Planning a shop build, any suggestions?

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We're getting close to replacing our drive and once the substrate is completed, we will be saturating the rock with Vapor Lock 555 to stabilize that before the mud.

I see and understand the vapor lock 555 for the base. Are you spraying the 555 on top of the base or are you mixing it as the spec sheets call for?

What are the other products you are using in the actual concrete?

I know which batch plant is best in my county. Both batch plants will tell me not to use whatever product as they are not responsible for what happens. Typical batch plants. Again, costs money and will crack. That's the only guarantee from plants.

Every few years I have to get a new crete guy as people come and go. I have to be able to not only talk the batch plant into adding the products but I have to talk my crete guy into pouring a product that he will not want to warranty. Regardless of spec sheets, still difficult to talk a crete guy into warranty on an unknown product.

Can I tell my plant that the product cleans up inside of the cylinder? That is going to be their reservation. Will it stick to the barrel? Will it clean after a trip back to the plant?
 
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Can I tell my plant that the product cleans up inside of the cylinder? That is going to be their reservation. Will it stick to the barrel? Will it clean after a trip back to the plant?
When I worked construction we did a huge pour for a slab. The driver said we must take all as he was not driving back to the plant with product. We throw together 4 box forms and made Ecology blocks.


All along I-80 in Nebraska are cement mixer barrels with Averts painted on them. Must be 50 barrels. Thats a lot of screw ups of a trip too far from the batch plant and it sat up in the barrels on the trip back.
Paulsen-Concrete-Advertising-I-80-NE-2018-06-08.jpg
 
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Hello ladies and gents, I’m in the planning stages of a 40x60 shop and open to any suggestions/ideas y’all might have.
A few plans I have are 2 12x10 or 12x12 doors in the 60’ side of the shop and I plan to put heat in the floor. Aside from that, I’m all ears.
Don't face the doors to the prevailing winds as a guy I knew insisted on doing after I suggested to him this was a bad idea. Before he got the building finished and the doors in a storm came along and his new 40x60 shop went along with it in a million pieces. I had a saw mill and he needed a real long header beam so I cut one for him, it wound up in splinters too. All his new sheet metal went bye bye and all the glass found its way into the pasture behind him. Around 10k $ blew away leaving a nice new concrete slab that never got redone. He died a few years later leaving his widow and all his tools and race truck stuff out in the weather.
 
Finally took the time to sit down and come draw up some ideas.

First up we have a 40x60 with a 12x60 lean-to, 3 doors in the south 60’ wall. As can be seen in the picture, the top 12’ section is the lean-to. In that 12’ section, we have (from left to right) a 12x12 “lawn room” which would house the lawn mower as well as chain saws, weedeaters, gas cans, etc. it would have an 8’ garage door coming off the west (left) side of the room.

Next we have a 12x16 “fab room” that would be used for all types of metal work type tools, to keep the mess out of the main shop. Access would be a man door or maybe a 4’ door from the main shop (maybe a larger sliding door as well to be able to get equipment in and out easier).

The remaining 32’ of the lean-to would be used for stalls, hay storage and any other “barn” related storage. We only have 4 acres here, and while that’s not enough acreage for many animals, it’s more than I want to mow so I plan to fence about 3 acres and maybe get a few miniature cows or have a pair of longhorn steers here. Just something to look good and cut down on what I need to mow.

Now for the main 40x60 building.
In the top left corner there’s a 15x18 room that is not labeled, this room would be where the main entrance into the shop would be. I haven’t drawn anything up for it yet, but there would be a full bathroom somewhere in this area and maybe a small man cave type area.

In the bottom left corner, we have an 18x25 garage area where I would park my Duster.

In the 18x40 area above those two rooms, would be a loft/mezzanine for parts storage.

And as can be seen, the remaining 40x42 area would be the main shop area. With this layout, I would be using 14’ side walls with 24’ (over the mezzanine” being scissor trusses and the remaining trusses being standard trusses. All trusses set 4’ on center.
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Next up, we still have a 40x60 with a 12x60 lean-to, but this time the main doors are coming in on the south 40’ gable end.

So first up, we have a smaller 12x12 unlabeled area, which same as the previous sketch, would be the entrance as well as contain a full restroom.

Next to that, we have a 12x12 “lawn room” which would have an 8’ door coming in off the north side of the building.

And then a 12x16 fab room.

Like the previous design, this 12x40 area would have a loft/mezzanine overhead for parts storage.

With this design, I wouldn’t have a separate garage area to park my Duster, but I would have a larger 40x48 shop area. As can be seen, I would park the Duster in the left bay, and have a moveable, 4 post, wildfire lift behind it. If I need to get a car (other than the Duster) on the lift, I can easily move the Duster out.

In the right bay, I’d have a 2 post lift out toward the door, which would leave the rear part of that bay open for a rotisserie/bodywork area, which would conveniently be located closest to the fab room. I also drew in the broken lines to show that I would have the option to put up a temporary paint booth in that area as the need arises.

