blueprint 408

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Brad - As I noted - Andrew only posted (I'm pretty confident) when someone pointed him here. 2 posts in a year tells me that. So I'm sure there's the "third side of the truth" somewhere in there but no Kudos for addressing the issue in this post.
In terms of your risk management - I think the difference is "almost 0 %" has to be the standard when the vehicle is airborn because failure means almost assured reath for the pilot at minimum. On these old cars there is no liability to parts suppliers and no searches to pinpoint failure. There's no financial reason to do that. Even on your brake setup - If they are not factory parts or factory spec replacements there are no regulations or mandatory quality control for the stuff. By chosing to replace the factory parts the owner assumes liability. I'd bet my house that our legal system would take that view. I had a discussion years ago with the owner of from XV Motorsports about them using the Corvette knuckles on thier suspensions. I asked if he ever did failure analysis on them because the cars he was putting them under were heavier by a bit than the Corvettes they were designed for. His answer was that his engineer had looked at them and said they would be fine. But they never broke one to see where "fine" ended. That was too much money to be spent with little or no benefit in his eyes. Now over years I'd say he was proven right. Everyone in business has varying degrees of anticipated losses and the more complicated the product the greater the possibility of outside involvement ruining the product and giving the manufacturer and out. Everyone has the disclaimer of "installer error" on the second page of thier customer service line refeence notebook. Right after "This is the first we're hearing about it".
 
Yes Moper I agree....What do you think the bow tie gods mean when they advertise "Certified GM Parts"? Certified to what, by who? LOL. To get back on topic.

I personaly have found that "bolt on" is BS inthe auto world. In aviation. I have very little faith in FAA Form 337 certifications for aircraft parts either. As an inspector I have found Canadian & USA airworthiness Certifications signed by dead people, people who do live on this planet and so. I have seen Bell 205 *Huey" transmiisions that are spray can overhauls, signed off on FAA forms as "as new like condition". Sounds like a guy selling a Vett....LOL Just kidding. What I want to get across to everyone is.

Beware
S.T.O.P = Stop, Think, Obeserve, Proceed
Ask lots of questions
Get it in writing

Take the bus or train it's safer than flying....LOL
 
Duster and everyone else, our conclusion was two part, one there was a lot of debris of some kind that had gone through the bearings, they did show abrasive wear.
Whether it was left in the shortblock by our manufacturing or introduced later from somewhere we are never going to know. I am not blaming the customer. The other
Problem which shows up in the pics, and we saw it too was some taper on the journals. We missed that, and its our fault. We buy our cranks from the same US vendors as everyone
Else does. Yes they come from China, as far as I know there are no cast steel cranks made by anyone in the US. A couple things we have implemented since all this happened.
We bore scope the oil galleys to inspect for cleanliness, we also sediment test random blocks. Lastly we cut the filters open after dyno testing and sediment test those. Now a short
Block doesn’t get dyno tested but full engines do. Again I think we could have done a lot better on Dusters engine, and our timeliness in responding to him. No excuses.
As far as BluePrint only having a few posts, yep, I admit I came on here to give our side, I don’t think that is wrong, I hope you guys don’t either.

Thanks,

Andrew
 
805moparkid said:
yea 2500 gets the machining done LOL... (not sayin you but for my 512)... let alone at least 2000 for the stroker kit, 100-3500 depending on the block, same with heads, valve train can be another grand if your gonna be straining it... on and on...

SS is right... tear it down... i can see not knowing or wanting to tear it down... but a machine shop would have it apart and checked really fast and they will be happy its clean!
Click to expand...

When building a stroker....you should not have to re machine the rotating assembly, period.
As for block work...imo if u have to pay more than 500-600 bucks to have block work done, as in.. bore/hone with torque plate/linehone/square decking/studs/ and of course cleaned/mag'd....then u must be using this thing in record setting competition racing/NASCAR. The above mentioned when done by todays machine shops is far more accurate then the FACTORY ever did and those mill's went 100's of thousands of miles.

can u make a deck even within a 1/4 thou? sure u can....but i dont give phuck about a rotler and a 1/4 thou, it's not gonna give me reliability or power that i can see or feel.
Bore finish, yes this must be right...sunnen ck10 does that just fine.
Heads....now heads are where it's at...and yes...you can spend $350 or $850...now whats the diff? well...steel guides arent where it's at for high lifts/rpms...and valve jobs of the basic 1 or 2 angle arent gonna give as good of as cast/as machined numbers. the wrong throat cut is all it take to kill the flow....leaning on that serdi will definitely chatter the hell outta ur valve job...but not dressing the stones and grining mile wide angles pretty much sux.

