need ideas on a rich running 360

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I'm getting spent! I went out this morning and reset the dist and checked all the plug wires. It always starts right up. Cleaned all the plugs for the 78th time. When it started i set the initial at 20 degrees and It sounded good for second and know its popping thru the exhaust. I pulled all the valve covers and all is well there. I changed carbs and cleaned the plugs(again) and no difference. I'm pretty much looking at electrical gremlins at this point.
 
Is fuel dripping off the carb boosters? Get it started and take a look with a mirror or peak over the top of the carb to see. If it's dripping, lower the float level.

You may need to buy a fresh set of plugs. Cleaning a fouled set sometimes doesn't work. Pull a couple of plugs, are they fouled again? If you an get a picture of the plugs that may help.
 
plugs are covered with soot in minutes. I'm on my 3rd set and the car has never been street driven.These plugs are 3 days old, but I've cleaned them 4 times.
 
If the engine is popping out the exh. the timing is late. Advance the timing and see if it cleans up, if it doesn't then remove the distributor and take a good look at the pickup to the reluctor. To make sure that the rotor is pointing at the terminal when the reluctor and the pickup are inline, if they aren't inline then remove the reluctor and reinstall the reluctor in the correct position. This is a very common mistake that rebuilders do, along with using bent shafts.
 
this is going to sound strange but i had a friend that had a race motor and ran great until he changed a air filter to a K&N then suddenly the motor started running rough and fouling the plus in about 1 or 2 minutes we cleaned the carb several times and changed the plugs several times and it would run a little better but still not right, so one day we started the motor and i choked the motor a little with my hand and revved the motor pretty hard and while covering the carb with my hand it suddenly cleared up and sounded real strong So we jetted bigger and it ran great and the wierd part is the plugs were tan to brown and not fouling anymore, i think the gasolines we use now days are different and the old way of troubleshooting plugs might be different, If i were you jet your carb bigger and richen it up and see what it does you never know till you try it.
 
Hey thanks to everybody that chimed in. I'm backing off this thing for a day or two before i throw a match on it! Things even got worse today it's popping so bad I'm not sure exactly where it's coming from. Something else went wrong today for sure. The thing wont even time at all . I could only get it to run with an initial around 35!!!!!!! Wouldn't start with any less. Balancer? Chain? I do have a nice 1970 440 ready to go but that would mean I'm a quitter. Thanks again guys if i figure anything out I'll keep you posted.
 
One last thought.. Which timing cover and water pump do you have??? I did the same swap in my 64 Dart.. With the driver side water pump the timing mark is hidden, and the 360 timing cover mark is on the passenger side..
My 2 cts

Bob
 
BobsDart said:
One last thought.. Which timing cover and water pump do you have??? I did the same swap in my 64 Dart.. With the driver side water pump the timing mark is hidden, and the 360 timing cover mark is on the passenger side..
My 2 cts

Bob
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Great observation!

Pass side mark balancer with a drivers side timing cover. When you bring it to #1 compression, TDC, is the balancer mark where it should be at 0?
 
Check the balancer ring. Sounds like it may be sliding. That could be a BIG part of the problem. Verify TDC on compression stroke with a piston stop. Then mark the balancer hub and ring and run it. If you can move that outer ring at all with any tool it's junk. Also, if this was a fresh engine, you may want to give some serious thought to taking it apart and freshening the rings. I'm sure at this point they havent seated and may not ever. That's if this was a fresh engine.
 
Rebuilt 360 huh? Well its something simple that you could be overlooking. Have you over torqued your rocker arm assembly or not torqued enough which would cause your valves not to open the proper distance. You have tried everything imaginable. Poping out the carb sounds like an intake valve isnt working properly. Perhaps you could have a weak or collasped spring. I know just how frustrating this can be. I had a similar problem and after replacing wires, plugs, etc... I found that my pushrod had come thru my rocker arm... Good luck..
 
crackedback said:
Great observation!

