360 stroker build

[abodyhotrod]

came to parking my green machine and need some help for the best stroker combo for her.(still drive a 72dart)

the plans are a 10 to 11 second car at least 500hp all forged internals for future nos hits.(i'm really tired of 13's)but want 11's and low 12's w/o nos.

i ve come to thinking 4in crank, 10.5 compression, port my eddies to about 290 or more and big *** .650 roller cam with existing 4200 stall 727 moser60 4:11. 1 7/8 tti's w/3in x pipes

but really what do you guys think will get the job done.

what cam will be best for nos and w/o/

what pistons should i pick?

scat or eagle or callies crank?

what should my heads flow to support 500hp+?

should i use a windage tray? (drag race car only)

what main caps should i use?

anybody recommend 301 pontiac rings?(less friction)

my 3500$ needs your two cents. guys i have drove nothing but a dart for the past 6 years since i was 19, and its time to step it up.

 

[3404spdvaliant]

What should your heads flow to support 500hp?=244cfm minimum.
What would I like to see your edelbrokes [realistically] flowing?=285cfm
Stud the 360 or 340 with stock caps[they will be fine].
Scat or callies, only use eagle's forged cranks not cast steel. jmo
Ross pistons, h-beam rods, 278*dur 104-106cl .580 lift should get you there. Never use pontiac anything!

 

[AdamR]

Callies makes a real nice crank but not for the 360 main. They are all 340 main size.

K1 is said to be nice. I hear Scatt has the best piece out of the box but no matter what you get they will need to be check and likely corrected.

Us the stock caps with ARP studs.

I would look in to some aftermarket rods, The Scatt I beams are stronger then the eagle esps, I would probably go with a H beam myself.

A nice light piston, Watch your compression though. With the 4" crank it get high without a dish. With your Eddys I would try for 10.5:1

You wont need a .650" roller cam. A flat tappet solid around 260-265 @.050" will make enough power.

Use a good single plane intake like an M1 and a Holley 950hp.

 

[drjay0]

Adams recommendations put you at 11.50's on the motor in my opinion

 

[rumblefish360]

I've come to thinking 4in crank, 10.5 compression, port my eddies to about 290 or more and big *** .650 roller cam with existing 4200 stall 727 moser60 4:11. 1 7/8 tti's w/3in x pipes

Nice idea on a build. Overkill, but for surely fun.

what cam will be best for nos and w/o/

Being that you want to shoot for 11's N/a and then add the juice, you could do very well with a custom ground cam. Comp, Huges, Crane, Lunati all offer this service providing you give every detail of the car. Every detail.

what pistons should i pick?

Like Adam siad, a dished piston will push the PSI up real fast never mind a flat top. Adam said you could do with 10.5-1. With the aluminum heads, you can go to 11-1 on pump gas but, I'm not sure how the N02 will effect that.

should i use a windage tray? (drag race car only)

Run a drag race pan that is deep and theres no need for a tray.

what main caps should i use?

Stock and studded

anybody recommend 301 pontiac rings?(less friction)

Those Poncho rings are thin rings. The rings needed for the piston will be giving on piston choice made.

 

[340sFastback]

A lot of people have had good luck with Scat cranks but I am not one of them. The first crank I got had a flaw in one of the rod journals. Sent it back to Scat. They dragged their feet but eventually agreed to send another crank. 8 weeks later, yes 8 weeks, I finally get another crank. The second crank had .002" run out on the #3 main and the #4 and #5 main journals are .001" bigger then the first three. So instead of bothering with Scat again I just had it turned 10/10 to put an end to it.

If you plan to hit it with N02 I think you should go forged. I'd buy the K-1 crank if I were to do it again. I'd also go roller cam if you can afford it so you don't have to deal with flat tappet lobe wiping issue.

 

[moper]

but really what do you guys think will get the job done.
This build is similar to a buddy's. He just went 10.53 on 200shot, runs mid 11s N/A with a stick in a duster and 4.10s.

what cam will be best for nos and w/o/
The cam is crutial if you build to run NOS. but, if you are simply looking to goa little faster on the bottle, don't build for it. Just build to hold it in and use when you need it. Your goals can be accomplished naturally aspirated on pump gas pretty easilly. A solid roller (bushed lifter bores) in the 290°@.050, and lift in the .680 range will more than do it.

what pistons should i pick?
Using the Edelbrock RPMs, I would use a Diamond flat top. No need for a dish IMO. You will want your static compression to be at least 11.5:1 with quench set at .030

scat or eagle or callies crank?
If the budget allows, always go the best. The cast units will be at or beyond their safe limit with NOS added. Go Callies and dont worry. And I would run Eagle H beams. No cheapie rods.

what should my heads flow to support 500hp+?
You will need at least 260cfm. RPMs with the standard "stage 2" work can flow this when doen by the right shop. You can get more from them, but you basically NEED 260.

should i use a windage tray? (drag race car only)
There are several opinions. IMO, it's more up to the oil pan design. A deep drag racing pan, no. Anything else, yes. I would go Milodon street pan and windage tray, and add a scraper too.

what main caps should i use?
You want something that wont distort, but wont weaken the factory webbing. I use 2bolt ProGramm caps for my builds. On all but #5. 4 bolts end up weakening the main webbing and are more $$ to install for no gain.

anybody recommend 301 pontiac rings?(less friction)
Not sure where application comes from. The new pistons use the thinner 1/16 rings, and you dont want too much thinner with the squeeze. Heat and detonation kill thin rings quick. You want to make darn sure the place honing it can get teh right very smooth finish for moly tho.

my 3500$ needs your two cents. guys i have drove nothing but a dart for the past 6 years since i was 19, and its time to step it up.

