So you want 2 go Big block...Read this first!

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I'll get pictures of mine.
My '71 Dart uses the stock /6 front end.
And my '72 Demon uses the stock 340 front suspension.
Unless someone changed your front end to a '67 Dart, I can't understand why it wouldn't fit.
What mounts did you use?
I used a B body Oil pan. and Schumaker mounts.
 
Mopower71 said:
I'll get pictures of mine.
My '71 Dart uses the stock /6 front end.
And my '72 Demon uses the stock 340 front suspension.
Unless someone changed your front end to a '67 Dart, I can't understand why it wouldn't fit.
What mounts did you use?
I used a B body Oil pan. and Schumaker mounts.
Click to expand...

Shumacker mounts, 187 oil pan, 1973 center link, 1973 manual idler and pitman. all the parts on my /6 duster were completely different..I HAD to change them...and this is something that you have to take into account if your doing a BB swap. Don't bother with the pics, I had tons sent to me when I was trying to figure it out. I don't have pics of mine, but you can read alot of the talk on my post when I made the car. I even joke about it when I do a thank you post to all the members that helped me.

Phil
the stearing linkage talk starts on page one, and comes back again on some other pages
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=33454
 
I know some of you guys are going to disagree with how I built the imaginary cars. You would have bought this, or not that.

I chose to build the car with the best priced parts that I could find, that didn't require ANY modifications made to the part to fitt or anything.

with that said after alot of imaginary wrench turning...let me present....

First,

My /6 to SB build.

  1. $600 running 360, rebuilt 2 years ago with Edelbrock intake, and 4 brl carb. Removed from a truck. Found on Craigslist Vancouver
  2. $50 Dodge dart oil pan ( just guessing on this price for a used one does it seam FAIR?)
  3. $180 Brand New Radiator for a V8 A body
  4. $125 904 Tranny in good shape for A body found on craigslist Seatle)
  5. $105 Headers brand new cheapest pair from Summit Racing
  6. $180 Schumacker mounts
  7. $140 Lower ball joints ( I think that is what I paid for Mine when I did it...reguardless, I will use this same number for the BB swap)
  8. $1000 8 3/4 A body rear 323 sure grip complete drumb to drumb found in craigslist seatle
  9. $195 2.5 inch exhauset new summit raceing with mifflers and hardware.
  10. $500 front disc kit Used ( again, I will use this same number for the BB swap)
  11. I will NOT count nickel and dime things, because in this case it will be the same as the BB swap seeing that we are doing everything. Things not included are plugs, wires, fluids, gaskets, hoses etc etc.
TOTAL=$3075

I don't know what the HP rateing would be, but you still have $925 that you could play with if you wanted to spend the hole thing.

so what do you guys think of the SB build? farly accurate , and not a hack job at all right, and turns out to be fairly presentable street car...right????

Phil

PS Keep in mind, if you found a V8 parts car for $500 ( which is very doable) you can save money on the tranny, oil pan, use the K member instead of the schumacer mounts, and get the complete disc set up. saving you another $355 and you could upgrade the T bars, and get other goodies, for a total of $2720!!!!! Oh, and if you got one of those parts cars with the A body 8 3/4, you can take off another $1000, and you would have built it for $1720. But thats rare
 
OK, here is the BB build, again, I looked for the cheapes parts i could find. One thing that is very noticable is the fact that the BB parts are harder to find. Lots of bare blocks out there that need assembly, But because I don't know how to build an engine, nor do I know all the parts involved, I wanted something complete. and I did find one, and it was cheaper than the 360 small block.

and now.....the BB build...

