360 crank in a 318 block

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smokindust said:
I guess maybe that's part of the problem. And I'm not saying 318s are bad engines, just
Not worth it from a performance standpoint.
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so i guess a 327,an a 302 ant worth the effort ether,..i guess every body thats hoped up a 6 cylinder or a 4 cylinder wasted there time an money as well,..by your way of thinking every body should be building 426 hemis or stroking a 440 or we just wasting our time an money....get so sick of these opinions that any thing less is a waste of effort...discrimination against the lil man an his lil motors an NOT in the spirit of hod rodding!!
 
smokindust said:
Find a 360. I don't care what you do to a 318 you will be disappointed after you waste all that money on it. They were never. Made to be a performance engine. Sorry if I ruffled anybody's feathers.
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In my mind a motor with 3.31 stroke is more "rev willing" (dont know the word for that but I hope you get what I mean) than a 3.58 or 4.0 stroke.
 
You know what cu does to people... :glasses7: well 'm back to my plan again 3.31 is the way I'm going
 
My little 318 put down 235hp to the tires with 20 degrees timing and 2 blown head gaskets. I think the 318 is very capable in an a body platform.
 
I have a set of new cast hyper pistons that are 3.940" (.030" over 318 ) that sit really low in the cylinder. They are flat tops and sit .154" below deck height with a 3.310" stock 318 stroke.

It would drop the initial static down to somewhere in the 7's on a 'teen. Good for boosting or something like this, where you are gaining it on the stroke. txstang84 actually figured that these pistons would put the deck height at .019 from zero with a 360 crank. With some milling, you could get it closer to zero. If you ran the Mr.Gasket #1121G's, you would have a quench of .047" without milling on a closed chamber head. Tighter with .010" shaved from the block.

I'd let those pistons go cheap. They could take some valve notching, no prob and work with this crank idea, if you wanted to pay someone to turn the crank and buff it. Hughes Engines rents out a valve notching tool that fixes itself on the engine and can even be used in the car, for a DIY deal, if you wanted to run a tall cam and advance.

I'm half tempted to try this, myself, on another car that I have, that I want to keep #'s matching, if I don't let these pistons go.
 
Dave, if I recall correctly, you purchased those pistons for a little bit of nothing, if you had some spare parts floating around, have access to relatively inexpensive machine work, and a desire to do it just for grins, it would be kinda cool to see how it would work out.

There was another thread about a year or so ago where one of the members mentioned using 6" Chevy rods, and .060" over 283 pistons after turning down the crank to match the block and the rods, and it would put the pistons like .005" in the hole. He also said the parts are "...as cheap as dog food" which wasn't much of an exaggeration. I found a set of 6" used SCAT rods for $125 (3/8" ARP cap screws) and several different types of pistons for good prices.

It was an interesting prospect.
 
I did the 360 crank in the 318 thing once. The car I was building wasn't legally allowed a 360 but I could use a 318 so I sonic tested a 318 truck core and found it had thick enough walls to go 4in bore, and we cut down the 360 mains to fit and it worked fine.
 
txstang84 said:
Dave, if I recall correctly, you purchased those pistons for a little bit of nothing, if you had some spare parts floating around, have access to relatively inexpensive machine work, and a desire to do it just for grins, it would be kinda cool to see how it would work out.

There was another thread about a year or so ago where one of the members mentioned using 6" Chevy rods, and .060" over 283 pistons after turning down the crank to match the block and the rods, and it would put the pistons like .005" in the hole. He also said the parts are "...as cheap as dog food" which wasn't much of an exaggeration. I found a set of 6" used SCAT rods for $125 (3/8" ARP cap screws) and several different types of pistons for good prices.

It was an interesting prospect.
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you can buy a 3.58 stroke from scat for a 318/340 main bearing...and use stock rods ....

and be money ahead due to not paying for a bunch of machine work for one of a kind engine...
 
70aarcuda said:
you can buy a 3.58 stroke from scat for a 318/340 main bearing...and use stock rods ....

and be money ahead due to not paying for a bunch of machine work for one of a kind engine...
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that crank is 375 bucks from summit!! then bore'in block an any deck'in be the only machine work to it,..but finding good pistons becomes a issue im like'in the K-1 technology 3.78 cranks,..forged! good crank..699 bucks,not sure what ci would be with this one tho'... an for the 318 lover that wants to reach for it all,.. summit has the cast scat 4.00 cranks for 405 bucks....reaching for 390ci....
 
WestRidge said:
In my mind a motor with 3.31 stroke is more "rev willing" (dont know the word for that but I hope you get what I mean) than a 3.58 or 4. All I'm saying is if your looking to do a performance build on a 318 your better off with the 360 as parts are plentiful and you'll get way more bang for your buck. What heads are you planning on using?
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generally a short stroke will rev quicker than a long stroke engine and the longer stroke produces more torque.I have read where 10 second 408 stroker smallblocks actually et better with 3.91 rear gears as opposed to 410 but have no first hand experience.
..a friend has a 396 camaro and a 408 dart,with very similar cams and gears.Heads up the Dart pulls away from the camaro but from about 80 up he says the camaro walks away easily.
 