IMO the average guy will have about $1300-$1600 in a sb stroker kit [4''], thats h beams, hypep or forged, steel or nodular, rings and bearing internally balanced with a good deal...and we're all looking and spending where the deals are if we're smart.
block work in the $600 range, studded line honed,squared, torque plate..etc
Heads that will be run as machined -$600-$800 range, with heads that will be ported in the $450 range + porting cost since the head porter can correct any yesteryear valve job/troat cuts and get the numbers needed.
OR new heads=1200 'after they r checked/correced 'rhs small valve' OR 1500 for eddys or imm rhs's or .....u can spend endless amounts of coin on heads really...
but for a guy who want s a stroker in the 480-520 hp range..i dont think $3800 is far off for a 408/410 build intake to pan w/ distributor......

If you wanted cheap, go stock heads, stock distributor, cheap headers, used carb, used intake, older grind cam,....basically not the best of the best, but still over 450 hp if done right.

rambling on...
 
Ill just say this.....HP does have a cost, and at a certain point...it will really cost you.
Does everyone need 500+ HP? ....i know some that would just kill themselves or someone else with that kinda power in one of these old cars.lol

Gotta remember all the pep's claiming they had 450 hp...only to realize they had about 300, then when riding in a real 450hp car ..they just about chit themselves ;)
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
Ill just say this.....HP does have a cost, and at a certain point...it will really cost you.
Does everyone need 500+ HP? ....i know some that would just kill themselves or someone else with that kinda power in one of these old cars.lol

Gotta remember all the pep's claiming they had 450 hp...only to realize they had about 300, then when riding in a real 450hp car ..they just about chit themselves ;)
Click to expand...


Amen brother
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
Ill just say this.....HP does have a cost, and at a certain point...it will really cost you.
Does everyone need 500+ HP? ....i know some that would just kill themselves or someone else with that kinda power in one of these old cars.lol

Gotta remember all the pep's claiming they had 450 hp...only to realize they had about 300, then when riding in a real 450hp car ..they just about chit themselves ;)
Click to expand...

Couldn't be more true. A true 300 HP A body will run stout 13s if prepped properly. It's hard to tell some folks that. You can have a boatload of fun with a 13 second car on the street.
 
StrokerScamp said:
Couldn't be more true. A true 300 HP A body will run stout 13s if prepped properly. It's hard to tell some folks that. You can have a boatload of fun with a 13 second car on the street.
Click to expand...


What kinda boat do you have that you can play around with a 13 second street car in? Just yanking yer chain.
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
When building a stroker....you should not have to re machine the rotating assembly, period.
As for block work...imo if u have to pay more than 500-600 bucks to have block work done, as in.. bore/hone with torque plate/linehone/square decking/studs/ and of course cleaned/mag'd....then u must be using this thing in record setting competition racing/NASCAR. The above mentioned when done by todays machine shops is far more accurate then the FACTORY ever did and those mill's went 100's of thousands of miles.

can u make a deck even within a 1/4 thou? sure u can....but i dont give phuck about a rotler and a 1/4 thou, it's not gonna give me reliability or power that i can see or feel.
Bore finish, yes this must be right...sunnen ck10 does that just fine.
Heads....now heads are where it's at...and yes...you can spend $350 or $850...now whats the diff? well...steel guides arent where it's at for high lifts/rpms...and valve jobs of the basic 1 or 2 angle arent gonna give as good of as cast/as machined numbers. the wrong throat cut is all it take to kill the flow....leaning on that serdi will definitely chatter the hell outta ur valve job...but not dressing the stones and grining mile wide angles pretty much sux.

IMO the average guy will have about $1300-$1600 in a sb stroker kit [4''], thats h beams, hypep or forged, steel or nodular, rings and bearing internally balanced with a good deal...and we're all looking and spending where the deals are if we're smart.
block work in the $600 range, studded line honed,squared, torque plate..etc
Heads that will be run as machined -$600-$800 range, with heads that will be ported in the $450 range + porting cost since the head porter can correct any yesteryear valve job/troat cuts and get the numbers needed.
OR new heads=1200 'after they r checked/correced 'rhs small valve' OR 1500 for eddys or imm rhs's or .....u can spend endless amounts of coin on heads really...
but for a guy who want s a stroker in the 480-520 hp range..i dont think $3800 is far off for a 408/410 build intake to pan w/ distributor......

If you wanted cheap, go stock heads, stock distributor, cheap headers, used carb, used intake, older grind cam,....basically not the best of the best, but still over 450 hp if done right.

rambling on...
Click to expand...

2500 for all the machining.... and had no other machining on the 440 source kit... all speced out perfect...
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
How much did the block work cost and consist of?

Which heads? and the cost to work them?

I know the b/rb stuff is more costly, but im still curious to know.
Click to expand...

i would have to pull out the sheet which i got here somewhere.... had the block blueprinted, i had to have my Victor heads completly redone as they had all kinds of OOTB issues... think that number included valve train stuff, minus valves...
 
