65 Barracuda... Got BAD News...

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BillaCuda

BillaCuda

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So my compression test failed today. I have the original 273 in there and I am at a crossroad. If I am ever going to swap the engine out and go with something different, now is the time. Please, let me know what you would do. Assuming you were working on a budget. Would you rebuild the 273 or go with something different? I would like to be able to take trips with her.

What kind of pricing do you think I'm facing. I have heard a lot about a swap for a 318. Would I be able to link up to the original tranny with no problem?

Whats a reasonable budget to go in with?

Thanks for help in advance

Bill
 

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failed? isn't the 273 a solid lifter motor? adjust the valves & see if that changes the compression.
post your numbers up--- there are a lot of knowledgeable people on here---- As for swapping motors---
make a plan for this ride-- then proceed accordingly.
Good Luck, Lawrence
 
Good idea... Thanks VDART... Looks like I know what I'm doing this weekend
 
Just for thought... Would the 318 bolt up? What would be a good engine to swap out with for minimal $$$ damage?
 
A 318 will go right in I have a 65 cuda with a 66 318 in it 904a trans push button in the dash. Seriously, check the valve train out first, if it wuz me I'd keep the comando in it if at all possible, if you swap out try to get a 68 or older block, the newer ones are LA blocks and are stroked a bit different the head deck angles are different as well. I had a 69 la block in mine first and sold it, just doesn't perform as well. 273 parts are still fairly easy to get you might have to snoop around a bit. AND KEEP THAT 273, there are folks that would love to have it (me included :^O)
 
if it is a compression issue find yourself a 318 and drop that baby in. cheap and easy and 318's are great engines
 
Dcudaboy said:
A 318 will go right in I have a 65 cuda with a 66 318 in it 904a trans push button in the dash. Seriously, check the valve train out first, if it wuz me I'd keep the comando in it if at all possible, if you swap out try to get a 68 or older block, the newer ones are LA blocks and are stroked a bit different the head deck angles are different as well. I had a 69 la block in mine first and sold it, just doesn't perform as well. 273 parts are still fairly easy to get you might have to snoop around a bit. AND KEEP THAT 273, there are folks that would love to have it (me included :^O)
Click to expand...

It's not the 273 Commando... Just the 273 V8... Would you recommend a rebuild of the 273 or go with the 318 and a few modifications to keep in about the same economy?

Thanks for the help
 
Let's start with the basics.

A compression test is not "Pass / Fail" - unless you are selling a new engine to your wife.

A compression test will be a series of test pressures from each cylinder. If you have one cylinder that is 10% or more below the others, you may have a real problem - or simply a badly adjusted valve or carbon issue.

What were the compression test numbers? Remember that the 273 2v was a low compression engine to begin with. Post the test results.

If you bought the car recently, and have not driven it a lot I would adjust the valves, and do the seafoam treatment to get rid of some carbon. Drive it. Does it smoke? Burn oil?

As for swaps, almost any LA engine is possible, but the exhaust will be tough with the bigger engines. A 318 will work ok with the OEM 273 driver's side exhaust manifold.

B.
 
I have the same question.....how did the compression fail? Rings? Valves? If it doesn't smoke or use oil, I'd just do a valve job if money is tight. If it's a high miler/smoker, plugging in another good used 273 or 318 is the next cheapest route. A 318 or '68-9 273 will need a bushing for the crank to center your '65 torque converter. Everything else should bolt on if you use a '74 and older engine. Newer than that, you may have to modify smog provisions in heads and manifolds. You'd have to call around your area to get rebuilding costs from machine shops and parts suppiers. A lot will depend on how much of the work you'll be doing yourself.
 
Before you go through the trouble and expense of changing engines, there are a few things you need to determine:
1. Which cylinder, or how many, have either zero or very low compression?
2. What are the compression readings on the low cylinders?
3. What are the compression readings on the good cylinders?
4. Was the car running before all this happened, or has it been sitting a good
while?
5. Would you really, really like to put a 318 engine in it, and the low
compression readings give you a good excuse to do it? (I've used this
one!)

If you have a cylinder at "zero", it may be nothing more than a bad cylinder head gasket or a really burned/cracked valve. A piston with a hole in it will do it, but that doesn't happen a lot on low compression engines like the basic 273. A stuck ring is another possibility that careful analysis of each cylinder can determine as necessary. (does the engine smoke..a lot? )
If you've got a good, older model 318 laying around that you know is good to go as a bolt-in, go for it. If you have to rebuild either a 318 or the 273, the parts cost won't be much different...it's the machine work that will hit you hardest in the wallet, so which one needs the most machining?
If you want to keep it original, then fixing the 273 is the only option.
All these decisions...don't you just love old Mopars? Good luck on your motor.
 
cudamark said:
I have the same question.....how did the compression fail? Rings? Valves? If it doesn't smoke or use oil, I'd just do a valve job if money is tight. If it's a high miler/smoker, plugging in another good used 273 or 318 is the next cheapest route. A 318 or '68-9 273 will need a bushing for the crank to center your '65 torque converter. Everything else should bolt on if you use a '74 and older engine. Newer than that, you may have to modify smog provisions in heads and manifolds. You'd have to call around your area to get rebuilding costs from machine shops and parts suppiers. A lot will depend on how much of the work you'll be doing yourself.
Click to expand...

Let me first start by thanking everyone for all of the help. I am a Novice swimming in a big "fish" tank...

