stumped!

[JelloB1afra]

Alright, dudes. I need your help. I finished rebuilding a 360magnum, got it dropped in the car, and ready to go.

and now for the life of me, i can't get it started. all cylinders are getting spark, grounded properly, and the starter is spinning fast enough.

my suspicion is that i dont have the distributor oriented correctly. it's one of those HEI skipwhite dizzys off of ebay. at top dead center i had the rotor pointed at the #1 cylinder.

anybody have any ideas? i know how the stock distributors line up, but this one didnt come with any instructions. i have a feeling its something really simple and im just missing it.

 

[diymirage]

top dead center of what?
compression stroke or exhaust stroke ?

 

[RedFish]

The rotor doesn't point at #1 cylinders physical location. The rotor points at the #1 plug wire location on the cap.

 

[318willrun]

Well, you can pull the dist. and point the rotor 180 degrees opposite direction and see if you get something firing. Usually if your timing is way off, you get some backfire, or coughing through the carb. You didn't say anything about the fuel. It's getting gas, I assume??? I've never personally ran one of those 42.00 dollar China HEI dizzy's.

 

[JelloB1afra]

top dead center of what?
compression stroke or exhaust stroke ?

i think it was compression. pulled the spark plug from the number 1 cylinder and put my finger up to it til air came out.

The rotor doesn't point at #1 cylinders physical location. The rotor points at the #1 plug wire location on the cap.

right. the first time i tried i did it to the physical location lol. but i figured that out

Well, you can pull the dist. and point the rotor 180 degrees opposite direction and see if you get something firing. Usually if your timing is way off, you get some backfire, or coughing through the carb. You didn't say anything about the fuel. It's getting gas, I assume??? I've never personally ran one of those 42.00 dollar China HEI dizzy's.

hmm i may need to put it back the way i had it then. on a couple tries, it would cough a little bit. yeah its getting fuel.


if any of you guys use this dizzy, which direction do you guys have the vacuum advance facing? just so i have a landmark.

 

[67Dart273]

There is NO need to fuss with this put it in and start the engine

Pull the no 1 plug. Stick your finger in. Bump the engine around, IE screwdriver across the start relay. When you START to feel compression (you may have to go round a couple of times to get the feel) STOP. Now look for the marks and bump the engine until the marks come "up."

DO NOT set the marks on TDC, but rather "where you want" the timing to be. That is, 10, 12, 15 BTDC wherever you want the timing.

Set the distributor in. Bear in mine there is a textbook "right" way to orient the drive gear, but it just doesn't matter. Plus, some distributors do NOT have the rotor aligned with the drive tang "the same way."

If the rotor does not point to your liking, turn the dist. around. If not, you'll have to "walk" the drive gear with a big screwdriver.

Otherwise, "throw" the distributor in and forget it.

Now, rotate the distributor body so that the vacuum can "is in" a good place, clear of obstructions, with plenty of movement.

Figure out which cap tower the rotor is "coming to" as it goes CLOCKwise. Plug the no1 wire into that hole

Before setting the cap on, set the dist. body so that the pickup device is centered IE in the LED / magnet/ points open whatever it has.

Put it together and start it up.

ALSO you can look at the timing marks "on the starter."

 

[BIG-B-Barracuda]

Your in San Pedro? That's not to far from me I'm not an expert but two heads better than one if you get more Stuck-

 

[67Dart273]

Some things to keep in the back of your mind........

1....Any chance the cam is timed incorrect? We've had guys mistake the markings on an advance / retard multi -keyway cam drive set

2.....We had one guy who ended up mistakenly with a reverse grind marine cam

3......Any chance the valves are open? Does it have compression?

Compression, Spark, and fuel.

Any chance the fuel is stale?

 

[318willrun]

Some things to keep in the back of your mind........

1....Any chance the cam is timed incorrect? We've had guys mistake the markings on an advance / retard multi -keyway cam drive set

2.....We had one guy who ended up mistakenly with a reverse grind marine cam

3......Any chance the valves are open? Does it have compression?

Compression, Spark, and fuel.

Any chance the fuel is stale?

this is kind of my feeling too, something else is going on..... and may not be related to the dizzy at all

 

[JelloB1afra]

Your in San Pedro? That's not to far from me I'm not an expert but two heads better than one if you get more Stuck-

thanks for the offer, man. ive seen another dart around here with a fabo sticker on it. this is a pretty cool community.

Some things to keep in the back of your mind........

1....Any chance the cam is timed incorrect? We've had guys mistake the markings on an advance / retard multi -keyway cam drive set

2.....We had one guy who ended up mistakenly with a reverse grind marine cam

3......Any chance the valves are open? Does it have compression?

