Solid cam damage diagnosis help

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I don’t, but there is a pic of a master:

I’m sure as the cnc thing gets more prevalent, those machines will be phased out.

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Cam Base "Runout"-Excessive? UDHarold - Chevelle Tech

4th post.

I also saw an old Crane price list where they showed the costs for custom gangmasters.
It was about $4200 for a 16 lobe unit.

Crane was really huge back in the day. They owned CMC(big white box grinder), owned Wolverine, and were one of the key players of the roller cam core supply for the rest of the industry.
 
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I got an idea... let's all call asking if Dave could give us porting tips.. i want you all to hear him flip out and act all insulted...
Then tell him you want to buy 1 head and only 1 head...so that you can copy his work ... he'll lose his **** and hang up on you. I used to call and **** with him ALL the time. He was such a clown, I'd call and start out praising him for him cam I bought...then go on to say how good a 'door stop ' it is with its wasted sharp triangular lobes... 'best door stop I ever paid 200 dollars for, thanks dave!' Heckled'em..
 
PRH said:
One of my local customers put a 455 Pontiac together a couple years ago.

Start up/break in went well.
Gets everything dialed in, all seems good.
He’s driving the car on his way to delivering it to the owner...... hears something he didn’t like at a stop light.
Oil pressure looks a tad low.
Shuts it off..... starts it up again..... hears the noise again.

Has one of his guys come get him with the trailer.
Pulls oil filter..... there’s metal in it.

Motor comes out and apart.
Rod bearing is failing.

Happens to give the cam a close look over......one of the lobes appears to be starting to go.

Brings it over to me for a look.
Yup, that lobe is going, and several others don’t look great.
And the wear pattern is right down the middle of the lobes.
I checked the taper in the lathe.
The most taper any of the lobes had was about .0005(1/2 a thou).
The one with the failed lobe basically had none.

Here is the argument against the white box special cams.
They are almost always ground on big production machines, using gang masters......... and those machines have 16 grinding wheels, and grind all the lobes simultaneously.
So, this means there are 16 different wheels, that get dressed individually, that can have potentially 16 varying degrees of taper.
On a traditional machine, or a cnc machine...... the one grinding wheel does all the lobes...... so the lobe taper should be consistent for all the lobes(could be consistently good..... or as in the case of the OP...... consistently bad).
Click to expand...

Likely ground at Camshaft Machine Company in Michigan... just as all the catalog Comp, Isky, Crane, MP, Lunati etc. are ground. Nothing wrong with that but...
 
high as 45%. They either had too little taper or the vast majority had a wedge cut on them.

That was the mid 2000’s and I still check them all.

The junk that makes it to market today is sickening.[/QUOTE]
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The green machines.... numerous at engle.
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Likely they grind the custom orders on the Berco and CMC does the shelf grindz.

When I visited Comp on Democrat Rd. In Memphis late 70s they had about 6 Bercos... that's it.
 
When I visited Comp on Democrat Rd. In Memphis late 70s they had about 6 Bercos... that's it.
Click to expand...

At one point not too long ago they had 13 Bercos running, and when things were really hopping..... running two shifts.

They also had a few CNC grinders at the same time.

Since then, I think they have maybe stopped using a couple of the Bercos, and have added more CNC capability, along with the capability of being able to produce a cam from a piece bar stock, including tool steel.
 
Krooser said:
high as 45%. They either had too little taper or the vast majority had a wedge cut on them.

That was the mid 2000’s and I still check them all.

The junk that makes it to market today is sickening.
Click to expand...

Likely they grind the custom orders on the Berco and CMC does the shelf grindz.

When I visited Comp on Democrat Rd. In Memphis late 70s they had about 6 Bercos... that's it.[/QUOTE]
I realize I made it sound as if they're were a sea of machines at engle. 5 or 6 sounds about right. Half the huge *** building are kit cars, some kinda vw driven stuff iirr. The dad and the sons were into different ****. The one son, I forget his name, was into midgets and or dirt track. I have a pic somewhere of me sitting in his race car in his garage in Santa Monica. Almost 18 years ago. He had a lathe setup that would cut down moly retainers ...n I was playing with big block retainers on my 410 sb because they gave more height that I needed...but they snapped into the springs...and that's a spring breaking deal..so I needed them cut etc..
..Nice when they give you a tour and treat you like fam.
 
I’m pretty sure Engle was sold several years ago.
I’m not sure there are any “Engles” still there.
 
PRH said:
I’m pretty sure Engle was sold several years ago.
I’m not sure there are any “Engles” still there.
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Oh yeah Jack's been gone a while.
Son lives nearby though and still runs those cams...and Chris ,still there and has been there forever. So one side is the kit car vs, the other side is Chris's where house stock in front and the other building attached on the back is where they grind/machine/parkerize
 
When the business was sold, it was supposedly moved.
This would have been 2009 as near as I can tell.

“New” location is 6801 Paramount Blvd, Long Beach

It appears to be in the same building as the new owner......So Cal Imports.

None of this really matters...... just rambling on...... that things never stay the same forever.
 
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Wyrmrider said:
I was NOT able to match Hughes HR cams with Howards lobe list
They could be custom
say like their "agressive" hr lobes
or hughes could have another grindern for hr and maybe others
with cnc grinders you can pretty much grind anything you can computr with no master
except Jones inverse radius roller grinds
ground with a 5" wheel
Click to expand...
Heard grumblings that Bullet grinds their cams.
 