Pass side mark balancer with a drivers side timing cover. When you bring it to #1 compression, TDC, is the balancer mark where it should be at 0?
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Both the 360's I have, the timing marks are on the drivers side. yes the balancer lines up to fire #1. But,what if the balancer had moved/slid before it was installed? I think thats the next thing to check. This engine was fresh early last year. It has at least (guess) 3 hours of run time at various rpm's. Althuogh it hasn't run right I would hope the rings would seat by now?
 
The rings cannot seat with a large volume of fuel and low cylinder pressures that come with misfires. Fuel can easily wash out the rings, expecially the ethanol crap we run now. After it's running, do a leakdown and check them at least. In any event, I think it's something stupid like the slipping ring. Too many parts replacements with no change.
 
moper said:
The rings cannot seat with a large volume of fuel and low cylinder pressures that come with misfires. Fuel can easily wash out the rings, expecially the ethanol crap we run now. After it's running, do a leakdown and check them at least. In any event, I think it's something stupid like the slipping ring. Too many parts replacements with no change.
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Good advice for sure. I've changed the oil 4-5 times (paranoid) and never fuel in the oil so I'm hoping for the best. I know it's got to be something stupid but I"m thinking I'm to stupid to find it..lol... The tank is new as are the lines and filter and I only put in 5 gallons at a time so it's always fresh.
 
Aluminum heads? This may sound crazy to you but I had a similiar problem with the fowling..I called msd and talked with their tech, this is what he said...he said ground the two heads together with 14 guage wire, then he said ground the minus side of the coil to one of the aluminum heads. He said this is a common problem...guess what? It helped mine immediately...drove it about 50 miles on a short trip and plulgs cleaned up....I could not believe it but it worked on mine...I also have a 750 holley.
 
It most likely need a smaller power valve. A 6.5 inch valve is pretty big for that cam. I had that cam in my 360 and I had to run a 4.5 power valve. It's possible yours is not closing good. But... I think the problem is more than that. Are you disconnecting the vacuum advance when checking the timing? If not you may not be getting a correct reading. Fouled plugs will pop like you say yours does so it may just be the plugs are fouled. Could also be a cracked dist. cap arcing over. BJR also hit a good note when he mentioned rebuilt distributors have problems alot. Don't know where you got it but I have yet to see one from Autozone run right and theirs come from Cardone remanufacturing which is a common place for allot of auto parts stores to get stuff and everything I've seen from Cardone is crap. Take the dist out and spin it and watch the reluctor gap while doing it and see if it's the same gap all the way around. If not that's a big problem. Either a bent shaft and/or bad bushings.
 
ya mines running rich also and I have 72 jets and 6.5pv so im going to a 4.5 to see if that helps. I even have carbon on the pistons and its a new motor
 
I've tried a eddy 600,eddy750, and a 600 holley= same problem. I've tried a different dist. w/new cap and rotor= same problem. And I wish I had aluminum heads to try that remedy.
 
dart44072 said:
I've tried a eddy 600,eddy750, and a 600 holley= same problem. I've tried a different dist. w/new cap and rotor= same problem. And I wish I had aluminum heads to try that remedy.
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If it's an ignition problem that explains why all those carbs ran the same. On the other hand if all the carbs had the stock power valves (or springs in the case of Eddy's) that could be the problem also cause I can tell you by experience that cam may not have enough vacuum to keep a 6.5 inch power valve closed at idle if everything isn't in tune. My 360 with the same cam you say yours has only pulled a little over 7" of vacuum when everything was in perfect tune.

I'll ask again since you didn't answer. Did you have the vacuum advance unhooked when you checked the timing??
 
dusterforever said:
Aluminum heads? This may sound crazy to you but I had a similiar problem with the fowling..I called msd and talked with their tech, this is what he said...he said ground the two heads together with 14 guage wire, then he said ground the minus side of the coil to one of the aluminum heads. He said this is a common problem...guess what? It helped mine immediately...drove it about 50 miles on a short trip and plulgs cleaned up....I could not believe it but it worked on mine...I also have a 750 holley.
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MSD said this? Which ignition were you running? I have an MSD Digital-6 and they were pretty firm in their literature about NOTHING else being connected to the coil. Not intending to hijack but I have been working on similar rich running issues with new 360 (large cam, eddies, etc...). Please reply PM dusterforever... thanks.
 
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