anti-pollution when did it start

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Kladen

Kladen

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with a new law coming soon here in Quebec, Canada, where you must pass an inspection for your anti-pollution system every year I've been wondering, when did dodge started adding those system on their motor?

I have a '74 plymouth Scamp with a stock 318 with header. From my reading I migth have the EGR valve.
 
If Canada was same as U.S. PVC valve "only" was started in early 60's

Full engine smog, IE revamped timing, carb jetting, "smog pumps" on other brands started in California in 66, all other U.S. states in 68 model year

It only got worse from there. EGR, unleaded fuel, various electronic controlled carbs, bleachk

I can still remember a short, whiney voiced Chivvy mechanic in the fall of 67, we all standing around "whut about these new smog laws"

Lloyd, his high whiney irritating voice, (read this with your nose pinched) "Why, the pubic will never stand for it!! There'll be riots in the streets. People will be bla bla bla."

And of course, ......................we all just shut up and took it.

With all the hot rodding, modifications, etc, it is interesting to note that EVEN THOUGH there seems to be no (U.S.) federal enforcement of smog laws for cars, IT IS ILLEGAL to remove or disable any smog equipment on any car.

'Course "aye" own a 67..............
 
no, go older yet, 1963 or older. then you need not to wear even your seat belt--you still can install seat belts and wear them but the freaken law can't tell you to wear them.

Michigan has cool laws, we got no safety checks or smog for any pass cars but if they pulled that crap on me, well I get something old, really old and install my 340 and other newer stuff.

I really like those 1930's cars with a V8 engine.
 
Hey, I got a stupid question. After all these years of being force-fed about smog and global warming, and after all the billions of dollars spent trying to stop it, why do we still have global warming?
Wait....now that I think about it, I remember that asshole Jimmy Carter on TV in the 70's saying we were causing global COOLING and we were all gonna freeze to death. What happened to that, and have we fixed this so called heating/cooling problem, that we supposedly created?
Who caused the earth to warm up back at the end of the ice age? Were there cavemen driving 440's back then, or was it their hair spray?

George
anti-government controll
 
Look what this clean air regulations did, more factory jobs in Mexico vs the USA .

We might be doing our part but Russia and china sure aren't. Those coal plants in the USA are still dirty as F .

Valuable land is around all coastal areas now, if Long Island were to flood and be gone forever, millions-billions would be wiped out. If it can be prevent from happening for a few thousand years from a few hundred well I can understand government thinking long term. Manhattan is also a island, this is why the USA is so worry about raising water levels

Only thing is I own no land in L.I. and I will be dead in 300 years, so why should I care, lol. There is still lots of land that is too cold to live on 24/7, those areas may open up and be inhibited.

Its funny how lots of that cold uninhibited land lays in Canada and just now Canada is pulling out of Kyoto Protocol
 
Kladen - in Ontario, smog laws only pertain to cars made after 1988. Maybe Quebec will be the same. OH, George R - Jimmy Carter lost the next election, and we got global warming!
 
Yeah Jimmy was an asshole but he wanted better fuel mpg from cars to save energy, if we would had listen we might not being spending so much money now just to fuel our cars.

hummers and suv's in such large numbers would had never happen, $5 a gallon gas might not have happen either or if it did it would not have been felt so hard.

Now we might get 54 mpg cars in ten years to try to make up for lost time, that stinks. Even if we don;t buy them many other people will and the roads will soon be clogged up with smart cars and volts, taking away from the stop lights like a moped does. Unless those red lights are reduced the time they are red, traffic is going to move slower yet come 10 years from now. We might get all day rush hour jam ups. God for bid hitting one of those smart cars with an old tank of a car
 
YellowDart69 said:
Kladen - in Ontario, smog laws only pertain to cars made after 1988. Maybe Quebec will be the same. OH, George R - Jimmy Carter lost the next election, and we got global warming!
Click to expand...