*NOTE* I would be open to switching the location of the 2 post and 4 post lifts. Since the 4 post is movable, it may be better to put that one by the door in the right bay.

And finally, in the 12x60 lean-to, you can see I'd have a 12x12 stall area in the back, hay/barn storage in front of that and could use whatever is left of that lean-to for parts car storage, future project, trailer storage, etc.

With this design, I could put my posts 10’ on center, 12 or 14’ sidewalls and then use steel clear span scissor trusses for the entire 40x60 shop, giving more headroom throughout the entire shop.
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I’m starting to lean more toward the second design for a few reasons.
1. More open shop space
2. Able to easily get 4 cars straight into the shop vs needing to turn one sideways along back wall in the first design.
3. Able to utilize the lean-to for car/trailer storage.
4. This may be the biggest reason… even though I haven’t quoted these designs, I’m positive design 2 will be cheaper. And here’s another list as to why.
A. Design 1 has more interior walls to frame out.
B. Design 1 requires concreting the 40x60 shop PLUS at least the 12x16 fab room, and realistically probably both the 12x16 fab room, the 12x12 lawn room and maybe even the 12x16 stall area for easier clean out. Design 2 would only require the 40x60 pad and MAYBE the 12x12 stall area.
C. Design 1 requires more insulation for the lawn and fab rooms where as design 2 would again only need the main 40x60 shop insulated.

I believe that’s all I’ve got at this time. Looking forward to hearing y’all’s thoughts.
 
I like the idea of using 'Hurricane Clips' in the post above. They may hold your roof for a F1, MAY. Bright Sinkers to nail the roof trusses should be banned. I use construction screws for most. Takes a lot longer

I also use 1 1/2 inch #8 construction screws to hold my roof plywood down and use the roofing nails that have the square and are ring shank.

We do get F1 and F2 tornadoes up here in western Washington State. But more likely just a 70 to 100+ MPH blow 5 or 6 times a year. Derencho Storms
Screws are illegal where I'm at. They bent one way, one time, then break. Everything is Build for Uplift here. Steel in the foundation, continually strapped AND braced/ engineering added in areas like Gables, Trusses, sometimes in floor systems...
 
Screws are illegal where I'm at. They bent one way, one time, then break. Everything is Build for Uplift here. Steel in the foundation, continually strapped AND braced/ engineering added in areas like Gables, Trusses, sometimes in floor systems...
I'm from the same area. Concrete slab with rebar footers, columns and tie beam. All tied together. Metal straps holding down the trusses (roof). Shed: Concrete slab with "L" shape threaded anchors placed in the raw concrete at perimeter, bolt walling to anchors and strap frame. Strap wall to trusses (roof). I do use screws and nails on the trusses, but nail the 5/8 sheeting to the trusses. Not sure, but I think the reason that they say, not to use screws is if you ever need to replace the sheeting it will be difficult to remove. I do agree with the post, not to follow with a "T" on any forums, but they give some good paths to approach. Put a couple together and you may find the answer you are looking for. I would like to think that we are all here to help one another with their projects.
 
Screws have basically no sheer strength. Nails have tremendous sheer strength.
Screws are not allowed for a large majority of items on a home. Just pick up the latest IBC code book, read it and ya might be surprised how often screws are not allowed. Pretty much, no hanger or connector should have screws used to fasten them. Roof sheeting should be staples as first choice, ring shank 8pn nails next. No screws should ever be used on sheeting. According to my code book and my engineer anyway. For that matter, most wood components should not be screwed together.

Bolts are different than screws. Bolts come with sheer values and are noted by the engineers as to what sizes to use for the sheer strength.

Screws are for trim and non structural construction.
 
OK, screw it.... NOPE don't screw it.

IMHO, do not use shiny 'BRIGHT' nails if you can help it. They pull out too easy. Concrete dipped or Ring Shank are harder to pull.

When we had a F1 tornado hit a town near by my house a lot of roofs were ripped off. One house did not. The one that had screws added to the Truss Plates and had Simson Strong Tie Hurricane straps. They put 5 screws in each Truss Plate.
Houses on all sides lost their roofs. This house lost maybe 50 shingles, they used 6 staples per shingle
Hurracane tie.jpeg
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Interesting. I've never seen anyone put screws through their gang nailing.
That would do a good job keeping the gang nailing from sliding side to side during a storm situation. Good addition for those gang nailings.
Back in the day, truss's were all put together with pieces of plywood or wood blocks. Gang nailing has replaced that style and lost it's deeper penetration due to ease of installation and lighter building techniques.
@Dave_J Did that one house install screws on both sides of the truss and into each gang nail? Pinning both sides to the truss members.
 
Interesting. I've never seen anyone put screws through their gang nailing.
That would do a good job keeping the gang nailing from sliding side to side during a storm situation. Good addition for those gang nailings.
Back in the day, truss's were all put together with pieces of plywood or wood blocks. Gang nailing has replaced that style and lost it's deeper penetration due to ease of installation and lighter building techniques.
@Dave_J Did that one house install screws on both sides of the truss and into each gang nail? Pinning both sides to the truss members.
We've added plywood gussets to trusses along the coast for Extra Engineering...
 