  1. $450 for a complete carb to pan 440. Stock with a 2 brl that is said to be running condition ( craigslist vancouver
  2. $660 Auto tranny Rebuilt with a shift kit( I know it It is higher than the SB tranny I bought, but this was the ONLY BB car tranny I could find locally ( vancouver craigslist))
  3. $200 BB torker 2 intake used. have to have a 4 brl if the 360 is 4 brl...only fair. vancouver craigslist
  4. $350 for a carb NEW. I wouldn't trust a used one, unless it was from a freind, or could be seen running. from local parts store
  5. $180 Schumacker mounts
  6. $509 for the cheapest NEW BB BOLT on headers. sure you have heard me say that B/E bodies do work...but which ones??i don't know, and they require modifications to be made, and I am building both cars with BOLT ON PARTS. these are fenderwells. I hate fenderwells, but underchassi are more expecive, so I will settle with these even though there will need to be some cutting. from summit racing
  7. $300 Aluminum Rad. I do think that there is no other option. It looks good, and it doesn't have a ford symbol on it. a SB V8 rad might work, but I wouldn't chance overheating an engine, just to see if it will work.
  8. $100 oil pan 187. this is what I paid for mine.
  9. $120 drive shaft shortening, and balancing
  10. $50 Center link. I had to change it on my 1970 duster. don't care what anyone says.
  11. $45 Idler are
  12. $45 Pitman arm
  13. $195 2.5 inch exhaust including all hardware, and mufflers from summit. though because we are using fenderwells, it might cost more...might cost less cause there isn't a kit for fenderwells that I know of. from summit
  14. $500 Disc brakes Same as SB set
  15. $1000 8 3/4 rear..same one as used on SB build craigslist seatle
  16. $160 if using fenderwells you will need frame conectors. Not a good idea to cut up a unibody. summit racing. either this or underchassi headers for $1000. your call.
  17. again...not including nickel and dimeing stufflike plugs, wires, hoses, fluids, gaskets, etc etc.
For a grand total of. $4864.

and if you got a $500 parts car, you would save...well, nothing, cause the disc brakes cost $500, and nothing else could be used. except the throtle cable. hmmm Not really much of a savings huh?
 
SO a SB build will cost $3075 or $2720 if you do it with a parts car.

and a BB build will cost $4864

thats $2144 more than the small block, or -you can say it costs 44% more to build a BB. That isn't even close.

I am sure you guys are guna start whining and say...:crybaby:But you used more expencive headers, and you tranny cost more:crybaby:

:director:THATS THE POINT I AM TRYING TO SAY! BIG BLOCKS COST MORE. end of story. and hey, the 360 is a rebuild, and the SB tranny was said to be OK, for that price it may, or may not be, but if you bought a $600 tranny, you are still only at $3675, and you STILL have another $325 extra, while the BB build whent over budget. Oh, and with that extra $325, you could buy some pretty nice headers to boot. Lets say the BB build used the $200 E/B body headers, that would save $309 bringing the total down to $4553 - another $150 for frame conectors ( which I think you should have on a BB anyways) so the new total is $4400....STILL OVER BUDGET!!!!!!!!

look at the BB build, we don't even know if the engine will run, and it only has 2 HP bolt on parts

So there you go. two builds, using the cheapest BOLT on parts, and only buying what you HAve to buy.

Did I mention that the BB build didn't get T bars either, or a torque strap ( which is recomended, Or a rebuilt engine...or...

Phil
 
I just looked back, I thought it was $4000 limit, oh well, I think you get the point.
 
mrtires24 said:
WRONG BIG TIME. I will fight that till the death. I had so many people tell me that, but when it came time for my motor to go m y 1970 duster, I had to change my center link, and idler and pitman arms for it to work. There was NO clearance at all. The links are completely different.
Click to expand...


wrong big time my ***. i have no idea where you are getting your info at. i have no idea where your getting your parts at or what mis matched parts your using. but i do know i have built 4 or 5 big block a-bodies over the years and have never had a problem with pre 73 pitman arms,idler arms or center links. your doing something wrong man. I've used pro parts headers,fender well headers , b-body headers and custom built headers . pro parts being my favorite. all 440 cars. i used Schumacher mounts on 67-72 6 cyl. k-members on all but 2 of the cars. one had a dc k-member and the other had custom mounts we made (early a) and they all used 67-72 pitman arms,idler arms and center links(except the early a). all had 73 spindles and upper control arms and that was it. hell the 73 duster we did we even put the older k-frame in and used the pre 73 front end stuff because it was easier to do at the time because we had the parts laying around.

I'm done arguing about this with you. this is a stupid argument. believe what you want. your doing something wrong man. a big block into an a-body is as straight forward easy of a swap that there is. headers being your biggest decision. its a bolt in deal for god sakes. its not worth fighting about. i know what parts i used. i learned putting these cars together before any of these web sites were around. its not rocket science here. hell you know how many people told me that a 440 would never fit into a 64 valiant? everyone. why? because thats what one of the stupid magazines said back in the day. well screw that. guess what. other then making my own mounts which were made from c-body bracket and some box steel and custom headers the 440 bolted right into that ***** and was actually easier to work on then the 360 that was in the car before. if i never built a big block a-body, gathered all the parts for one and beat the living hell out of one then i wouldn't be commenting on this subject.
 