Compression, Spark, and fuel.

Any chance the fuel is stale?

1. Im pretty sure the cam is timed correctly. But now you got me questioning it. we lined up the timing dots and the notch cam key. the half circle. im not sure what its called

2. i had a local shop send a stock cam out for a regrind so i think im ok on that.

3. it has compression.

also the gas is stale. i figured it would run not so great but i thought it would still fire.

this is kind of my feeling too, something else is going on..... and may not be related to the dizzy at all

i really hope i dont have to pull the cam out to check. this is getting a bit tiring

its so damn close to starting. it wants to start. could it be just stale gas?

 

[BillGrissom]

Try blocking off the fuel hose and spraying starter fluid down the carb throat (hold throttle open while spraying, then close). If your spark is close (say TDC to 30 deg ATDC), it should run on the starter fluid. You can keep giving it shots to keep it running. That would tell you if it is a fuel problem.

When you installed the cam, did you have the two dots closest together and on a line between the center of each sprocket? On a small block, the dots align when #6 cyl is at TDC compression. That confused me at first. Did your "timing set" have multiple keyways to choose from. If so, those can be confusing and the different dot symbols can be hard to distinguish.

 

[BIG-B-Barracuda]

Where do I get my FABO Sticker at?

 

[Bad Sport]

Where do I get my FABO Sticker at?

https://www.forabodiesonly.com/moparstore/

Or you can become a Gold Member, and PM Joey and he will send you a couple.

 

[67Dart273]

.

1. Im pretty sure the cam is timed correctly. But now you got me questioning it. we lined up the timing dots and the notch cam key. the half circle. im not sure what its called

2. i had a local shop send a stock cam out for a regrind so i think im ok on that.

3. it has compression.

also the gas is stale. i figured it would run not so great but i thought it would still fire.



i really hope i dont have to pull the cam out to check. this is getting a bit tiring

its so damn close to starting. it wants to start. could it be just stale gas?

Check the plugs for wet / fuel fouled. How "strong" is the spartk? Don't discount stupid easy to miss stuff like damaged / dirty cap / rotor or a bad coil wire.

a shot of fresh fuel down the carb throat should make it fire, unless the plugs are already fouled

You can estimate cam timing. Just look at the cam specs. One of the events is close to TDC, EG look them up in the shop manual, EG just picking random, the 318/340/360 specs out of the '72 shop manual, shows the intake valve opens at 10 /22 / 16 degress BTDC. You can EASILY check that, just pull the driver side valve cover, and crank it around. You can easily estimate 20BTC even if the balancer isn't marked, just mentally double the 10* markings

You can also set timing "on the starter." This might be a smart move.

 

[Bad Sport]

my suspicion is that i dont have the distributor oriented correctly. it's one of those HEI skipwhite dizzys off of ebay. at top dead center i had the rotor pointed at the #1 cylinder.

Line the rotor up on #1 on the cap then look at the tab that drops into the distributor gear.

Are they pointing in the same direction?

 

[BIG-B-Barracuda]

Line the rotor up on #1 on the cap then look at the tab that drops into the distributor gear.

Are they pointing in the same direction?

does anyone have photos of this?:coffee2:
i know it sounds straight forward but i have never got into timing/ distributor issues.

thanks in advance.

 

[Purple Haze]

Try blocking off the fuel hose and spraying starter fluid down the carb throat (hold throttle open while spraying, then close). If your spark is close (say TDC to 30 deg ATDC), it should run on the starter fluid. You can keep giving it shots to keep it running. That would tell you if it is a fuel problem.

^^^^ This, or u can try just turn the distributor a little advanced I know when I first fired mine it would not start with it set at tdc.

 

[Bad Sport]

Line the rotor up on #1 on the cap then look at the tab that drops into the distributor gear.

Are they pointing in the same direction?

After a little more digging, what I suspected the issue was, is what I thought.

The rotor and the spade where it drops into the distributor drive gear are clocked differently than a factory distributor.

You need to either move the distributor drive gear or the wires around the cap to make it run.

I would move the gear and keep the factory firing order on the cap correct, but either way will work.

 

[JelloB1afra]

Try blocking off the fuel hose and spraying starter fluid down the carb throat (hold throttle open while spraying, then close). If your spark is close (say TDC to 30 deg ATDC), it should run on the starter fluid. You can keep giving it shots to keep it running. That would tell you if it is a fuel problem.