I just looked, it was an EF2 that hit Port Orchard WA in 2021.
It was my Uncles house. He ordered the trusses. Built in 1982. Everyone thought he was wasting time and money putting Hurricane straps on. He also put 2X6's across the tops of the rafters at the ridge so each truss was tied to the next.
The winds get up to 110 MPH. Hardly ever a F2 up here but getting more and more.

He screwed both sides using 1 1/2 inch #10 screws at an angle away from each other. In each Hurricane strap he used nails in all holes but three where he screwed those.

Many other homes used the Gang plates and the plates peeled out when the 2x6's twisted in the winds of the F2

We also get some 5+ Richter scale earthquakes so his house was strapped and diagonally braced for that too.
 
Since he is using closed cell foam the spans can be sprayed as long as there is a batten board for a backer. The closed cell foam will harden and create it's own self supporting wall to an extent. Incredible stuff.

My opinion, do not build a "pole" barn. They are cheaper because there is no "foundation". Instead, you get "pole's" of wood put into the ground. Even in the desert around here the poles will rot or be eaten. Well worth the price of a foundation. I have a few pole barns both in the desert and the high desert and they are not worthy of the cost savings of not having a foundation.

Not all pole barns are built that way. Some newer techniques are being used. Pouring concrete pylons and attaching the post to that using brackets designed for it. There is no contact with the ground. So in essence they have a pseudo foundation but nothing like you're talking about.
 
If we could bring the nail v. Screw topic to a close and get back to the original topic, that’d be great.
 
Ever try pulling out a ring shank??? Ain't gonna happen. It will pull all the way thru the board first.
Yep. ALL DAY LONG! They are my go-to. Galvanized Glue coated Ring Shanks.... it's a shame I still have to explain that to people this day and age on jobs where customers watch these freaking shows where someone up north is doing something in a basement that has nothing to do with the outside of the house in Florida by the water and they think they know more than the freaking Carpenter
 
Not all pole barns are built that way. Some newer techniques are being used. Pouring concrete pylons and attaching the post to that using brackets designed for it. There is no contact with the ground. So in essence they have a pseudo foundation but nothing like you're talking about.

I agree. I have built 2 pylon style pole barns. Way better than a standard pole barn. 1 had wood poles and the other red metal.
But if your going to build a pylon style barn, might as well just purchase red steel/Isteel/structural steel. Build the main frame out of metal and connect wood to that or continue with metal purlins/girts/bracing etc. A full metal building that is pre ordered to be set on concrete pylon's can actually be a very reasonable price.
When comparing price to price, the taller you build the more efficient metal becomes. Metal allows taller spans.
 
Doesn't Simpson make screws specifically for their hangers? Are those not approved by code?
Yes, I use several types of simpson screws. Still, not as much sheer strength as a nail of equivalent size.
I use this system on the majority of my I.C.F. homes.
simpson ICF-D3.25

This is not for the truss or roof strapping. These are internal assemblies. Some external assemblies allow screws. Deck rim boards particularly. Code requires any deck to be nailed together with hangers being the main holder. I disagree, I overbuild everything.

Just had to add in that little tid bit about screws.
 
Yes, I use several types of simpson screws. Still, not as much sheer strength as a nail of equivalent size.
I use this system on the majority of my I.C.F. homes.
simpson ICF-D3.25

This is not for the truss or roof strapping. These are internal assemblies. Some external assemblies allow screws. Deck rim boards particularly. Code requires any deck to be nailed together with hangers being the main holder. I disagree, I overbuild everything.

Just had to add in that little tid bit about screws.
We use Alot of 1/2" galvanized Through Bolts w/ washers here. If it's non Accessible, Lags... I've built Alot of Docks, Porches, decks, ect... the State owns the Bay, so it best be Right!
 
I agree. I have built 2 pylon style pole barns. Way better than a standard pole barn. 1 had wood poles and the other red metal.
But if your going to build a pylon style barn, might as well just purchase red steel/Isteel/structural steel. Build the main frame out of metal and connect wood to that or continue with metal purlins/girts/bracing etc. A full metal building that is pre ordered to be set on concrete pylon's can actually be a very reasonable price.
When comparing price to price, the taller you build the more efficient metal becomes. Metal allows taller spans.

I agree steel is better, but the cost tipover is the concrete. Pylons and a 4" floating slab cost way less than a well done
"foundation" for a steel structure.
 
This is sorta what I had in mind, although I’d probably just go get the pipe from the local steel shop vs spending $120 apiece.

Jaypro Insert Converts 4

Nevermind, the $120 piece is only a sleeve to reduce the floor insert from 4” to 3.5”! The actual floor insert is over $500!!! :eek: :realcrazy:
Jaypro 3-1/2


That's no anchor pot... The ones I sent are 75 each and you'd only need a few. That said, if you're not worried about ever removing them, you can make the same functional thing yourself. There are plenty of examples.
 
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