You have all kinds of stuff added in to your big block swap that wasnt needed.

With the small block you didnt change intake/carb
You had the trans rebuilt for the big block and not the small block

You had a drive shaft shortend. A small block 727 with a 8-3/4 uses the same drive shaft as a big block with a 727 amd 8-3/4

You centerlink problem was most likely because it was a straight slant 6 piece and not a drop center small block one. Not even a small block pan will clear the straight one.

Summit has a aluminum radiator for $150. You could have used brass just like every big car that ever left the assembly line came with.

Idler arm and pitman arm probably needed to be changed on the small block car after 30 plus years also. Plus if you switched to a 73 pitman arm like you said you would have had to change to the 73 and later steering box as well.

Plenty of cars running around with fender well headers and no frame connectors. 100% needed just like the disc brakes and aluminum radiator werent 100% needed.

Joe,. Were beating a dead horse here so I give up. My point is simply that building a nice car the right way without cutting corners and slapping it together costs money, Big block. small block, slant 6.


Im done with this thread.
 
I know in my 72 Demon, the center link was the same /6 to V8. I'd actually bought a V8 Duster centerlink off of eBay (from a member here I believe) as I'd been told that the V8 centerlinks were different but when it arrived, it was the same piece I already had. Oh well, you can never have too many spare parts! :)
 
Could be, Ive heard mixed info on that. It may have been 66 and earlier cars that had the 2 different center links.
 
I think the center link changes were a year dependent thing?

Reguardless, I love when you need one and the parts store tells you it is a non-wearable part. Then you show them one with ob-long holes.

I think this thread is at an end.
 
LMFAO!!!! I just dont think he gets it!Hey check out ebay for an aluminum radiator.Brand new with the trany cooler built in for $179-$199 from a place called oscars radiators.
 
abodyjoe said:
wrong big time my ***. i have no idea where you are getting your info at. i have no idea where your getting your parts at or what mis matched parts your using. but i do know i have built 4 or 5 big block a-bodies over the years and have never had a problem with pre 73 pitman arms,idler arms or center links. your doing something wrong man. I've used pro parts headers,fender well headers , b-body headers and custom built headers . pro parts being my favorite. all 440 cars. i used Schumacher mounts on 67-72 6 cyl. k-members on all but 2 of the cars. one had a dc k-member and the other had custom mounts we made (early a) and they all used 67-72 pitman arms,idler arms and center links(except the early a). all had 73 spindles and upper control arms and that was it. hell the 73 duster we did we even put the older k-frame in and used the pre 73 front end stuff because it was easier to do at the time because we had the parts laying around.

I'm done arguing about this with you. this is a stupid argument. believe what you want. your doing something wrong man. a big block into an a-body is as straight forward easy of a swap that there is. headers being your biggest decision. its a bolt in deal for god sakes. its not worth fighting about. i know what parts i used. i learned putting these cars together before any of these web sites were around. its not rocket science here. hell you know how many people told me that a 440 would never fit into a 64 valiant? everyone. why? because thats what one of the stupid magazines said back in the day. well screw that. guess what. other then making my own mounts which were made from c-body bracket and some box steel and custom headers the 440 bolted right into that ***** and was actually easier to work on then the 360 that was in the car before. if i never built a big block a-body, gathered all the parts for one and beat the living hell out of one then i wouldn't be commenting on this subject.
Click to expand...

You sure talk negativly towards other members. Look, you may be right on the cars that you worked on, but the one that I had to do on my 1970 duster had to have the center link changed,, and the pitman arms.

I'm glad your done arguing this with me. You are the only one that takes personal jabs, and says I'm wrong, and I'm doing it wrong...when I could be right. I hope you don't come back to this post.

and another thing...so you get lucky and don't have to change the center link, and pitman/idler arms, brings us to $4600!!! you guys are arguing about a $200 thing, thatdoesn't even make a big difference in the price.
Alot of people said that my car may have just been given an older link when it was built just to get it out of the factory ( because they may have run out temporarily of the newer link) reguardless of the fact, I HAD to change it on mine. Beleive me if I didn't have to I wouldn't of.

Hope you don't come back, and you are done arguing. I don't mind the rest of you.

