So you want 2 go Big block...Read this first!

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mrtires24 said:
c

if you guys are comparing a 340 to a 440 which would you buy... a complete 440 for $500, or a complete 340 for $500? both may or may not run.
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Now? The 340 but mostly because my car is already set-up for the small block (after much expense). As I mentioned above, I was all set to go 440 before the rug was pulled out from under me... if I was starting over, 440 just for the cachet of having an RB a-body again. :)
 
No thats where your wrong not all later 440's were cast crank motors...many motorhome 's had forged cranks.and as far as smog ..alot of pro's have done comparisons on later heads and found that they are very compairable to the early 906's.not all 340's where HP.Common mistake people make.IMO a 440 of any kind has more potential to make more HP and TQ than a SB.And IMO alot of People over look the 400 because of BAD information.
 
corect me if I am wrong I don't know the guts of engines verywell. a 440 motor home motor has a cast crank, and it is better to have a forged ( or is it the other way around) 340's have a better crank and a better platform to start with. 440 motor home is a smogger, where a 340 is a HP motor. 340 are high winding, where a 440 motor home one isn't.

I am pulling at strings on this one, but that is what I have heard, and think.

Phil

if you guys are comparing a 340 to a 440 which would you buy... a complete 440 for $500, or a complete 340 for $500? both may or may not run.
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ok. motor home i would thing could have either cast or steel crank depending on year.

340 can also have either crank depending on year.

a cast crank is fine depending what you want to do wit it. i believe its limits are in the 500-600hp range. so anything up to that is fine. my 440 that was in my valiant and demon had a cast crank. car ran mid 12's on street tires and probably could have dipped into the 11's with traction and more tuning. was street driven and got the living **** beat out of it and that cast crank was just fine. problem is people tend to take what the magazines say as gospil and bad mouth the cast cranks, but in realality they are fine up to that point. plus the cast cranks came out at the same time the compression ratios dropped for emmissions so they get a bad wrap for that too.

as far as the smogger part of it goes. the blocks are all the same. 68 i think it is has a little more nickle in it and later years are said to be thinner walled but the blocks are pretty much the same. a smogger 440 can be built the same as a HP 440. different years had different head castings. in the past because the magazines said the 906 heads were best everyone had to have them. now the 346 and 452 heads are better to hog out. plus the later heads have hardened seats wich are good.



between a running 340 and a running 440 for $500. i would buy the 340 and sell it to some idiot numbers guy that wants it for a nice profit and then go buy the 440 and have money left over to put parts into the 440.. :)
 
Actually ALL 340s were high performance, and with the exception of the 68 four speed motor, all left the factory with the same cam specs. There is NO durability difference in any 340, either. Also, nothing wrong with a cast crank until you try to make "real power".

And as far what Joe has said. Here is what I believe EVERY street a-body needs, whether it's got a /6 or a 572 Hemi:
1. Front discs brakes, 10" or 11" rear drums.
2. .890 torsion bars or larger (I prefer larger).
3. Factory front sway bar or larger.
4. Good bushings/ball joints (generally means a rebuild on an old car).
5. 15" wheels with quality tires for braking and handling.
6. Heavy duty rear leaf springs (these can be cobbled up from pieces or bought new).
7. Good shocks (open to opinion on what constitues good shocks).

Any other definciency will vary from car to car and how much abuse/neglect it has seen over the years and really doesn't factor in the current discussion. Since I believe all of the above is necessary for even a /6 commuter it should not be counted for any build comparison.

That leaves the other stuff from the original post. And the given prices are fairly accurate as to what you should expect to be able to get parts for.

Also, I have never done a slant to small block swap so I have never had the "swap" expenses in any car that I've built with a small block. The fact that my Barracuda had a slant in it when I bought it was not a problem, I just sold the engine/trans to a friend and threw out the bad k-member.
 
Ok, lets settle this. we are going to have a senerio. we are all going tohave this imaginary car, and I want people to build it and include a brake down of there costs. Try and think of everything you can, and try and provide links to where you can get these parts from. I still thinkyou guys are Nuts to think it can be done for the same price.

here is the senerio.....

