advice: 500hp SB build

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74duster360 said:
Here is a build for you, as this is what i have in duster.

360, stock stroke & .040 KB107 pistons set at 0 deck.
340 rods (race prepped)
Lunati solid roller cam #60433 - 249/255 at .050 585/600 lift
Crane Ultra Pro roller lifters(no need to grind block, they just drop in)
Eddy heads(cleaned up & flowed) 270 on int. 205 on ex. @ 550 lift.
All new springs & retainers for the roller.
Had to redo the valve job as it was crappy out of the box.
Eddy Air Gap intake(port matched to heads) & holley 750HP.
Milodon oil pan, rollmaster timing chain, arp everywhere.

Idles at 850 w/ 9.5 in. of vaccum, soso w/ my pwr. brakes.

Dynoed @ 519.8hp @6250
495.9tq @4500
:cheers:
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wow - impressive. This is actually really apealing - doesn't sound too exotic and/or too exspensive. I ca use the crank I already have for it too. Did you do the build, or did someone build it for you? Any custom work necessary?
How 'bout the head work - who did it, and what exactly did it entail?

Most importantly, how's the car suspension set up, and how does the car perform/drive with that beast between the fenders?
 
A pump gas 4 inch stroker with out of the box Edeys ,Lanati voodo, will make between 450 and 475, using a 850 quick fuel.
 
moper said:
So again, what is the budget? A figure please...lol
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I honestly don't know - 5k? The block is machined and ready. If I can use 'em, the stock rods were done as well. stock stroke balanced crank done and polished (I guess will need to be re-balanced with new pistions if I don't stroke), windage tray is there with the pan and HV oil pump, pickup, ignition, MP valve covers, dist. drive, Headman headers.

Need: heads, intake, carb, rockers, springs, push rods, pistons, rods(?), crank(?), cam, lifters, and any additional machining for the new parts.
 
moper said:
What was done to the block already?
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bored .030, line honed, hot tanked, decked. Sorry to say i don't remember how much it was decked, but not anything that affected standard intake mounting.
 
This was not a budget build when i look back on it.
You can make this kind of power with a stroker for a lot less
than i spent. There was a lot of machining (money) spent on block and crank, as well as rockers, push rods and on & on but i wanted to play w/360
Our goal was minimum 500 hp. and as much trq. as we could, w/o getting
to carried away.
It is not as wild in the car as you might think, but i do have a 4.56 gears
and 4000 converter to make it all work.

I have not had it to the track yet, but it pulls harder than my old 360 which
was no slouch (11.80 on street tires and full exhaust)

Anyways, just an example of what can be done and you can't go wrong
with recommendations from moper either.
 
And you're stuck on 500hp? The reason I'm asking, and being kind of a jerk about it is I need to know what the honest starting point is. In technical terms, you put the cart ahead of the horse. To make big power with moderate cost means buidling smart. The base is the machining. With that in mind... A 4" stroker engine should be sonic tested before a dollar is spent on machining anything. High horsepower build needs main studs. Even factory strokes. But, you have already line honed... and when studs are installed, the thing needs to be honed again because the studs will distort the main bores. Then theres the bores... You dont finish hone the bores until you have the pistons in your hands. Because the pistons need a certain spec for wall clearance. These issues sound trivial. However when things are not done just right, power is sacrificed. With that said, and the $5K budget, I dont think you have enough to make a 500hp 4" stroker. Stock rods are not enough for that level with a 4" crank. You'll need heads that flow 250cfm at least, 280 would be better. The M1 single plane intak with an open 1" spacer, carb of at least 870cfm wet flow rated, headers at least 1 3/4 primaries, a solid flat tappet cam, and adjustable valve train. In very general terms, the costs break down like this: Lower end machining, parts including stroker kit, $4000. Heads and valve train $3K, intake, carb, ignition, headers $1500. End total is about 8500 when it's all totalled. Some new parts you have which will save a small amount. It ends up being around $16-17/hp for a small block at 500hp.
 
Sorry if I was a little terse last night guys. It was a long night (not car related) and some of that spilled onto you guys. My apologies...
 
Well, $8k on the engine might be a bit much for me concidering I have the rest of the car to restore as well.

Moper - this is the story - I had the engine work done originally for my Ramcharger - Now the engine is sitting on a stand, minus the original heads and intake - so I decided I want to go in a completely different direction with the build and put it in the Demon. I thought I might be ahead of the game since the block work has been done - I guess not. Out of curiousity - what does everybody else do if they decide to change pistons - do people actually have the bores re-done every time?

Ok - given what i alreday have in terms of the block, crank, and rods - can you recommend a streetable combination that might put a 4 speed Demon, in full trim, in the 11's (just assume I'm an expert w/ the 4 speed:-D)? I'd like decent idle, but I want it to be able to get up and go. Same suspension setup I mentioned before - SS springs, offset hangers/shackles, 4.10's, and the fattest, stickiest street tire I can fit in the stock wheel well (lip rolled). Is that possible?
 
moper said:
Sorry if I was a little terse last night guys. It was a long night (not car related) and some of that spilled onto you guys. My apologies...
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I didn't think you were rude - you and the rest of the guys are always a huge help - i appreciate your knowledge, experience, and willingness to take the time to answer my questions.
Thanks!
 
