Torque boxes and frame connectors. When are they required?

-
sbh126

sbh126

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2009
Messages
353
Reaction score
28
Location
Okinawa, Japan
Well, the title pretty much sums it up. I'm about to drop in my 500 HP (Hopefully) 440 and I hadn't thought about beefing up the frame. When is it required? If I get frame connectors do I still need torque boxes? Who makes a decent set of these. Preferably a bolt in set. I'd also rather not cut the floor.
Also I was running the slant 6 driveshaft with my mild 318. Is it ok to keep using this as long as I get a loop for it? Brewers has the U joints to make it work. I'm just not sure if it will hold up. Any advise is greatly appreciated.
 
For that kind of power I would recommend both the torque boxes and subframe ties. There are a lot of threads here with that information and photos, just use the search feature to find them. I'm far from an expert on driveshafts but if a v-8 one is heavier duty I would find one. The u-joints are usually bigger too. Brewers is a great place and they know their stuff. Good luck. toolmanmike
 
Wouldn't that drive shaft length be wrong anyway ? If you'll need to have on shortened you may as well buy a heavy duty shaft to work with.
And as for unibody strength... many performance models and every vert came from factory with torque boxes.
I haven't seen bolt in torque boxes. The bolt in subframe connectors stretch the bolt holes over time.
There are torque boxes and connectors that don't require cutting the floor. All welded in. U. S. Cartool is one.
 
sbh126 said:
Well, the title pretty much sums it up. I'm about to drop in my 500 HP (Hopefully) 440 and I hadn't thought about beefing up the frame. When is it required? If I get frame connectors do I still need torque boxes? Who makes a decent set of these. Preferably a bolt in set. I'd also rather not cut the floor.
Also I was running the slant 6 driveshaft with my mild 318. Is it ok to keep using this as long as I get a loop for it? Brewers has the U joints to make it work. I'm just not sure if it will hold up. Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

All factory big blocks had torque boxes, that will tell you something. Had my 67 fixed up with Auto Rust Technicians welded torque boxes and frame connectors. I did not have to cut the floor. Big block cars used the large universal joint. I'd go that route and get it ballanced by someone who really knows what they are doing.
 
Hey 126. Your smart enough to ask good questions because you obviously care and want to do it right. Here's some info for ya. Torque boxes and frome connectors are not necessary BUT, if your intent is to put the power you say you have to the ground and not tear up the car by major flexing issues then YES it is necessary. I fabricate all of mine here in the shop. Anyone with a brain and tools can do it. Ya cant be lazy and impatient but you dont strike me as being that type so that's not an issue. I build mine and you dont need to cut the floor. Mine are the weld in type. I've got a B body on the rotissire in the next room and i'll try and get you a pic. On the drive shaft and u joint issue. Here again to do it right with that kind of HP so you dont have to wonder if it's gona hold up this is what i did and i continue to do. I replace all u joints with the 1350 style, front and rear then have a drive shaft built to fill the bill. No question whether or not it will hold up. Done deal. Did i mention the Eaton Tru Trak gear drive sure grip 3.91 in the 8.75 rear? You may also want to invest in areal set of aftermarket axles.
Small Block
 

Attachments

  • Frame connectors 001.jpg
    61.9 KB · Views: 907
  • Frame connectors 002.jpg
    81.3 KB · Views: 939
  • Frame connectors 003.jpg
    67.6 KB · Views: 973
  • Frame connectors 004.jpg
    51.2 KB · Views: 935
  • Frame connectors 005.jpg
    53.5 KB · Views: 957
Small Block said:
Hey 126. Your smart enough to ask good questions because you obviously care and want to do it right. Here's some info for ya. Torque boxes and frome connectors are not necessary BUT, if your intent is to put the power you say you have to the ground and not tear up the car by major flexing issues then YES it is necessary. I fabricate all of mine here in the shop. Anyone with a brain and tools can do it. Ya cant be lazy and impatient but you dont strike me as being that type so that's not an issue. I build mine and you dont need to cut the floor. Mine are the weld in type. I've got a B body on the rotissire in the next room and i'll try and get you a pic. On the drive shaft and u joint issue. Here again to do it right with that kind of HP so you dont have to wonder if it's gona hold up this is what i did and i continue to do. I replace all u joints with the 1350 style, front and rear then have a drive shaft built to fill the bill. No question whether or not it will hold up. Done deal. Did i mention the Eaton Tru Trak gear drive sure grip 3.91 in the 8.75 rear? You may also want to invest in areal set of aftermarket axles.
Small Block
Click to expand...
Very nice work, Small Block! And great advise also!!!
 
If you were to choose between one or the other, boxes or connectors, do the connectors.

Running stock leaf spring location? The rear boxes will help stiffen the area. With a relocation kit, the rear boxes aren't worth the effort. The front boxes with connectors are not worth the effort, IMO.

The boxes do stiffen the unibody, not to the extent a pair of connector will.

On a car with 500HP, do the frame connectors.
 
Boxes were meant to tie the rails into the rockers to help stiffen things. If you are adding connectors, you don't need boxes at all.
 