Project car.

1969 barracuda with a /6 auto 7 1/4 rear. and drums all the way around. manual stearing car, with ALL NEW ball joints and bushings allready done.

Goal. to swap the /6 and rear and brakes for a SB or BB around 300-400hp with 8 3/4, and discs. try and include links to where your getting your parts from, or make up a realistic used price that you see around the internet.

Limit. $5000 or less

and only change things that you HAVE to change
 
the reason I was asking which would you buy. 340 or 440? was because everyone was saying in order to do a proper comparison, I should use a 340 to compare to a 440. but you guys just proved a 340 would be a way better deal at $500 that a 440 would be. a 360 and 440 are very simular in price, and both can be built up quite nicely.

reguardless which way you go, one of my main points to the costs being more to do this BB build is the fact that the engine costs more than a SB, unless you go for a rare 340 SB...that is a fact!
 
Hey Jim, do you think a BB swap and SB swap costs the same, if you only do what you have to do.
 
Yup I was late on ht elink...But i guess late is better than never!And I guess by now you have figured out the difference in a low block and a raised block and what LMAO stands for?
 
mrtires24 said:
Ok, lets settle this. we are going to have a senerio. we are all going tohave this imaginary car, and I want people to build it and include a brake down of there costs. Try and think of everything you can, and try and provide links to where you can get these parts from. I still thinkyou guys are Nuts to think it can be done for the same price.

here is the senerio.....

Project car.

1969 barracuda with a /6 auto 7 1/4 rear. and drums all the way around. manual stearing car, with ALL NEW ball joints and bushings allready done.

Goal. to swap the /6 and rear and brakes for a SB or BB around 300-400hp with 8 3/4, and discs. try and include links to where your getting your parts from, or make up a realistic used price that you see around the internet.

Limit. $5000 or less

and only change things that you HAVE to change
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hell i don't have time to do that right now. after work in the morning i have to get a few hours of sleep and pack for vacation. will be gone for a week. maybe when i get home if i remember i'll look some stuff up.


1969 barracuda with a /6 auto 7 1/4 rear. and drums all the way around. manual stearing car, with ALL NEW ball joints and bushings allready done.
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those new ball joints and bushings mean nothing if your going to switch to big bolt disc brakes.
 
abodyjoe said:
hell i don't have time to do that right now. after work in the morning i have to get a few hours of sleep and pack for vacation. will be gone for a week. maybe when i get home if i remember i'll look some stuff up.




those new ball joints and bushings mean nothing if your going to switch to big bolt disc brakes.
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true to a point, but if you are going big block, and disc, your going to have to change the hole stearing system. reguardless if it is new or not. need a 73 and up centger link, 73 idler and pitman arm. don't need to change those if you are doing SB

:)

Phil
 
Lycandart said:
Yup I was late on ht elink...But i guess late is better than never!And I guess by now you have figured out the difference in a low block and a raised block and what LMAO stands for?
Click to expand...

I still don't know what LMAO stands for. Hey we are all learing somthing every day. but late is late ;)

LMAO

Little
Motor
A body
overhaul :)
 
mrtires24 said:
I still don't know what LMAO stands for. Hey we are all learing somthing every day. but late is late ;)

LMAO

Little
Motor
A body
overhaul :)
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Laughing My A$$ Off ;)

PS: I want to swap a crate Hemi into my imaginary Barracuda... can I borrow some money for the build? I just know it'll be way more than a 440 swap. LMAO! :D
 
You can always find an A-body that has a big block in it from the factory but finding a decent one for less than 5 figures may be tough. Per some earlier threads there are cars here that have well over 20k in them. It`s all in what you want your car to be.
 
i would rather have the big block cause i like big blocks,my car now has a 340 that run's in the 12's but for me 12's is not good enough. i have a 440 that will push my car into the 10 flat or high 9's and i will only have like 15 grand in the whole car. i live in milwaukee wis and here we are very serious about our street raceing.I know just like everybody else i don't have the fastest car but the fastest car doesn't win. oh ya and if the motor dont do it i have 400 hp of nos under the carb and 400 hp nos inthe intake so i think that will do

my 440+ duster 002 (Small).jpg


my 440+ duster 005.jpg
 
mrtires24 said:
true to a point, but if you are going big block, and disc, your going to have to change the hole stearing system. reguardless if it is new or not. need a 73 and up centger link, 73 idler and pitman arm. don't need to change those if you are doing SB