When you installed the cam, did you have the two dots closest together and on a line between the center of each sprocket? On a small block, the dots align when #6 cyl is at TDC compression. That confused me at first. Did your "timing set" have multiple keyways to choose from. If so, those can be confusing and the different dot symbols can be hard to distinguish.

it was a brand new timing chain and sprocket set. if i remember correctly we lined up the 2 dots. the dot on the crank sprocket being at the top, while the dot on the cam sprocket was at the bottom of the sprocket ( -) (- ) <---like this but vertical

Check the plugs for wet / fuel fouled. How "strong" is the spartk? Don't discount stupid easy to miss stuff like damaged / dirty cap / rotor or a bad coil wire.

a shot of fresh fuel down the carb throat should make it fire, unless the plugs are already fouled

You can estimate cam timing. Just look at the cam specs. One of the events is close to TDC, EG look them up in the shop manual, EG just picking random, the 318/340/360 specs out of the '72 shop manual, shows the intake valve opens at 10 /22 / 16 degress BTDC. You can EASILY check that, just pull the driver side valve cover, and crank it around. You can easily estimate 20BTC even if the balancer isn't marked, just mentally double the 10* markings

You can also set timing "on the starter." This might be a smart move.

will definitely try that. i dont know why i didnt think of that. id rather do that than pull the cam back out

Line the rotor up on #1 on the cap then look at the tab that drops into the distributor gear.

Are they pointing in the same direction?

After a little more digging, what I suspected the issue was, is what I thought.

The rotor and the spade where it drops into the distributor drive gear are clocked differently than a factory distributor.

You need to either move the distributor drive gear or the wires around the cap to make it run.

I would move the gear and keep the factory firing order on the cap correct, but either way will work.

i will try all of these things. where should the notch in the distributor gear be pointing at tdc? ive been messing with the gear in different directions.maybe i just need to experiment some more until i find the right place.

 

[Bad Sport]

i will try all of these things. where should the notch in the distributor gear be pointing at tdc? ive been messing with the gear in different directions.maybe i just need to experiment some more until i find the right place.

With number 1 on TDC compression stroke it should be pointing at the front driver side intake bolt.

What I'm trying to explain to you, if you do that, drop that dizzy in, it won't be firing on #1, as the rotor is clocked differently in the Skip White as opposed to a factory dizzy. It simply won't run.

You need to adjust the drive gear OR move the plug wires to different posts so it will.

Put both distributors side by side and compare the relationship of the rotor to the spade on both, you should see the difference.

 

[JelloB1afra]

With number 1 on TDC compression stroke it should be pointing at the front driver side intake bolt.

What I'm trying to explain to you, if you do that, drop that dizzy in, it won't be firing on #1, as the rotor is clocked differently in the Skip White as opposed to a factory dizzy. It simply won't run.

You need to adjust the drive gear OR move the plug wires to different posts so it will.

Put both distributors side by side and compare the relationship of the rotor to the spade on both, you should see the difference.

ooohhhh. Okay i gotcha. thats what i thought. i knew the skip dizzy was a different orientation than a stock distributor. i just didnt know how it was different. i tried moving the wires before, ill try that again too

 

[replicaracer43]

And STOP trying to start it on stale gas.......please!!!!!!!!!!!!!! your mucking up your plugs and probally your carb also.

 

[67Dart273]

With number 1 on TDC compression stroke it should be pointing at the front driver side intake bolt.

What I'm trying to explain to you, if you do that, drop that dizzy in, it won't be firing on #1, as the rotor is clocked differently in the Skip White as opposed to a factory dizzy. It simply won't run.

You need to adjust the drive gear OR move the plug wires to different posts so it will.

Put both distributors side by side and compare the relationship of the rotor to the spade on both, you should see the difference.

And..........I thought I already explained that.

THROW the distributor in blindfolded.............

BRING the timing marks up "on compression" to "where you want timing" IE 10-15 BTC

PLUG the numbhawa whaone plug wire in wherever the rotor points.


The point?

Doesn't matter where the dist drive gear "is"

Doesn't matter where the distributor "points"

All that matters is..........no1 is ready to fire (compression)

timing marks are set where you want

and no1 plug wire plugged into where the rotor is.

 

[70aarcuda]

one thing to make sure of...if you have the distributor out of the engine...with two wires connected to the coil...and the key on...is it sparking....you can turn the shaft by hand and just remove the coil wire to see if you are getting a spark....

I am assuming you have the start/run wiring correct?....

I also have some pictures on my laptop at home...at work now...that shows the origination of the intermediate shaft with that distributor...where to set it to get the rotor pointed towards the front driverside bolt on the intake...can post those in morning.

 

[70aarcuda]

in picture one..the MP distributor on the left has the rotor lined up with the slot..the off shore distributor is about 90 degrees off.....the intermediate shaft needs to be moved to get the rotor back where the MP distributor is...