrior. Lowering comp would solve minor running hot issues as well.
 
Are your KB191s set for 0 deck, or set to the KB .011" down in the bore? The dome is .150 tall, but I'm referring to the actual top of the piston at teh edge... If you are set at 0 deck, and run the 373s, that raised pad will come up about .085". If you run std Felpros at .043", that's getting very close to your chamber roof where that step comes up. especially if the heads were milled at all. IMO, the flat tops are the way to go if you're at 0 deck now. However they may give you a nasty drop in power when runnign the same cam. You may want to address that. If they are .011" or so down in the hole (or lower) the quench domes are a good option. However, depending on your cam, you may still be too high for pump fuel and an open chamber. And when running the quench domes, you will have to check every cylinder for piston to head clearance. Do not assume they all stop at the same distance away from the head. You want .040" or so and if you need to polish the chambers to get a flat surface, do it. I am curently building a 440 with the step head pistons. It's a royal PITA to get things where they need to be to work right. I plan to polish the chambers, then mill the head to get my perfect quench distance. I also am running a cam that will bleed off pressure low down. So the final deal will be an 87 octane gas 10.8:1 iron headed engine. KB-silvolite has a good dynamic pressure calculator. plug in your cam and see what the various pistons do for you. You want dynamic compression ratio to be below 8.5:1 for a hevy street geared car, no higher than 8.75:1 for pump fuel and better gearing or light weight.
 
Thanks for the info, I'll play with the calculator to see what I get.
 
Actually thickening the head gasket will solve the problem. However the .020 needed will have to be done by head shim and not by gasket alone. Thanks for the info. I''ll let you know if it works.
 
martin7170 said:
Actually thickening the head gasket will solve the problem. However the .020 needed will have to be done by head shim and not by gasket alone. Thanks for the info. I''ll let you know if it works.
Cometic make gaskets in whatever thickness you want - up to .125thick.
.060 are a standard thickness for them and sounds like it is in the range you need.
Make sure you use the + and - in the KB calculator in the correct order - otherwise you end up with 13 instead of 11 as a CR. I believe one fellow on this board may have made that mistake.
I prefer the one at www.diamondracing.net/calculations. Its more accurate too.
As you have open chamber heads, the chance of getting quench and lower compression I doubt is feasible.
 
No actually this started with me wanting to make this engine more pump gas friendly rather than a race engine since I currently don't have time to race. I was going to change pistons and rebalance the bottom end to lower compression. I wanted to know which piston would better suit my needs, flat top or flat with quench. Since I've learned I can achieve my goal with only a head gasket change that makes it reversible to me if I develop more time later. But thanks for the tip about cometic gaskets. I'll search them out on the net.
 
martin7170 said:
No actually this started with me wanting to make this engine more pump gas friendly rather than a race engine since I currently don't have time to race. I was going to change pistons and rebalance the bottom end to lower compression. I wanted to know which piston would better suit my needs, flat top or flat with quench. Since I've learned I can achieve my goal with only a head gasket change that makes it reversible to me if I develop more time later. But thanks for the tip about cometic gaskets. I'll search them out on the net.


one of the board sponsors is a cometic distributor: www.4secondsflat.com. I believe he also has the best pricing - and a lot of sizes in stock.
give Don a call.
 
Basically what moper is saying is that it is more of a cylinder pressure thing more than an actual compression ratio thing. If you retard a cam it is possible to lower cylinder pressure because it changes how much air enters when the piston is trying to fill the cylinder. Less cylinder filling = less cylinder pressure. Camshafts have a lot to do with cylinder pressure.

If you can cure the problem with a head gasket change I would probably do the same.

Chuck
 
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