Budget Build 5.9 for a 71 Scamp

[rumblefish360]

Understand. But how do they test the depth of the heat treat?

I don’t remember. I read about it a while back which was an interesting read that I am so sorry, can not repeat because I didn’t retain it.

But I do remember the depths were like a sneeze of nothing deep. It actually seemed laughable. But it works.

Considering you can have a cam cut really heavy and have it heat treated again and perform great, I see no big deal in regrinding cams and cranks and then re heat treated again them.

 

[remytherat]

How do they test the depth of the heat treat? Do you know?

I think it’s probably mostly gone, at least off the base circle. That said, I think the concern is laughable with
1. roller lifters
2. low spring pressure
3. low rpm
4. not very aggressive profile
5. casual use application

The reality is that you never hear about regrind roller failures that have anything to do with the cam itself.

In fairness to the company, they totally have a right to not want to take on that risk.

 

[CudaJason]

I used a Carter P90091 fuel pump on my Duster and mounted it right above the tank sending unit and routed the fuel hose kind of looped around to hook to the factory hard line. It works fine with no regulator. It's made for use with a carburetor and its quiet or at least I can't hear it with my bad ears.

That’s a great pump. I have used Carter electric pumps for years and that 90091 I have in my 39 ford with a early Vette 283, I have almost 45,000 miles on it and it’s been on there almost 6 years, no issues, and yeah it’s whisper quiet.

If you’re gonna use an electric pumps, wire in a switch that you hide somewhere that switches the ground for the fuel pump relay. That way if you are gonna work on it and need to turn the key on, you can switch the pump off. Plus it’s a little extra security. If someone tries to steal it, they are only getting as far as what fuel is in the carb.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I'd try to find a pair of the old Mopar Performance steel shim head gaskets. They go down to like .018" - .020".

 

[340sFastback]

I'd try to find a pair of the old Mopar Performance steel shim head gaskets. They go down to like .018" - .020".

Yeah while its all apart get some thin head gaskets on there for that compression bump.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I don’t remember. I read about it a while back which was an interesting read that I am so sorry, can not repeat because I didn’t retain it.

But I do remember the depths were like a sneeze of nothing deep. It actually seemed laughable. But it works.

Considering you can have a cam cut really heavy and have it heat treated again and perform great, I see no big deal in regrinding cams and cranks and then re heat treated again them.

I think it’s probably mostly gone, at least off the base circle. That said, I think the concern is laughable with
1. roller lifters
2. low spring pressure
3. low rpm
4. not very aggressive profile
5. casual use application

The reality is that you never here about regrind roller failures that have anything to do with the cam itself.

In fairness to the company, they totally have a right to not want to take on that risk.

So researching this a bit, the short answer is, they use a diamond tipped tool pressed in to the surface at varying pressures and create a curve of the hardness compared to depth of the indentation left by the tool. Another method is to cut a cross section, an oblique taper, or a stepped cut of the part and observe. Different testing for different methods of hardening, case, surface, etc. The end result is there is no way to tell the depth of the heat treat on a cam without destroying it in the process. Seems to me a company that regrinds cams should be heat treating them after the fact.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Below is a screen shot from another forum where UD Harold (look him up if you don’t know who he is) answered a question regarding cutting cams and heat treating. Interesting.

 

[remytherat]

Someone should drive a fairly deep regrind 300,000 miles to see if it really makes a difference. Me?

I'll report back in thirty years.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Someone should drive a fairly deep regrind 300,000 miles to see if it really makes a difference. Me?

I'll report back in thirty years.

 

[junkyardhero]

Someone should drive a fairly deep regrind 300,000 miles to see if it really makes a difference. Me?

I'll report back in thirty years.

i'll take care of that for ya...

*laughs*

 

[junkyardhero]

i thought that ken up at oregon had said that most of the mopar cams were hardened fairly deep, like nearly thru & thru.

or at least that was my recollection? i don't know, don't quote me on it... i may have slept since then...

 

[michiganpat]

i thought that ken up at oregon had said that most of the mopar cams were hardened fairly deep, like nearly thru & thru.

or at least that was my recollection? i don't know, don't quote me on it... i may have slept since then...

I know bullet told me that 20 years ago about my LA roller.....maybe they had different experiences with magnum rollers....

 

[Mopar Sam]

Someone should drive a fairly deep regrind 300,000 miles to see if it really makes a difference. Me?

I'll report back in thirty years.