She is definitely a high miler/smoker. Pouring out from everywhere. I am new to Mopars and bought this car because I saw it and the ad said buy or it will be parted. I had to save her. With that being said, the dilemma I am running into is what direction to take. Would the 318 be better? Should I rebuild the 273? Problem I have is that the 318 sounds like a bit more could be done with it in the future if I wanted to modify. Either way, I feel that the "excuse" is real and the dilemma is going to be which route would be better in the long run, more economical and cost effective.

How much does just a basic engine 273 or 318 run when finished? This would be rebuilding the 273 or buying a 318 and rebuilding.

Thanks again everyone.

Bill
 
Well if it is smoking blue out the tailpipe, maybe.

Please post the compression test numbers. It could still be a bad valve seals, stuck rings, etc. making it smoke. What color is the smoke?

If an engine replacement is in order, then the 318 will give you added displacement, and torque. A decent running 318 can be located & swapped in without rebuilding it - that engine was used for a very long time.

Thanks for saving the old fish. I hate to see a cancer free one go to the crusher.

B.
 
If it's a smoker, it's rebuild or replace time. As you suspect, a 318 has a little more up side in the future if you want to add horsepower. The difference in cost will be the cost of a rebuildable 318 (shouldn't be more than $200) and piston/ring costs which are higher in a 273 so you'll recoupe a little by doing the 318. All things being equal, the 273 will get a bit better gas mileage....maybe 1-2 MPG. The other nice thing about the 318 is it will have many more intake manifold options. The '64-5 273's have unique intakes and heads.
 
It's smoking form under the hood if that means anything... Looks like its coming from the valve covers
 
New valve covers are cheap. Valve seals are almost as cheap but take about 2 hours to put on and a special tool, along with a pretty good mechanical aptitude. A 318 short block is cheap too and will bolt in with all your 273 gear. YOu can even use your original crank if the convertor snout on the 318 is the newer size. The balance on a 273 is the same as a 318, neutral as the pistons weigh the same and use the same rod. I did a 318 short block on my spun bearing 273 4bbl and put in a Herbert stage 2 cam in there and the 318 was faster by a country mile and still idled like a stocker. 340/360's are big and powerful but exhaust is a challenge as you dont want to use the original 273 logs on the larger motors, youll cheat yourself a few HP. Do the gaskets first, then a seafoam treatment or the cheaper "dribble a water hose in the carb at a high idle and watch the crap fly out the tailpipe" method.
 
Still working on getting the numbers, but I'm leaning more towards an engine rebuild. The Cuda has 183,000 miles on its original engine. When I bought it I asked the guy if it had been rebuilt and he said he wasn't sure. Seemed to run fine and the speedo was broke. Found out it hasn't been... So it's 183,000 on the original 273 V8 2bbl.

Thoughts? Any idea on price that I might be looking at?

Thanks again for all the help
 
There's no reason to go to the time and expense of rebuilding your 273, just get the car running. My suggestion is to try and find a good running 318 (craigslist?) as it's a direct bolt-in, shouldn't be more than $250, maybe find someone parting out a car and you could check out the engine before it is pulled. Most of the work/cost would be removing original engine and installing the 318, I don't think it's easy work for a novice as these engines are a tight fit in these cars.

You could also sell some parts from your 273 such as valvetrain (since it is a solid lifter engine), the accessory drive pulleys and maybe other things to offset your expenses.
 
What shape is the rest of the car like...????? Pics would be cool and if it's good shape and you plan on restoring or even just a nice driver I would rebuild the original 273....JM.02

Rickster
 
Here are some pics
 

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Boy that's a NICE lookin' little car!! I'm pretty much with everybody else-find yourself a decent running 318. You should be able to pick one up for 3-400

I'm putting an "interim" 360 and 727 in my old 67 Dart. I bought a 77 Dodge van for 350 and junked it out

One caveat --I'm not sure of. Didn't the older engines have a smaller torque converter nose? Not sure what year they changed that.
 
With the car being in that nice of shape,I,d rebuild the 273 and keep it #,s matching for re-sale value.JMO.
 
67Dart273 said:
Boy that's a NICE lookin' little car!! I'm pretty much with everybody else-find yourself a decent running 318. You should be able to pick one up for 3-400

I'm putting an "interim" 360 and 727 in my old 67 Dart. I bought a 77 Dodge van for 350 and junked it out

One caveat --I'm not sure of. Didn't the older engines have a smaller torque converter nose? Not sure what year they changed that.
Click to expand...

67 and older had small splines and small hub on the converters

68 and newer had large spline and hubs
 
This looks like the engine to get -> http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=146216

Check to make sure that you can connect the transmission kick-down linkage to the four barrel carb but this would be a great engine for you.

Really really nice looking car too. You might want to consider spraying the front seats with some vinyl paint, I think you can get a really good color match from
"MoPaint".
 
First I'll say: Very nice looking 65!!

Put a 318 in it! It's simple to do; it's 45 more cubic inches! Unless you tell them, 99.9% will never know. Keep the original 273 in a corner. A stock production line 318 short block with a cam change ( stock 340, Comp Magnum 270, EX268H, or something else in this range), 66 and later closed chamber 273 heads, or closed chamber 302's, eather with 1.88 intakes, and 1.6 exhausts, cut .030, Edelbrock Performer, or Holley Street Dominator intake( paint the intakes engine color), headers. This will make for a sweet, drive it any where, any time car. It would be capable of deep 14's to high 13's in the quater mile.

One other thing though, with your present tranny and converter, the hub on the converter is smaller OD than the ID of the crank register, you would need to have a small ring made to put in the end of the crank to stablize the converter, not a big deal, I had to do it to mine before I swaped out the tranny.
 
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