:)

Phil
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no thats not 100% true. all you have to change is from the lower balljoint to the upper control arm. meaning you need the 73 upper control arm,spindle/rotor/caliper, and lower ball joint. the 73 centerlink, idler arm & pitman arm is not needed for a small block or a big block. the 67-72 have a drop down V-8 centerlink that fits a big block c-body pan in an A-body perfect. but yes the bushings and ball joint have to changed no matter what motor you put in if your going to a 73 disc brake set up.
 
As far as a small block costing roughly the same as a big block swap. In MY CASE, the difference would wind up only being the cost of the engine and related accessories. The rest of the build would consist of exactly the same parts (well the transmission would be different, but cost the same). In my thirty years in this hobby I have never recommended a 340 for a car that is not an original 340 car (although I did get a good deal on the 340 that's in my GTS). The reason is simply cost and a 360 is a more cost effective approach to the same end.

So, with that said. You can still find a 360 for a $150 (or thereabouts) at a self serve wrecking yard. Not many 440s left, except in the motorhomes. I think a 440 engine kit is a little more than a comparable 360 kit, but machining will cost the same. The 440 gets more expensive if you're buying from another individual.
 
mrtires24 said:
true to a point, but if you are going big block, and disc, your going to have to change the hole stearing system. reguardless if it is new or not. need a 73 and up centger link, 73 idler and pitman arm. don't need to change those if you are doing SB

:)

Phil
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abodyjoe said:
no thats not 100% true. all you have to change is from the lower balljoint to the upper control arm. meaning you need the 73 upper control arm,spindle/rotor/caliper, and lower ball joint. the 73 centerlink, idler arm & pitman arm is not needed for a small block or a big block. the 67-72 have a drop down V-8 centerlink that fits a big block c-body pan in an A-body perfect. but yes the bushings and ball joint have to changed no matter what motor you put in if your going to a 73 disc brake set up.
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I've built 2 Big Block A bodies and have never had to change anything but what Joe mentioned. The 6cyl center link worked just fine with a very small amount of oil pan massaging.
I went cheap on my Dart, and put a set of '72 Charger spindles, with the big disks and everything fits fine. Chager was $50, new quaters, 400 auto, need ed rear window. Ran this with a 68 440 from a $200 Satilite.
I also used the 6cyl torsion bars, But, they are a bit light for street use.
My whole Dart build I did for right around $2500, including the car. It was built in the mid to late '90's. The 440 came from a $200 junk yard satilite. The person drove it to the yard and proceeded to run the heck out of it in front of the Junk yard untill they blew it up, then pushed it in.
I opened the hood, looked around for a few seconds, closed the hood and gave the j/y $200 to bring it to my house. Got home that evening and brought home a distributor cap. Swapped caps an fired up the sweet running 440, that had split the cap in half.
Rear was given to me, 4:10 posi, 11" brakes. bought the Dart for $900, sold the /6 and tranny. Bought headers and Shumaker mounts, Shifter, and started assembling.
I did have to fork over $400 for slicks when I brought the car to the track, as the G70's just couldn't hold the power.
 
abodyjoe said:
no thats not 100% true. all you have to change is from the lower balljoint to the upper control arm. meaning you need the 73 upper control arm,spindle/rotor/caliper, and lower ball joint. the 73 centerlink, idler arm & pitman arm is not needed for a small block or a big block. the 67-72 have a drop down V-8 centerlink that fits a big block c-body pan in an A-body perfect. but yes the bushings and ball joint have to changed no matter what motor you put in if your going to a 73 disc brake set up.
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WRONG BIG TIME. I will fight that till the death. I had so many people tell me that, but when it came time for my motor to go m y 1970 duster, I had to change my center link, and idler and pitman arms for it to work. There was NO clearance at all. The links are completely different.
 
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