At a minimum you need the connectors (unless you like a twisted body). In fact subframe connectors, will make any (even a slant 6) a-body a better car.
 
66fs said:
All factory big blocks had torque boxes........
Click to expand...

That's what Galen Govier said too, but I have a friend in Warner Robins, Georgia that made him eat his words. Barry Jones has an original 1966 Hemi Charger with NO torque boxes. One of Galen's collegues has even seen and verified the car as original....but we all knew that anyway. The car has been very well documented and has been well known around this area for a long time. Barry bought it off the same dealership in 1970 that sold it new after the original owner traded the car for something more economical. The car has actually been featured in a couple of magazines. He now has a 528 cube Hemi in the car with the original drivetrain in his shop. Did it need torque boxes? Yeah I would guess so, but it never had them. I'm sure it's not the only one.
 
Not all big block A-bodies had torque boxes. My 69 383-S of which I have the broadcast sheet, window sticker, fender tag, movie of the car when new, and have spoke to the original owner does not have torque boxes front or rear.
Rod
 
crackedback said:
If you were to choose between one or the other, boxes or connectors, do the connectors.

Running stock leaf spring location? The rear boxes will help stiffen the area. With a relocation kit, the rear boxes aren't worth the effort. The front boxes with connectors are not worth the effort, IMO.

The boxes do stiffen the unibody, not to the extent a pair of connector will.

On a car with 500HP, do the frame connectors.
Click to expand...


Stock leaf spring location. So If I'm getting the connectors there is no point in getting the front boxes. But since I have stock leaf location I could benifit from a set of rear boxes? Or are the frame connectors all I need? I found a set of Hotchkiss frame connectors for $250. No cutting. I'll have to have them welded up when I get my exhaust done or something.
 
connectors will help even a stock car feel tighter. my lazy *** still hasn't gotten around to putting connectors on my car yet though..lol
 
sbh126 said:
Stock leaf spring location. So If I'm getting the connectors there is no point in getting the front boxes. But since I have stock leaf location I could benifit from a set of rear boxes? Or are the frame connectors all I need? I found a set of Hotchkiss frame connectors for $250. No cutting. I'll have to have them welded up when I get my exhaust done or something.
Click to expand...

$250 for frame connectors... yikes!!! There are decent connectors for half that price. Or build your own for under $50.

The boxes will help the area just in front of the spring hanger stay more rigid. Connectors will show a bigger benefit than the boxes. The box will stiffen the area that the hanger mounts to as well.

I don't generally put boxes on cars that I'm installing connectors.
 
I made my own frame connectors,was very cheap.$250 is crazy,when you can spend 1/5 of that making your own.My 73 Dart Sport 340,4 speed has torque boxes from the factory and I also added the f.connectors for added strength.I was racing with it,but not anymore.
 
I can tell you this; before I put the sub frame connectors in if I jacked either the front or back of the car up I could not open the door or if it was open it would miss the stricker by 1/2". After the connectors I can open and close the door without issue. Also, after the connectors the number of rattles and sqeaks was greatly reduced.

IMHO, all of these cars regardless of motor or intended use need frame connectors.
 
You just gotta beautiful little car Dave....quit yer braggin. LOL
 
rklein383 said:
Not all big block A-bodies had torque boxes. My 69 383-S of which I have the broadcast sheet, window sticker, fender tag, movie of the car when new, and have spoke to the original owner does not have torque boxes front or rear.
Rod
Click to expand...


Just like yourself, One of the 5 dodge demon 340"s I own that is original and never been wrecked or repaired in any way, Built at the Hamtramck plant was built with NO torque box stiffner plates front and rear.
It is a 4 speed car to boot !!!
I have heard of other cars that also where high performance mopars that where also known to have Never Been damaged, Nor repaired that did not get them for some reason.
Yet, the other 4 demon 340's we own all have them front and rear! (two 4 speeds, two auto 's)
We have left it alone so far, But I am looking at buying some and adding them for piece of mind.
My other muscle mopars have them though....
It must have been quiting time when they built the car!

Grant Eaton
1155 6th St, Orange City, FL 32763
 
A little while ago I went to lift my 76 up on a hoist and did not know it had a broken weld at the cowell upper inner fender right by master cylinder. As I started to lift I watched the gap between the door and fender open up to an inch. That is when I figured the it needs frame connectors. I got 5 pieces of 2x2 1/8 wall tubing for $25 last week
 
Does anybody have a good shot of the torque box's?
 
StrokerScamp said:
These are the best connectors you can buy. Look how they follow every contour of the floor pan. They are like 169 bucks.

http://www.uscartool.com/Aframeconn/index.html
Click to expand...


Agreed, I have known John for years and finally became a paying customer a few weeks ago for...wait for it...frame connectors and torque boxes. Got all 6 pieces for $389. The connectors are laser cut to form fit against the floor specific to your car. Stronger than any full frame chassis design to come out of Detroit. The torque boxes are OEM in appearance but are a full gauge thicker than factory. You won't find anything better.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top