I think the best thing you could do with a 354 (.030" teen 3.58 stroke) would be a street motor.

RV/ Tow package deal, high ramp, high lift, mild duration, maybe a little, with good idle, LD340 intake and some 340 X heads or some 360 magnum heads with 1.80 valves.

That engine would chirp.

I'm still very tempted to do this to the #s block on the '72 Dart, just for the casting and stamping, screwing with folks heads at shows.
 
smokindust said:
Find a 360. I don't care what you do to a 318 you will be disappointed after you waste all that money on it. They were never. Made to be a performance engine. Sorry if I ruffled anybody's feathers.
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I guess the 290 hp, that my MILDLY built 318, puts to the ground is a turd. 8.86 to 1 compression, cam 210/[email protected]. 3800 lb race weight and ran a 13.27.
 
smokindust said:
WestRidge said:
In my mind a motor with 3.31 stroke is more "rev willing" (dont know the word for that but I hope you get what I mean) than a 3.58 or 4. All I'm saying is if your looking to do a performance build on a 318 your better off with the 360 as parts are plentiful and you'll get way more bang for your buck. What heads are you planning on using?
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My plan is to use KB167 +0.060, 318/340 crank 3.31, ported 974 heads w 2.02, 1.60 and milled to 60cc valves Lunati Woodo 268/276 cam, offenhauser 360 w Holly 600. Am I on track with such set up or off side what do you say?
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West - I think you're fine there. A 318 is a 340 once you put compression and heads/ports on them you will never notice the difference.
 
WestRidge said:
smokindust said:
My plan is to use KB167 +0.060, 318/340 crank 3.31, ported 974 heads w 2.02, 1.60 and milled to 60cc valves Lunati Woodo 268/276 cam, offenhauser 360 w Holly 600. Am I on track with such set up or off side what do you say?
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I say if you already have your heart set on it and have most of the parts then build it and see your happy with it. have the block checked before you go .060 over. balance the rotating assy. if you don't have any parts then I would look for a 360. and put the same effort into it as the 318. good luck.
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70aarcuda said:
I think he was comparing a 327 chevy and a 302 z28 chevy.....
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ok well, same story, they built the 302 so they can go trans am racing. I think the factory(underated)HP was 290. those motors had all good stuff in them from the factory. they put a cross ram intake and headers in the trunk when you got the DZ 302 option.
 
70aarcuda said:
you can buy a 3.58 stroke from scat for a 318/340 main bearing...and use stock rods ....

and be money ahead due to not paying for a bunch of machine work for one of a kind engine...
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I honestly didn't know that-if it was mentioned elsewhere, I read right past it--doh! Thanks for the heads up!
 
smokindust said:
a 327 chevy was a performance engine from the start!
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Well that's a blanket statement that is "not always true." LOTS of 327's were factory built for trucks and with non "camel hump" heads (AKA power pack) for less than "Corvette" performance. I don't remember what the lowest rated 327 was, 250? (EDIT wiki says 210 hp)

And 302s were no big deal, either. Hell we used to bore 283's and call them 301s!!!!!

But if you have a 283 (302) or a "truck" 327, you basically are up against the same costs as building a 318 in some ways..........you get to garbage can the heads and pistons.
 
I have an old school stroker crank: 360 crank turned to 318 mains. Sitting in my shed. Did the blueprint math (lots of fudging out there) and the 318 ".055 in the hole" stockers (or more!) looked like they would be only +.080 out of the hole, add a .054 Fel pro gasket ad you get .03 over that. Top that with a large chamber 360 head and yo got yourself a good compression stroker with no piston work. Just balance it. Too bad it has a chipped flange (thanks FedEx!) but it would make a good mock up tool or a driver if you can weld cast iron.
 
WestRidge said:
smokindust said:
My plan is to use KB167 +0.060, 318/340 crank 3.31, ported 974 heads w 2.02, 1.60 and milled to 60cc valves Lunati Woodo 268/276 cam, offenhauser 360 w Holly 600. Am I on track with such set up or off side what do you say?
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If you are going with the 2.02 valves, ditch the 360 and go with either an LD4B or a Weiand Stealth, depending on what you are doing with the runners.

If you are leaving them alone like I did, go with the LD4B and the correct Fel-Pro gaskets to match them up, after you have checked and centered your intake.

If you are going to move metal in the runners, go with the Weiand Stealth. It's the same layout as the LD4B, but it has slightly larger runners that are a touch longer. Sort of a midway, between the LD4B and LD340, like the new Edelbrock performer, but with a better layout and better casting quality.

If you buy a new Edelbrock, check it with a gasket for core shift. There have been a lot of complaints recently with front and rear runner spacing changes between runs.

The 600 Holley double pumper would be a good way to go.
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Hello I'm now not so long from putting the build in my car. I have a question about spark plugs and my setup. What spark plugs do you guys suggest that will suit my setup and MSD 6AL ignition? Is "original" AC Delco R44XLS just fine?

View attachment 20140409_215731.jpg
 
If they're readily available, I'd used them...or Autolite AP65s...with about an .045" gap.
 
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