Phil
 
AdamR said:
You have all kinds of stuff added in to your big block swap that wasnt needed.

With the small block you didnt change intake/carb
You had the trans rebuilt for the big block and not the small block The SB engine came with an aluminum intake, and 4 brl..why would I have to buy another one???!!!!??? that was the cheapest complete big bolck I could find. Next xheapest I found locally was $4500, I thought that didn't make sence to use

You had a drive shaft shortend. A small block 727 with a 8-3/4 uses the same drive shaft as a big block with a 727 amd 8-3/4 No it doesn't. B/E body tail shafts are longer. good luck finding a BB A body Auto tranny

You centerlink problem was most likely because it was a straight slant 6 piece and not a drop center small block one. Not even a small block pan will clear the straight one. It wasn't streight, it did have a drop. The link I had had the Tie rods conecting onto the center link paralell to the ground not perpendicular like a later model. The tie rod hit when turning to the right, it was OK if I turned it to the left. because the tie is parallell with the ground on the 73 one, it didn't hit. this would have NOT been an issue with a SB. I will send pics to show you guys

Summit has a aluminum radiator for $150. You could have used brass just like every big car that ever left the assembly line came with. I was going for a local one, but ok...-$150...still at $4500 with center link subtracktion too. But that means we will have to subtract $30 from the SB build too cause that is cheaper than the one that I used $3045

Idler arm and pitman arm probably needed to be changed on the small block car after 30 plus years also. Plus if you switched to a 73 pitman arm like you said you would have had to change to the 73 and later steering box as well. I SAID THAT THE CAR HAD ALL NEW PARTS! only need to change it because it didn't fit on my 1970 duster. I am doing the same things that I had to do...but I subtracted it for all you. Nope stearing box was OK

Plenty of cars running around with fender well headers and no frame connectors. 100% needed just like the disc brakes and aluminum radiator werent 100% needed. I don't understand, you are cutting a unibody! needs suport. but ok, - $150 for frame conectors $4350. I put the discs on the SB build too, I don't know why you are winning about that?!?!

Joe,. Were beating a dead horse here so I give up. My point is simply that building a nice car the right way without cutting corners and slapping it together costs money, Big block. small block, slant 6.


Im done with this thread.
Click to expand...

I don't understand, I proved it. even subtracting what you guys are complaining about it still leaves the SB build at $3045, and the big block at $4350? What don't you guys get?
 
DemonDave said:
I know in my 72 Demon, the center link was the same /6 to V8. I'd actually bought a V8 Duster centerlink off of eBay (from a member here I believe) as I'd been told that the V8 centerlinks were different but when it arrived, it was the same piece I already had. Oh well, you can never have too many spare parts! :)
Click to expand...

thats what I was told too. but mine was different. weird huh
 
Lycandart said:
LMFAO!!!! I just dont think he gets it!Hey check out ebay for an aluminum radiator.Brand new with the trany cooler built in for $179-$199 from a place called oscars radiators.
Click to expand...

OK, doesn't change the price, I said $200 anyways. how much would shipping be though? I was looking for local parts. your complaining about nothing. $200=$200 reguardless where you buy it.

You build two cars, and lets see
 
deadhorse.gif
 
AdamR said:
Remember when Hot Rod did it for $2000?
Click to expand...

Oh man the cheap thrills dart - pretty much the reason i got interested in 68 darts lol. That build is sweet and it made me sad to see the author ( david friedburger) leave Hot Rod a couple months back.
 
mrtires24 said:
I don't understand, I proved it. even subtracting what you guys are complaining about it still leaves the SB build at $3045, and the big block at $4350? What don't you guys get?
Click to expand...
If my conversions cost that much, I probably would still be running around with a /6.
Everbody has there own way of doing things. I was on a real tight budget, but by looking around you can find cars for parts.
My only new stuff was the engine mounts, headers, and shifter.
 
Oh, and the slicks, when the G70's wouldn't stick to the track.
So my junkyard build would run 12.65, and that was still spinning the little
8.5x26x15 slicks.

I did splurge on the Demon, and bought a used engine for $1700.
With no tuning it ran a 11.83 first time out.
 
8 pages on this Bullshit LMFAO.......Build what you want .And good luck to ya.
 
To anyone interested in building a BB a body its not that costly to do if you look around and you can do a good build on the cheap!
AND I'M OUT!!
 
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