Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Did it go when you unscrewed it or was it long gone?
73 Dart Alternator doesn't show charge anymore.
- Thread starter SputnikOne
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SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
I assume it was probably long gone, hard to tell though, I loosened the bolt but the connector didn't want to come out, so I tightened it again but wouldn't actually get tight, and then I just could tug the entire thing out like that.
No way I'm strong enough to do that kinda damage hah, could this explain the charge?
No way I'm strong enough to do that kinda damage hah, could this explain the charge?
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
It could. But if the brush was touching, it still might have worked. My guess is the loose connection of the green wire was the main reason. Either one could have lost contact some time after you switched from electric to mechanical pump.
As far as the loose blue wire. See if there is an electrical connection on the carburator's choke. Maybe you don't need it Hawaii but at least you'll know whatit was for.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Should I just get a new alternator at this point? the threads being broken off is not my idea of good condition, I'm pretty sure the choke still has a wire but I needa check later.
Car doesn't cold start well without the choke, even out here.
If I did get a new alternator, should I just get a 1 wire? And what amperage should I shoot for?
Car doesn't cold start well without the choke, even out here.
If I did get a new alternator, should I just get a 1 wire? And what amperage should I shoot for?
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
What to do about the alternator.
First. Don't trade it in. Knowing the rotor tested at 3 to 4 ohms indicates its probably correct specs. Most of the rebuilt ones are now coming with rotors that measure 1.6 Ohms and draw more current.
See what you can find locally as a replacement. At least it will get you going.
You can check the rotor resistance to get a sense of whether they replaced the rotor with a new, high draw - one size for all applications rotor from Wai Wie/Transpo.
Then keep an eye out, ask around for, a used 'square back' alternator. If its in working order, great. If not, what you really want from it is the back casting.
If the rear bearing is OK, everying else can swap over using standard wrenches and sockets. If the bearing is missing or needs replacement, it gets pressed out. New ones are available. There is a special adapter for pressing them, but I'm sure it can be done without if the person is careful. Look at the depth of the old one for reference. Another thing that is done on rebuilds is to throw away the grease deflector. If its there, its on the pulley side of the rotor so you won't see it unless you remove the pulley and rotor.
First. Don't trade it in. Knowing the rotor tested at 3 to 4 ohms indicates its probably correct specs. Most of the rebuilt ones are now coming with rotors that measure 1.6 Ohms and draw more current.
See what you can find locally as a replacement. At least it will get you going.
You can check the rotor resistance to get a sense of whether they replaced the rotor with a new, high draw - one size for all applications rotor from Wai Wie/Transpo.
Then keep an eye out, ask around for, a used 'square back' alternator. If its in working order, great. If not, what you really want from it is the back casting.
If the rear bearing is OK, everying else can swap over using standard wrenches and sockets. If the bearing is missing or needs replacement, it gets pressed out. New ones are available. There is a special adapter for pressing them, but I'm sure it can be done without if the person is careful. Look at the depth of the old one for reference. Another thing that is done on rebuilds is to throw away the grease deflector.
If its there, its on the pulley side of the rotor so you won't see it unless you remove the pulley and rotor.
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Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Here's one that has never been rebuilt. 
Notice the raised rings on the bearing, and the smooth finish of the castings.
Somewhere around '74 they put a round tag with the 'amp rating' on one of the housing bolts. This one has a '73 casting date.
Also the pulley is correct. The new machined pulleys ought to be better but in my experience most are not. The dimensions and positioning are slightly off.
carefully remove all of the parts and gently clean.
Notice the raised rings on the bearing, and the smooth finish of the castings.
Somewhere around '74 they put a round tag with the 'amp rating' on one of the housing bolts. This one has a '73 casting date.
Also the pulley is correct. The new machined pulleys ought to be better but in my experience most are not. The dimensions and positioning are slightly off.
carefully remove all of the parts and gently clean.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
So you don't recommend an off-the-shelf replacement? I understand the bad reputation on getting brand new aftermarket parts, but ones like these from the autozone near me look promising, atleast to a alternator noob like me.
Duralast Alternator DL75334
Duralast Alternator DL75334
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Do a continuity check on the wire to the choke, if there is one. It should be the other wire from the engine connector if I read the wiring diagram correctly.
Chrysler used a mechanical choke with a bimetal coil. The electric was an assist to warm it up faster. At some point, they may have gone over to an electric only choke heat.
When you get other stuff figured out, you can work on choke settings. There's an initial setting ( engine off) and there is a pull off (engine running - vacuum opens the choke a bit). And another adjustment that hopefully you don't have to mess with, to see the choke opens enough as throttle is opened.
60 amp or lower factory style. (aka standard squareback with isolated field)
The amp ratings are a bit of game.