Ok, tried to stay positive and give people a chance. I purchase my wife a Valiant at the nationals in august. She wanted it fast and loud and fun and it had to be done before Monster Mopar. Great a new project with deadline and a high maintaince customer.
No way to get a stroker built with waiting on parts, machine shop, tune time. plus do a trans overhaul, pull rear end apart, check brakes & steering install stereo detailed and run my shop.
I, for the first time in 35yrs of wrenching started thinking about a crate motor. Looked at a lot of options, talked to a lot of people read all kinds of reviews. And decided on with my wife’s blessing a 408 from Blue Print Engine. I read all the post here, read both good and bad on line, talked to the person with the 69 dart in their gallery a couple of times. I was reasonably comfortable that all would be ok. Had it ordered through my shop and started on everything else.
Motor showed up on time looked great, dyno sheet looked good. You could tell the motor was run. I was happy. Got the motor installed trans and everything done, just needed stereo and some interior work done.
Car started and ran great, great oil pressure, ran 190, had issue with carb, may have been dirt and their instruction book is wrong about how to set total advance but I was still happy and so was my wife.
Got the exhaust done on Friday and took my wife out to dinner in her car. Sounded great and ran as well as I could expect for 19 miles. Then it started tapping very loud and lost about 10 lbs oil pressure. Stopped, trailered it back to my shop in the rain. Noise was from under the passenger side v/cover. Pulled cover found #8 exhaust pushrod about ¼ inch shorter. Pulled it apart and the 2 piece pushrod had allowed the tip to drive down into the tube. The rest of the pushrod tips looked terrible. Pulled the intake to inspect cam/lifters/ and for metal. All looked ok. Contacted Andrew here on the forum and Monday morning by phone and explained the dead line I was up against.
Warranty department said it was a known issue with a vendor and would send me new pushrods, rockers and gaskets. When I questioned about future issues with something being scored the said the notes would be in the system and would be known that the push rods failed. I needed this stuff right away (time frame) ken agreed not to pay labor but overnight the parts for Tuesday. I was fine with this just wanted it DONE.
Tuesday came got ½ half small block rockers and ½ big block. Called Andrew said they would over night them again. The right parts showed up today. 2 days wasted.
I would be less frustrated if people would return phone calls. Have to take the race car to Lucas raceway tonight so it will be tomorrow before I get it started. Have to keep my fingers crossed. Man my wife is pissed.
Update 5:52pm
Wrong!!!!!!! I was Wrong
Yes I got small block rocker arms with NO LUBE HOLES now it will be Friday before I see parts maybe. I am ready to send it back to the place who ordered it for me and put the old motor that was in it back and then try something else.
 
What is really upsetting is that all of these big name people in our hobby just dont care. Have had major problems with indy cylinder head. Had some guy sell one of my custermers a blower kit for his v6 charger, what a joke three weeks and they still can't get the tune right and now they tell him "i guess we are done". I know for a fact that my shop is not based on money but on taking care of people. How do these people get away with this crap.
 
Well their tech lines called and said thses rocker arms and pushrods would fix my issues. I guess I will stay and start it and see what happens. The shame is I was so sure I was going to have nothing but a positive post when this first started. Maybe it will still turn out that way.
 
Not talking to you Sir Thomas, your motor is installed.

If I ever got a short block from them, it be tore apart and given a good cleaning.

Yeah, then again, why not have your local engine shop just build you a short block, I did, 2 years and 6,000 miles later, zero problems with it
 
Sir Thomas
My intent was not to kick you in head, but I had a whole year of nothing but BS and heart ache dealing with these guys. I really do hope that things work out for you and your wife's car, GOOD luck.
 
I hoped that my research and talking with them would have greatly increased my chances of have good luck. Also if the knew they had an issue with parts installed why not tell me to check and see if the were installed and send me the stuff before it was installed. I would have been praising them all over the place for that.
 
I hope they make it right with you. I will just keep this a simple as I can keep calling on every issue that you have keep records of names/times and dates. also keep everything they send you even the boxes of new parts; even E-mails it you get them.when I was dealing with them I had everything.
 
Well it started right up, oil pressure was back, drove 8 miles ran like a top. I guess we will have to wait and see. For now I have to say thank to blue print they were right I just have never seen rockers with no lube holes. It could have been less stressful but it is what it is. Now to get it and my other cars ready for Indy. Thanks everybody Tom
 
Update- Had carb issues and they sent me a holley 750 to get rid of the edbro. Nor rich anymore start up and idles cold drives great. Have 550 miles on it and so far really happy. Need to get sometires under it but that will come over the winter. The only complaints anyone has is the HEI distr I am running.
 
This is why I built my own engine. That way the only person to blame is me! Having to trust others with delicate work and spending time blaming them for something you could have done is just a big waste of time and money. Buy a book and follow it step by step, very simple.
 
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