Yeah for the most part in rust belt areas, they only go back 25-30 years. Nevada goes way back to 1967 but they are desert-dry climates, cars last much longer.

I would be surprise if Quebec cracks down on the pre-1975 cars. Those are very few on the roads and not driven year round.

The press might say one thing but what happens isn't always what the press says. Grand Rapids Michigan ten years back said smog testing will be happening, then a few days before it was to happen it was scarp--never ever happen.

Its just so you get rid of your cars or clean them up...which some folks did in Grand Rapids
 
I was used to '60's engines. Bought a 70 Duster, looked under the hood- what is this bs? 2 voltage regulators? What are these wires, and what di they do? Ripped it out, and taught it that it was a 68. 69, just venting hoses.

73, serious , lean burn. Carb, dist, jets in intake... Oh, 72, lower cr. On a 340, from 10.5 to 8.8?
 
There are a number of comments in this thread that confuse a number of different environmental regulations.

First off all smog laws that began in the mid to late sixties were concerned only with the three major components of smog. These were hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides, and carbon monoxide. These three components made up a lions share of smog in most urban areas.

While the early restrictions were simple and over time became more and more complex. For a long time they severely restricted the performance potential of engines, they did have the effect of dramatically cleaner air. For example, when I was a kid growing up in the L.A. area we often couldn't go outside for recess because of "smog alerts." Essentially the air was so polluted that if you exercised and took a deep breath your lungs would physically hurt. Today, the air in the Los Angeles basin, is cleaner than it has been since the end of WWII. Most of the time when I was a kid you couldn't even see the mountains, after it rained and the air was temporarily clean we'd comment, "Look the mountains are out." Yet the number of cars and miles driven has increased radically.

Second, cars were dealt a double whammy in the 1970s. First the smog laws then the fact that the oil companies took nearly ten points of octane out of the fuel in the early 70s. This lead to about a 2 point reduction in compression ratio. This reduction in octane took 20 Horsepower right off the top of any performance engine.

Finally, auto companies began to rate engines with net horsepower instead of gross horsepower. This meant that motors appeared to put out about 40 HP less as they now were tested while spinning the accessories like the alternator, waterpump and power steering pump.

These factors all lead to a nadir in automotive development where the 1980 Corvette only put out 150 HP. Yet, since 1980 engineers have learned how to make HP engines within the constraints of smog laws. The result, today's cars blow away anything built in the 60s.

So smog laws have helped to make the air we breath a lot cleaner. By the way, don't blame Carter for them. The EPA was started under Nixon, and virtually all the regulations for things like auto smog laws were started under Nixon or even earlier.

Don't Panic. Even here in California, the toughest state in the country when it comes to smog laws, cars built before 75 are exempt. My guess is that your Canadian province will do the same.

A note regarding smog laws and green house gases. Currently there are NO restrictions regarding green house gas emissions in either the US or Canada. As a matter of fact the US never ratified the Kyoto protocol and Canada just exited the Kyoto protocol.

The US made clear that the US will not agree to any green house gas emission limits unless limits are also placed upon China and India.

Although CO2 is a primary component of Green House Gas emissions, it is NOT a pollutant in the traditional sense. As a matter of fact virtually all smog control devices are trying to INCREASE CO2. Huh? When an engine completely burns all the fuel the only two things to come out the tail pipe are CO2 and H2O as a result by reducing the CO and NOX, and unburnt hydrocarbons you increase the amount of CO2 and H2O.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
dodge freak said:
Yeah Jimmy was an asshole but he wanted better fuel mpg from cars to save energy, if we would had listen we might not being spending so much money now just to fuel our cars.

hummers and suv's in such large numbers would had never happen, $5 a gallon gas might not have happen either or if it did it would not have been felt so hard.