Its not clear how the different companies 'rate' their alternators.
Factory replacement ratings would have been in the 46 to 50 amp range.
Aftermarket/replacement we kindof have to take what we can get.
Not sure what is available where you are.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
In the photo, that's a revised squareback. Those came with a higher draw rotor than the standard squarebacks.
If they have a regular squareback, there's at least a chance that it will be better match for the car's wires and regulator.
Identifying Chrysler Alternators (1960-1976)
Roundback and Squareback refer to the style of housing. Roundback through model year 1969. Roundback for model years 1970-71 usually has a slightly different rear housing Squareback Revised Squareback Is most easily differentiated by the thin middle between the housings. Overall these...
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SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
What about just commiting to a one wire alternator? any major drawbacks besides having to do some wiring?
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/RAY2132022
Here's a remanufactured 60 Amp non revised squareback from NAPA, Look any better?
Here's a remanufactured 60 Amp non revised squareback from NAPA, Look any better?
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Did some more looking around, the battery terminal on the electrical choke is empty, most likely where that wire came from, which explains why the choke doesn't work, and was disconnected entirely when I got the car, seems like the previous owner *really wanted* this electrical fuel pump, and paid a heavy price for installing it. Cleaned up the connections for the green wire, figured I'd humor myself and see if I could reassemble the broken alternator terminal, no luck, definitely gonna need a replacement there. Put the blue pin back in the connector after cleaning it, having alittle difficulty keeping it secured and not easily able to be pulled out.
I don't currently have a new connector for the end of the green wire, a new alternator that I can get soonish (preferably a part I can pick up from a store nearby), and I don't have spare wire or tools to reconnect the blue wire that's now too short to the electric choke. Do until I get a new alternator, this is probably where it's gonna sit.
I don't currently have a new connector for the end of the green wire, a new alternator that I can get soonish (preferably a part I can pick up from a store nearby), and I don't have spare wire or tools to reconnect the blue wire that's now too short to the electric choke. Do until I get a new alternator, this is probably where it's gonna sit.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Look at the Service Manual and the Tech Conference to see what choke should be on that carb.
Even an electric choke will close and pull-off without the electric. The electric simply assists with the heating the bimetal. Previous owner may have mechanically disabled the choke.
If these resources weren't pointed out to you before:
www.mymopar.com for scanned service manuals, parts books, and Master Tech conference.
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics The on-line Imperial Club has a better index of the Tech Conference.
The 1970 Hamtramck Registry Library Page (1970 - 1974) Has Service Bulletins (updates to the parts and service books) and Sales Information (such as options for buyers)
The Ancor marine wire products are pretty good. Here on the mainland they are carried by chain stores such as West Marine. Some West stores also have reels of marine wire in a wide range of sizes and insulation colors. The wire on reels is sold by the foot. The majority of stores have a more limited selection. They probably also have heat shrink tubing - I always by from McMaster-carr so haven't paid attention.
For tools you'll need crimpers, wire cutter and wire stripper.
If you want OEM type terminations, the original terminals are almost all "open barrel" terminals. Sometimes available in parts stores, often easier to order them. Same with the open barrel crimpers.
Sources for Chrysler type wire terminals
Found some on-line retailers for the 'mopar' style terminals. A couple places call them Packard 58. Need to confirm what covers. Only thing I don't like is one place claim the one covers 3 wire sizes; and the other place skips 16 AWG, and the third only carries one size? Eastern Beaver Open...
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A bit of Wiring 101
It seems like the official FABO winter project for 2021 is rewiring your car. A lot of folks have been asking wiring questions over the past couple weeks so I thought I'd try a bit of a how-to. I'm rewiring my 64 Dart wagon after it decided to melt most of the underhood wires into a big mess...
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Splicing with open barrel can be done with or without soldering.
Inline wiring splice clips........from the Dodge RAM service manual
!!HUH!! Old man learned something. Was into the Dodge ram service manual and saw a little drawing about inline splice "clips" A simple little "U" shaped clip that you wrap around the "running" wire along with the "to be added" tap wire, and crimp. Solder........Makes a...
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There are other methods that work. Here's one
Clever splice
Saw this a few months ago, just saw it again. Clever splice, looks very strong. WNEC™ - Waterproof Solder Wire Connectors
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Alternator:
I agree that its best to go in person and look. No way to know for sure if the photo is the same as whats on the shelf. Heck they might have a dusty ol box with what you want, or a brandy new one size fits our profit model who cares about your car.
slantsixdan (dan Stern) has posted that Old Parts Northwest in Washington has new old stock alternators
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
So I should just being a voltmeter to the store and measure the resistance like I did on mine? What's an acceptable range for it to be in? Just around 3?