Did you miss this post? .575 lift That was checked with a solid checking lifter and the actual lunati valvesprings. Maybe not 300,000 miles, but a bunch.

It was built in 2019, and has been his only transportation the whole time.

It is the white truck that he is scraping ice on in this video.

 

[mopowers]

i thought that ken up at oregon had said that most of the mopar cams were hardened fairly deep, like nearly thru & thru.

or at least that was my recollection? i don't know, don't quote me on it... i may have slept since then...

I called Oregon cams earlier this year to inquire about a regrind for my roller LA 408. Ken (I believe his name was?) advised against it because I told him I was looking for something pretty mild - around 230/236 @ .050 and .345" lobe lift and that was outside of what he'd recommend for a regrind. He said that would eliminate the surface hardening from the stock cam, even though the majority of the grinding would be on the base circle side of the lobe. He told me that the hardening on stock roller cams is pretty shallow and recommends VERY conservative spring pressures when they are used because of it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

i thought that ken up at oregon had said that most of the mopar cams were hardened fairly deep, like nearly thru & thru.

or at least that was my recollection? i don't know, don't quote me on it... i may have slept since then...

He did. Says they are hardened slam to the core center.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I called Oregon cams earlier this year to inquire about a regrind for my roller LA 408. Ken (I believe his name was?) advised against it because I told him I was looking for something pretty mild - around 230/236 @ .050 and .345" lobe lift and that was outside of what he'd recommend for a regrind. He said that would eliminate the surface hardening from the stock cam, even though the majority of the grinding would be on the base circle side of the lobe. He told me that the hardening on stock roller cams is pretty shallow and recommends VERY conservative spring pressures when they are used because of it.

The roller cores are different somehow. I have a BIG Cleveland solid roller I'd like to regrind to something much smaller, but Ken said it could be done, but it'd have to be rehardened and that would be cost prohibitive compared to another cam.

 

[ScampNYC]

Hey, ordering some bearings off Rock Auto.
Which crank bearings would you get?

 

[MidnightSwinger]

King would be my first choice, but I’ve had no issues with sealed power bearings.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Hey, ordering some bearings off Rock Auto.
Which crank bearings would you get?
View attachment 1716480243

Use the clevite MS1266p

 

[TT5.9mag]

Hey, ordering some bearings off Rock Auto.
Which crank bearings would you get?
View attachment 1716480243

What was the clearance with the old bearings you took out?

 

[ScampNYC]

Use the clevite MS1266p

Cool. Would you recommend the clevite P series (CB481P8) for the connecting rod bearings as well? Thanks.

Haven't checked the old bearings yet, I won't place the order for new bearings until I do.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Cool. Would you recommend the clevite P series (CB481P8) for the connecting rod bearings as well? Thanks.

Haven't checked the old bearings yet, I won't place the order for new bearings until I do.

Yes I would. The clevite p series is an excellent bearing.
I use a different bearing (and manufacturer, King) for very high hp stuff but for stock up to about 500hp and depending on usage, I use the P series clevite.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Hey, ordering some bearings off Rock Auto.
Which crank bearings would you get?
View attachment 1716480243

Whatever's on sale.

 

[Mean416]

Ok folks, I am about done with the engine tear down.

My plan is to send the block and heads to the machine shop. Tell me if I have this right:

Block:

• Hot tank
• Clean up head surface
• Light hone on bores
• Replace cam bearings. What cam bearings should I get?

Heads:

• Hot tank
• Magnaflux for cracks
• If no cracks:
  • A. Just a light pass to clean up/flatten the deck
  • B. Mill some meat off the heads to raise CR?
• Valve job
• Should I have them install new springs? Or should I just do that at home?

Random:

• What main bearings should I order?
• What rod bearings should I order?
• I've done an engine build before (a 440) and did the rings, main, and rod bearings at home, but should I just have the machine shop do it?
• Anything else I should remember or consider before the machine shop trip? Like, should I bring him freeze plugs, galley plugs, etc?

If someone else hasn't mentioned it ...

Bring your cam with you to the shop. Tell them to make sure it spins freely after the cam bearing installation. Make sure you check this BEFORE you start putting the short block together.

 

[ScampNYC]

If someone else hasn't mentioned it ...

Bring your cam with you to the shop. Tell them to make sure it spins freely after the cam bearing installation. Make sure you check this BEFORE you start putting the short block together.

Oh interesting... so should I do that before or after I get the cam back from the regrind? I was hoping to bring the block to the machine shop and send the cam out at the same time!