Now we might get 54 mpg cars in ten years to try to make up for lost time, that stinks. Even if we don;t buy them many other people will and the roads will soon be clogged up with smart cars and volts, taking away from the stop lights like a moped does. Unless those red lights are reduced the time they are red, traffic is going to move slower yet come 10 years from now. We might get all day rush hour jam ups. God for bid hitting one of those smart cars with an old tank of a car
Click to expand...

The fact that cars used more fuel in the earlier days has nothing at all to do with what we pay for fuel today. Nothing. The federal government makes more money from every gallon of gasoline sold then the oil company does.
There is no fuel shortage; there's plenty of fuel. The government's taxes, and futures traders are what make a gallon of gas cost so much today.

Joe Dokes said:
There are a number of comments in this thread that confuse a number of different environmental regulations.

First off all smog laws that began in the mid to late sixties were concerned only with the three major components of smog. These were hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides, and carbon monoxide. These three components made up a lions share of smog in most urban areas.

While the early restrictions were simple and over time became more and more complex. For a long time they severely restricted the performance potential of engines, they did have the effect of dramatically cleaner air. For example, when I was a kid growing up in the L.A. area we often couldn't go outside for recess because of "smog alerts." Essentially the air was so polluted that if you exercised and took a deep breath your lungs would physically hurt. Today, the air in the Los Angeles basin, is cleaner than it has been since the end of WWII. Most of the time when I was a kid you couldn't even see the mountains, after it rained and the air was temporarily clean we'd comment, "Look the mountains are out." Yet the number of cars and miles driven has increased radically.

Second, cars were dealt a double whammy in the 1970s. First the smog laws then the fact that the oil companies took nearly ten points of octane out of the fuel in the early 70s. This lead to about a 2 point reduction in compression ratio. This reduction in octane took 20 Horsepower right off the top of any performance engine.

Finally, auto companies began to rate engines with net horsepower instead of gross horsepower. This meant that motors appeared to put out about 40 HP less as they now were tested while spinning the accessories like the alternator, waterpump and power steering pump.

These factors all lead to a nadir in automotive development where the 1980 Corvette only put out 150 HP. Yet, since 1980 engineers have learned how to make HP engines within the constraints of smog laws. The result, today's cars blow away anything built in the 60s.

So smog laws have helped to make the air we breath a lot cleaner. By the way, don't blame Carter for them. The EPA was started under Nixon, and virtually all the regulations for things like auto smog laws were started under Nixon or even earlier.



Regards,

Joe Dokes
Click to expand...
I didn't blame Carter for smog laws, I was simply pointing out the fact that since his claim that we will all freeze to death by the year 2000 if we didn't do something radical never came true, the greenies have gone from crying about global cooling to crying about global warming. Since that didn't work, they now cry about global "climate change". Never once did any of them ever thing that this cycle might just be a natural part of the envrionment.
By the way, Corvette in 1980, the Cali 305 made 180HP, the base 49 state engine made 185HP and the optional L82 made 220HP. :D

I appreciate your experience as a Cali resident, to your input about smog conditions in Cali in the 70's. That is something that us on the east coast never experienced.
Merry Christmas.

George
 
"Essentially the air was so polluted that if you exercised and took a deep breath your lungs would physically hurt."




I remember that. Playing hard as a kid my lungs would hurt and it would get hard to breath. And that was only back in the late 80's early 90's. Things are a lot better now for sure.
 
Even here in the deserts of Texas, the smog law enforcement is tightening up. They are getting to be sticklers about dates of manufacture on engine swaps etc. While trying to get my '84 pickup with a swapped in '73 440 inspected, I asked the inspector what the the deal was with all the inspection stations being so tough lately. I'd driven the truck for a few years with no problems.

He said he'd just paid a $500 fine for putting a sticker on a '23 T bucket that had an '88 350 Chevy block in it. It didn't have all the pertinent '88 emissions controls installed, hence it would not legally pass. It was legally registered as a '23 Ford, but the law says the emissions package must be of whichever is the latest model year, vehicle or engine.