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Working on removing the old alternator, shouldn't it be mounted on this bracket? Because it sure isn't.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Yes it should!
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Amazing, one more bolt I may or may not have hah.
This bottom mounting bolt is really kicking my butt right now, I'm sure we'll get there.
This bottom mounting bolt is really kicking my butt right now, I'm sure we'll get there.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
It's been a while since I had a slant six so can't recall any tricks.
It is a long bolt through a spacer (hopefully the spacer is in there) trough the other casting ear and then a short spacer.
Use all the tricks you know. Sometimes a little, I mean a little, shock or three in the clockwise (tighter) helps break it loose. This is one of those situations its hard to make suggestions without being there and feeling it. I assume you have reasonably decent leverage. Leverage helps.
It is a long bolt through a spacer (hopefully the spacer is in there) trough the other casting ear and then a short spacer.
Use all the tricks you know. Sometimes a little, I mean a little, shock or three in the clockwise (tighter) helps break it loose. This is one of those situations its hard to make suggestions without being there and feeling it. I assume you have reasonably decent leverage. Leverage helps.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Wrapped a towel around the handle of my sprocket (to protect my soft non mechanic hands) and pretty much put all my body weight into it and it came loose, got the belt off and the alternator out and took it inside.
Good news though, the new alternator form Napa measures 3.15 Ohms, like the old one did, and everything appears to be the same on them.
Good news though, the new alternator form Napa measures 3.15 Ohms, like the old one did, and everything appears to be the same on them.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Only real difference i see is the new one doesn't turn as freely as the old one, it turns but it's got more resistance on it
Better or worse?
Better or worse?
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Well, now I'm confused, the hand around the middle of the casing is thin like a revised square back and that definitely did not match the pictures on the part I ordered time to do some digging I guess.
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
It's the same part number I ordered, you can see the one I sent earlier, it doesn't look like this one at all, any thoughts on if it will still be a good choice?
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Uhg. I'm pretty cynical so would say it's not worth spending the time and effort to install IF you have other choices.
The ole' switcheroo trick is all about reducing inventory and increasing profit. The revised squareback will physically fit, sometimes with a little more effort or straining the wires to hook up. That's not their problem.
Also, its hard to be sure, but like you, I'd expect a the rotor to spin a bit more freely.
One reason may be the rear bearing is pressed in too far. This one got so hot it changed the color of the steel case.
This is the one I cleaned up spinning like a top.
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Squarebacks use these brushes and holders
Revised squarebacks use a different horizontal brush insolator
The ole' switcheroo trick is all about reducing inventory and increasing profit. The revised squareback will physically fit, sometimes with a little more effort or straining the wires to hook up. That's not their problem.
Also, its hard to be sure, but like you, I'd expect a the rotor to spin a bit more freely.
One reason may be the rear bearing is pressed in too far. This one got so hot it changed the color of the steel case.
This is the one I cleaned up spinning like a top.
Changing a pulley on an alternator.
I am helping a buddy do an A/C conversion in his car, it currently has a single groove pulley on a good alternator. I have some dual groove pulleys here. What is the process to change pulleys?
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Squarebacks use these brushes and holders
Revised squarebacks use a different horizontal brush insolator
SputnikOne
Well-Known Member
Yep, it definitely has the U shaped brush holder in it.
What would be the issue of installing a revised one instead?
What would be the issue of installing a revised one instead?
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Besides fit - which you can manage - the biggest problem may be field current draw.
Lets see if we can find some specs.
1973 2.5 to 3.1 Amps
Here's spec's for squareback that @Dana67Dart bought a couple years ago
6.2 amps Not sure if that was a revised squareback or not.
This is the crap shoot we have with the current offerings from parts stores.
Similar from a revised squareback. 6.8 amps
So 6 amps is 3 to 4 more amps than the wires and regulator was intended to handle.
It will probably be OK for a while, and then in my experience, the regulator may flake out, or if the wires and connections aren't great, they will get worse.
If you use it, keep an eye on the ammeter, especially after starting, and keep your hand held voltmeter handy.
It certainly should work.
Lets see if we can find some specs.
1973 2.5 to 3.1 Amps
Here's spec's for squareback that @Dana67Dart bought a couple years ago
6.2 amps Not sure if that was a revised squareback or not.
This is the crap shoot we have with the current offerings from parts stores.
Similar from a revised squareback. 6.8 amps
So 6 amps is 3 to 4 more amps than the wires and regulator was intended to handle.
It will probably be OK for a while, and then in my experience, the regulator may flake out, or if the wires and connections aren't great, they will get worse.
If you use it, keep an eye on the ammeter, especially after starting, and keep your hand held voltmeter handy.
It certainly should work.
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