74duster360 said:
I have not had it to the track yet, but it pulls harder than my old 360 which
was no slouch (11.80 on street tires and full exhaust)
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Do you remember any of the build specs of that old 360 you had? That's right where I want to be in terms of performance - how is/was the car set up?
 
I would'nt call a 360 running 11.80's a slouch...my 360 run's 11.80-11.82,and has outrun a lot of cars with more motor,i'll have it down to 11.40's or better soon..as for making 500 h.p. my 416 stroker cranked out 520 h.p. and 500 lbs or tq. 11.0's @120 mph....
 
Nice job stroked. Gettin the power to the pavement is where it's at.
 
stroked 340 said:
I would'nt call a 360 running 11.80's a slouch...my 360 run's 11.80-11.82,and has outrun a lot of cars with more motor,i'll have it down to 11.40's or better soon..as for making 500 h.p. my 416 stroker cranked out 520 h.p. and 500 lbs or tq. 11.0's @120 mph....
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Well, the HP# is not what's important to me, it's the performance. What is your 360 build? That's where I want to be (in the 11's).
 
Moper,
now I dont feel like Im out in space, I have $10,000 budgeted for the 416. True I want to squeeze 600Hp out of it on pump gas,but I know I will be pushing the envelope.
I do want to take a moment to say the members of this site are a great bunch, and are not affraid to give you the benifit of their knowledge.
Andrew
 
danmc77 said:
Well, the HP# is not what's important to me, it's the performance. What is your 360 build? That's where I want to be (in the 11's).
Click to expand...

Here ya go:'77 360 block 30 over and decked
stock crank
eagle sir rods
speed pro pistons flat top/rings yielding 10.7 to 1 compression
Lunati "voodoo" .513/.533 hyd. cam
Edelbrock "street" ported heads,basically just cleaned up
air gap intake port matched
quick fuel 850 carb
full msd ignition...best time so far 11.79 at 111 mph...
 
Most forged pistons, especially the cheaper ones, can run safely at a larger piston to wall clearance. The only down side is the rings are not as stable becasue the piston can rock if the bore is too loose. If the block is done, then I would not stroke it. And, I would not run hypereutectics because the bores will be loose. Something like the KB-745. It's a 9cc dish. You may have to have your block decked to get thigns the way I'd run them. I'd bring them above deck by .005". So your shop has to be able to square deck, not just mill the desk surfaces. But square deck them. Get a set of RPMs and have them lightly ported (stage one for the typical pro shops) and milled to 62ccs and the valve job corrected. Swap the springs to match the cam, a cheap way out may be inserting an inner spring to the existing Edelbrock units to get the pressure the cam needs. Just dont install the inners until after the cam's broken in. Use the Fel Pro Performance gasket. The engine needs to be internally balanced, and it will require Mallory metal. Your rods can be used as is, but I am hoping they got good (ARP) bolts when they were redone. For the cam, any flat tappet in the 240°@.050 intake, and 245°@.050 exh, with lift over .560 would be good. Run an Air Gap, or RPM on it, with a simple 750fcm 4150 series, or the 670 Street Avenger. 1 5/8 cheapie headers will work fine. I've been looking into the Pro Billet ready to run distributors, or a std Pro billet. It ends up with about 10.6:1 static with a .030 quench and should make at least 450hp on pump fuel. That is enough for 11s if it sticks and you can drive.

I think it could be done for about $6K depending.
 
Here’s my new build that I’m assembling right now, it should be a little over 500 hp.

360 block, Eagle 4 inch steel crank (410 ci), Scat I-beams, Diamond pistons, Total seal rings, 10.8:1 compression,
ARP main/head studs, Edelbrock heads with stage 2 port from RyanJ @ Shady Dell (flow 293 @ 0.600),
Comp Pro Magnum Rockers, Comp solid roller XR286R 248/254 @ 0.05 and 0.576/0.582 lift,
Air-Gap, Proform 750 dp, Headman 1 ¾ primary headers, 727 w/ PTC 8 in converter,
4.10 gears, Moser 35 spline axels, spool, Hoosier 28x 11.5 QTP, 3250 lbs with driver.

All this wrapped in a 67 Barracuda…Should be good for low 11’s easily. With a 950 dp and a Victor intake, 10’s should be attainable.:-D

Good luck with your build!
 
Fly, A 416 I did 4 years ago, same heads from Ryan, same cam (exactly...lol), only deviation was Pro Gram caps, Eagle rods, and Callies crank, made 540 with an RPM and HP950, and 510 with the 6bbl. So I'd say you're safe... Work on your rear suspension...lol.
 
moper said:
Fly, A 416 I did 4 years ago, same heads from Ryan, same cam (exactly...lol), only deviation was Pro Gram caps, Eagle rods, and Callies crank, made 540 with an RPM and HP950, and 510 with the 6bbl. So I'd say you're safe... Work on your rear suspension...lol.
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Yeah, I'm looking to do Caltracks next year. The old combo was doing 1.57 60' times with worn-out leafs, drag shocks and a pinion snubber.
 
Fly, did you use/need the Comp spring.
And if so, what did it take to get them on the head?
 
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