I dont think $3500 will cover what you want. That will get you the block work, and the lifters...

 

[crackedback]

You could get there pretty easy with a stock stroke 360.

Good heads 260+ at .550 and a solid cam in the 250-255 @ .050 with .550-.575 range in lift will get you there. I'd get a cam with a split duration +6-8 on the exhaust.

Air Gap, 850-950 and at least 10:1 compression.

Work on the suspension to get it to hook. It's fun to watch 500hp and less SB's eating up 550+ hp BB's at the track.

 

[lenweiler]

I dont think $3500 will cover what you want. That will get you the block work, and the lifters...

Agreed.........

 

[abodyhotrod]

thanks guys i just checked with the machine shop today and will start here very shortly i really think 3500 is doable but then there is my trans work i will have done another 500 but all sounds very good guys thanks for the help.

 

[3404spdvaliant]

Thats some expensive machine work.
I paid $595 to have the block cleaned , checked, squared, bore & hone w/plate, line hone mains, ARP studs for all mains and cleaned which I will do again anyways.
The stroker kit cost me $1,300 out the door internally balanced.

 

[Haney]

The stroker kit cost me $1,300 out the door internally balanced.

Where did you buy your kit and what was in it? That is a great price!

 

[moper]

Thats some expensive machine work.
I paid $595 to have the block cleaned , checked, squared, bore & hone w/plate, line hone mains, ARP studs for all mains and cleaned which I will do again anyways.
The stroker kit cost me $1,300 out the door internally balanced.

Yes it is. And I'll wager it's a far cry better than cheaper work. I can tell the differences, both visually and by measurement. What type of machine did the square decking for you?

 

[3404spdvaliant]

MOPER,Peterson mill indexed off the mains, Is that good enough for u?
If not. IDRC

 

[3404spdvaliant]

HANEY, I bought it from Ohio Crankshaft 8 months ago when they were advertising it for $950 unbalanced w/o shipping.
The kit includes stock length h beams bushed 'floating pins', clevite narrow rod bearings [for radius journal] speed pro mains that I had to narrow, nodular crank, KB hypers dish w/pop up for open chamber heads=9.7-10.1 depending on cc, with speed pro moly rings.
It took 1 month to get the kit at my door.

 

[moper]

340, which Petersen? For my engines (and customers'), no, it's not good enough. That's decking it. Not square decking. Mine are machined on a Rottler F68A CNC machining center. The old mills can cut reasonably, but they can't get the accuracy, repeatability, or the right finish for modern MLS gaskets (like Cometics). The CNC centers (many other makes too) use the cam and crank centerlines, and the heads are exactly perpendicular to those. Tolerances can be maintained to =/- .0001" (one ten-thousanth). The cutting head surfaces the deck with less than .0005"(1/2 of a thousanth) depth difference accross the whole surface. The older style millers are closer to .003" low between the cylinders (center of the cut) right where the gasket is most stressed and needs the support. Square decking means the decks are cut to be perfectly parallel with the cam and crank centerlines. Millers cannot do this due to the design of the cutter wheel, and the single point of reference in the main bores. The right equipment makes a lot ore power, and better economy, and longer life, even using stock parts. You do get what you pay for, if you know what's important and why.

 

[3404spdvaliant]

Man how did those guy's run 9's-10's in the sixties??????

That means that any of us wanting to machine a knarly street motor at your shop should have to spend what the racing teams spend 7-$10,000-50,000???
Say how much to do a set of 318 heads $2000? lol
Are you done?

 

[crackedback]

Another joyful, pleasant day at FABO. uke:

 

[BrianT]

New guy trying to argue engines with Moper. This could get interesting.

:argue:

 

[needsaresto]

Man how did those guy's run 9's-10's in the sixties??????

That means that any of us wanting to machine a knarly street motor at your shop should have to spend what the racing teams spend 7-$10,000-50,000???
Say how much to do a set of 318 heads $2000? lol
Are you done?

Hmmm. And how is it that factory motors survived so long without this magincal/expensive machine work? No doubt you do great work Moper,but there's thousands of motors out there that run just fine and last without real fancy machining. Somwhere in between a shadetree honeout and a million dollar rebuild is fine with me...

Sorry. I just think our hobby doesnt need to cost a second mortgage.