Time for your chill out pill j par. lol
Bolt in frame connectors
- Thread starter Mopar Tim
- Start date
-
Time for your chill out pill j par. lol
Nope.
I do this as a hobby, not a business. I do some fabrication work on my own cars, but there’s a big difference between doing some one off fabrication for yourself and doing any kind of fabrication for production.
Sure but the case you’re taking about was a car that had torque boxes. Without those none of that extra work would have been necessary. That’s true of pretty much any part you buy for these cars, sometimes modifications are needed, sometimes they aren’t.
And there’s still a decent difference in the amount of work and skill it takes to make some minor modifications to an existing part compared to fabricating something completely on your own.
If someone wants to buy their connectors, what difference does it make to you? Sure, you can make them yourself if you have the time, skills and equipment. And if you do that you may save some cash, although probably at the expense of your time. Which is fine if you have the time and the desire to do it. But if you don’t, so what? Heck, even if you do have the time, skills and equipment it doesn’t necessarily mean that fabricating subframe connectors is what you want to do with that time.
You have to drill holes in the frame/crossmember.
And long term the bolts tend to work themselves out. The load on the connectors tend to wallow out the holes over time. But, if you don't have a welder or don't weld, bolting the connectors in place and then driving it to a shop where then can weld them in is a decent option. That way you don't need a shop that is comfortable with chassis work, just one that can weld. I've heard of guys taking their cars to an exhaust shop, because they usually have lifts and at least relatively competent welders.
j par
Well-hung Member
I think what I was getting at was it wasn't only cheaper it was easier and faster to build them yourself but yes 10 times cheaper and probably half the time. Just like the last person who install them had to stretch them and drill them and cut them and paint them and weld them I mean how about just getting a 4-foot piece that needs two cuts and three small cuts on your rear frame.
On a bet I bet if someone dropped off an a body at my house, actually in the driveway of an apartment complex I bet in 3 hours I could buy the steel buy all the equipment have the measured cut and weld it in within 3 hours and 4 less than it cost to buy a pair of those frame connectors.
Steel $30 welder $89 helmet $35 grinder $15 cutting wheels and grinding wheels $10 an extension cord $15 is a rattle can paint $5. I can be back from the Steelyard and Harbor Freight within an hour. I can have everything measured cut and prepped within another hour weld it in in another half-hour spray-painted in about 10 minutes and I think that would leave me about 20 minutes to blow wind on my fingernails and polish them on my chest.
j par
Well-hung Member
Honestly I find this frame connectors no less than a gimmick. I mean as far as someone buying them. If someone wants to make themselves feel cozy about overspending on something that has to be fixed to make work, really come on people just a straight piece of metal stock with some non fitting ends welded to them..
Who made that rule up? A blind, deaf, dumb retard? Welded in connectors become part of the car. They make the car safer and stronger. You'd think they would want that on a bonifide race track. Even allowing welds in two locations really sucks, because that doesn't give the option of tying the floors in for a more factory installation, such as the US Car Tool connectors.
picked up some 2 x 3 square tubing...20 ft cost 44 bucks... I used less the 10 ft of it....got enough for another car...lol
In less then 2 hours had frame connectors made.....will weld them on in the morning....
In less then 2 hours had frame connectors made.....will weld them on in the morning....
You just don't get it do you?
Not everyone has to modify the off-the-shelf frame connectors. The Hotchkis connectors I bought for my Challenger fit great. And not everyone can do the kind of work needed to fabricate their own. Even someone who is willing to do that kind of fabrication, that doesn't have fabrication experience, will take a lot longer than you did to get them made. So you don't have the "end all be all" with your example. Some people will take a lot longer than that. It took me longer than 3 hours to do mine, but I did some things with mine that involved a little more fabrication work because that's what I wanted.
And, even people that CAN do that kind of work don't always want to. I've built frame connectors and I've bought frame connectors. I don't feel one bit bad about the ones that I bought, nor do I think they're somehow better than the ones I built myself. On my Dart I didn't want the square tubing look, so I bought US Cartool connectors. On my Challenger (and all E-bodies), the rear frame rails are set at an angle to the crossmember, plus there's some floor pan height issues, making the fabrication work a little more involved. I found a good deal on the Hotchkis connectors, I liked their design better than what I was going to do on my own, and so I bought them. They look great and were easy to install. So what?
Rules organizations do all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Some good, some bad, some confusing, etc. As it was already mentioned, the point in this case was to keep the class evenly matched for relatively unmodified street cars- keeping out race prepped cars. Safer and stronger is great, but safer in this particular instance may also mean stiffer, which also means FASTER. So limiting the kinds of modifications also serves to slow the cars down. That particular class also has rules about what tire compounds can be run, which limits traction, which again limits speed. It's not a top end racing class, it's for owners of street cars to have some fun. Cars with more modifications, even if they are better ones, are kept out.
Have you ever seen a car with the US Cartool connectors installed? I have and I have to disagree with your assessment. If installed correctly, they contact the car everywhere there's an edge. They slap become part of the car. They are really nice. If I ever build another Mopar, it will have some.