PRH said:
When the business was sold, it was supposedly moved.
This would have been 2009 as near as I can tell.

“New” location is 6801 Paramount Blvd, Long Beach

It appears to be in the same building as the new owner......So Cal Imports.

None of this really matters...... just rambling on...... that things never stay the same forever.
Click to expand...
Yes, you copied from another sight.
Old news?? ENGLE CAMS has been bought out
Verbatim. Lol
It moved, down the street as Chris put it. ;) 10 yrs ago.
I picked up a cam and toured the new facility at that time, same building as now. Spoke with him about 2 months ago, he was ordering up more cores and was low on springs.. probably figured that out by now.
I'm going there probably in a week to pick up 2 more.
 
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mini said:
Heard grumblings that Bullet grinds their cams.
Click to expand...
I had heard for years (since I got back on the Mopar bandwagon 18 years ago) that Bullet ground the Hughes bumpsticks ( that's what the cool kids call them)... Seems we know different now.

Don't remember the name but there is one guy at Howard's that is a Mopar affectionado (means lover for those of you in Rio Linda) and he is a good source for info. But Howard's won't sell direct...I bought from Comp Products next door.
 
I talked to Bullet a while back about whether they ground cams for Hughes, they said only some HR stuff years ago. As seems to be common knowledge Engle ground Hughes cams back in the early 2000s, then ??? after Engle, and now Howards. I bought a cam from Hughes in that middle ??? era. Ran good and never had a problem, wish I knew who ground their cams at that time. Its pretty close to bullet's profiles but not quite.
My next cam will probably be from Bullet, Crower, or Jones.
 
skrews said:
I talked to Bullet a while back about whether they ground cams for Hughes, they said only some HR stuff years ago. As seems to be common knowledge Engle ground Hughes cams back in the early 2000s, then ??? after Engle, and now Howards. I bought a cam from Hughes in that middle ??? era. Ran good and never had a problem, wish I knew who ground their cams at that time. Its pretty close to bullet's profiles but not quite.
My next cam will probably be from Bullet, Crower, or Jones.
Click to expand...
Highly recommend Bullet. Just got my first solid roller ground from them. Expensive but quality work.
 
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skrews said:
I talked to Bullet a while back about whether they ground cams for Hughes, they said only some HR stuff years ago. As seems to be common knowledge Engle ground Hughes cams back in the early 2000s, then ??? after Engle, and now Howards. I bought a cam from Hughes in that middle ??? era. Ran good and never had a problem, wish I knew who ground their cams at that time. Its pretty close to bullet's profiles but not quite.
My next cam will probably be from Bullet, Crower, or Jones.
Click to expand...
Engle stopped around maybe 2003...+/- yr. I'll have to ask again.
 
Been reading this thread with interest but keeping to myself...
In my 75 Duster 360 had a Hughes 5460 go flat after maybe a dozen passes or sooner.....replaced with a MP 571 Oval track cam....NO problems...Ran best pass..
Just checked a back up engine for 75 Duster 360 with Hughes 5460....and it has 3 flat lobes.....just had break in time....

71 Duster 408.....had Hughes 6468 go flat on break in...I think I got the lifters mixed up so lets say that one is on me...
Had Hughes 6468 in this engine....noticed it had slowed down....flat lobe....
Engine now has MP 590.....broke in last night....sounds great today again....checked valves everything ok....

new 408 with TF heads sitting on engine stand with Hughes 6468.....seriously thinking about yanking that cam out.....putting a MP590 in as it seems they are not going flat...lol
Got a brand new Hughes 6064 in the box....think it going to stay there....
All these cams were bought within the last two years.....
Got a Hughes 5663 in Demon...old Engle cam....been in there 14 yrs no problem.....
Something has changed...
 
70aarcuda said:
Been reading this thread with interest but keeping to myself...
In my 75 Duster 360 had a Hughes 5460 go flat after maybe a dozen passes or sooner.....replaced with a MP 571 Oval track cam....NO problems...Ran best pass..
Just checked a back up engine for 75 Duster 360 with Hughes 5460....and it has 3 flat lobes.....just had break in time....

71 Duster 408.....had Hughes 6468 go flat on break in...I think I got the lifters mixed up so lets say that one is on me...
Had Hughes 6468 in this engine....noticed it had slowed down....flat lobe....
Engine now has MP 590.....broke in last night....sounds great today again....checked valves everything ok....

new 408 with TF heads sitting on engine stand with Hughes 6468.....seriously thinking about yanking that cam out.....putting a MP590 in as it seems they are not going flat...lol
Got a brand new Hughes 6064 in the box....think it going to stay there....
All these cams were bought within the last two years.....
Got a Hughes 5663 in Demon...old Engle cam....been in there 14 yrs no problem.....
Something has changed...
Click to expand...


You can check the taper in a lathe. I’d be a bit nervous myself at this point. I’d either replace it or at least check it.
 
70aarcuda said:
If I take it out...it aint going back in..,lol
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I can understand that...... but it would be interesting to check the taper on the cams that you had go bad.

If they have the staggered taper, and the correct amount of taper...... at least you’d know what it wasn’t.
 
I'm starting to think the recommended spring pressures are too high for the fast ramp.
But then again I think too much. lol
 
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