So, if they wanted to be assholes about it, if I dropped a late 5.7 Hemi in a '55 Plymouth Savoy, I'd have to have the entire emissions package, OBDII, the works. I went through this scenario with my pickup. As we all know, NO factory 440 ever had converters, but since it's sitting in an '84, now it's required. They also busted my chops about the open element air cleaner, lack of charcoal cannister, and the friggin' gas cap's inability to seal.

I parked the truck in back in '07 rather than try to continue and comply with all the silly assed rules, sold the 440 to my nephew who stuck it in his off road only Ramcharger. So, to Dodge the law in Texas anyway, {pun intended} I'd build a pre '68 car/truck, with a pre '68 engine, and leave the inspection station with my foot on the floor, a smile on my face, and a finger out the window.
 
redlined said:
the law says the emissions package must be of whichever is the latest model year, vehicle or engine..
Click to expand...

This amounts to some incredibly heavy "suckage."

So does this mean that if you were unfortunate (example) enough to have your completely smog free 67 built to the hilt Dodge window a block, and got a late model 440 BLOCK out of, say, a motorhome, that simply using a late REPLACEMENT block gets you into the "lotto smog" arena?

But I think Idaho "sucks" as well

Last I knew, there were only two southern counties that required emissions checks, but up here in NORTHern Idaho (It's a state of the mind) they were rattling around about smog checks, due to Spokane air drifting over here

As far as I can tell, Idaho (unlike, say, CA) gives no exemptions for anything that required smog. That IS one reason I bough a 67, although I'm not effected ....yet
 
Here in Australia, we got PCV Valve rules in about 1966/67, Carbon Canisters in about 1975, EGR in 1976, and Catalytic convertors in 1986, as was the introduction of Unleaded petrol.
In the state of Qld, you can put newer engines in an older car, BUT, must run all the pollution gear of that engine.
You can put older engines in a newer car, BUT, it must run on LPG only.....NOT dual fuel.
We don't have Emissions testing here.....yet.
 
in one of the first statements, someone says something about them putting smog pumps on our cars in 86? i have never seen a 70- 340 car with a smog pump......?
 
Funny how Texas is so gun and death plenty happy yet when it comes to hot rod cars oh no, we don't want those things.

Nice how they are trying to say the newest item is what standards should be, really nice--what if its an after market block ?
 
340plot said:
in one of the first statements, someone says something about them putting smog pumps on our cars in 86? i have never seen a 70- 340 car with a smog pump......?
Click to expand...

That might be me. I was generalizing, Mopar, Ford, GM. GM used smog pumps "right out of the hole" in 68

Mopar "snuck by" with advance curve mods, hotter stats, leaner carbs, modified cam timing. Many guys used to look at there 68-- Mopars and try and tell me "they don't have any smog junk." Oh, yeah, they did, you just could not SEE it.
 
I remember back in 1969 I was just out of high school and I drove a old 57 Chevy that left somewhat of a blue smoke trail. A cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket for a defective muffler. I told him the muffler was fine it was the rings that were bad. He said "yeah but we don't have an ordnance for bad rings"

Times have changed
 
Jonny H said:
I remember back in 1969 I was just out of high school and I drove a old 57 Chevy that left somewhat of a blue smoke trail. A cop pulled me over and gave me a ticket for a defective muffler. I told him the muffler was fine it was the rings that were bad. He said "yeah but we don't have an ordnance for bad rings"

Times have changed
Click to expand...

Oh they sure have. Fat wide tires used to get you a ticket, now today every sports car comes with wide tires, lol The thinking was in the rain wide tires caused the car to slid on out--was a safety hazard.

You can get away wit more stuff today, IMO but the law has more power to come after you if you really piss them off
 
Got a friend w/ a late-model, OBDII car that is fairly built (intercooled blower motor w/mods, headers, true duals). Ran it throught emissions sans catalytic converters, passed with flying colors. Cats are back on it, but had to run it through to get tabs and had a straight pipe where the cats should have been at the time.
 
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