I think it would be better to simply allow frame connectors however you want to install them. Seems to me someone is sorta targeting Mopar........again. Because we all know how well a Mopar works when properly tied together. Oh well. Whaddya do?
Lots of cars use/benefit from subframe connectors. All the rustangs from the same era do. It's probably not anything specific against Mopars.
The problem is that with racing competitions people will do everything they can to exploit the rules. Give them an inch and they take a mile and see if they get caught during safety inspections. So the rules either have to be really specific and complicated, or just really simple and not allow certain things of any kind.
Plus all the rules come out of committee's for whatever organization is involved, and we all know how committee's work.
Well sure. If it ain't specifically in the rule book, you can do it, right? I'm thinkin Smokey Yunick's 7/8 scale Camaro. LOL
Exactly! If you can weld in frame connectors you can weld in a couple lengths of railroad track and hang your suspension off of those right? As long as the factory rails are still there somewhere?
I can't say I agree with the rule, but the reasoning makes sense. The execution is a little messed up, but again, I can kind of understand why.
j par
Well-hung Member
Yeah those frame connectors look awesome! I wish someone would lay them sideways on a piece of paper and do a drawing of that Contour so we can all make a pair with in about a half hour. Exactly how I made my vertigate mounting bracket for my a body a nice member just laid his bracket on a piece of paper and Trace around it and the holes and send it to me and I made my own. In about 20 minutes. So really all we need to do is have one person buy a pair of those get a drawing or tracing of them and have them sent back. $189 plus shipping I'm in the wrong business!
The problem is not every car is the same. That's why they make them with extra material so you can grind them to an exact fit.
j par
Well-hung Member
Just to answer your you don't get it question: I'm not going to get it either, I've got it buying too many other parts but I'm not going to "get it" on two pieces of metal stock.
I really don't care what people do like you may suggest sometimes but really I just want people to be able to enjoy their hobby without being scared they have to buy a lot of expensive things to make it fun. There's a lot of things that can be done if people knew there was a process and it was an easy process and a doable process. Maybe somebody reading will say hey instead of buying them maybe I'll try this myself and have a bunch of tools left over to do other projects? A lot of people don't know that welding is as easy as near using a glue gun. With a little practice it's very simple and probably something that can be look up on YouTube quite quickly. I'm really I say all this for discussion sake not for argument sake Maybe as a counter point for someone to ponder?
j par
Well-hung Member
Bahahaha my point proven again! LOL you still have to make them fit and grind on them and then weld them oh my God! That's not even right! So once again I'm better off making my own cardboard cut out of the bottom of my own car and basically making my own?
Save yourself some time and buy a set that's already made up and just weld them in.
That only proves youhave to mod stuff in the hot rodding world. That's a given. If you don't like that maybe you need to take up stamp collecting.
j par
Well-hung Member
Appreciate you agreeing with me!
I'm having a cam and lifters reground for 150, let's see if it doesn't cost me 300 to get it back in there LOL! That's doing it myself. I couldn't imagine having to pay someone to do absolutely everything or building every part that I need. I personally just would never be able to afford this Hobby.
I'll see your cam and lifters and raise you one rotisserie. Picked up the rotisserie today from meathead 66. So tell me if I go to weld these frame connectors into the car on the rotisserie do I need to leave the doors on it?
Last edited:
famous bob
mopar misfit
just reread this, the above post cracked me up ! LOL " the 2" sq. tubing cost $18.00 !" LOL
famous bob
mopar misfit
These rules would cater to a full framed chevy !!
Welding is as easy as using a glue gun?! Yeah no, sorry. Total BS. Maybe you're fortunate enough to have some natural skill there, but that statement right there tells me you don't know much about welding at all. Welding on these cars isn't necessarily the most difficult welding there is and you can get to a place where you can do some of these modifications yourself at home with an inexpensive welder, but you're dramatically oversimplifying the process.
I don't completely disagree with what you're saying, people can do a lot of work on these cars themselves if they're willing to put in the time and that CAN save some money. But oversimplifying the skills, time, and equipment needed doesn't help anyone.
Sure, people run out of money thinking they have to buy all the fancy expensive stuff marketed for these cars. But I've also seen people get in WAY over their heads trying to do things themselves when they don't have the skills or equipment to be successful. And typically, its MUCH worse financially when you do the latter. Buy a bunch of parts and run out of money and you still have a fairly complete car and a bunch of parts to sell. Tear the whole thing down yourself and get halfway through some metal replacement before you realize everything is crooked and you've got a paperweight when it comes to unload your project. Then you either pay out the nose for someone with the skills to go back and fix your work, or let it go for pennies.
I think people should do more of their own work. I do all of mine, and I do a decent amount of fabrication too. But that doesn't mean that's the right choice for everyone. I have thousands of dollars of tools and decades of experience working on cars. You can do your own work and find it easy, that's great. But not everyone can do that, so be realistic. Encouraging people to do their own work is one thing, berating and belittling people for buying parts to make their project go a little smoother isn't cool.
-
