dyno numbers

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dukeboy440

dukeboy440

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anyone have an comparison dyno numbers of a 360 with a holley street dominator intake compared to say a Performer or an RPM? I searched google but couldnt find anything that included the street dom in their comparisons.
 
I'd say that the Street Dominator would be considered small, compared to the Eddy Performer, no comparison to an RPM . Street Dominator is a good 273/318 intake.
 
RPM would have slightly higher HP and pulls to higher RPMs, street dominator and performer are both good street intakes for low-RPM torque, and probably really close to each other for dyno numbers. I like the Performer for a 273/318 street intake.
 
thanks, hopefully someone has some numbers.
 
On the street, with a 268* cam,a decent Dcr, and a 2800Plus TC,and with any gear 3.55 and up,and especially with 255 tires; In other words, in a typical combo,
you will be hard pressed to feel the difference. Just bolt on what you got, and let her rip.
If you are looking for a number, well, that's another story.....
And when you finally make traction with 295s well, then the AirGap is gonna show it's worth.
With a bit more cam, the power curve will move up, and the wide-ratio tranny will want to be shifted a little higher than this manifold wants to go. Again, on the street, this is no biggie, cuz with 3.55s or smaller, this rpm will put you up past the speed limit anyway.60mph =6400 with those 255s and 3.55 gears
The HolleySD has been stated to be about 2000 to 6000, which is about 1000rpm better on top, than the factory iron and it might be 1000 rpm lazy on the bottom. Hence the 2800TC.
Sorry I cannot better answer your question.
 
I dont think anyone wanted to waste a set of gaskets and gas on the dyno for a Holley SD....lol
 
AJ/FormS said:
On the street, with a 268* cam,a decent Dcr, and a 2800Plus TC,and with any gear 3.55 and up,and especially with 255 tires; In other words, in a typical combo,
you will be hard pressed to feel the difference. Just bolt on what you got, and let her rip.
If you are looking for a number, well, that's another story.....
And when you finally make traction with 295s well, then the AirGap is gonna show it's worth.
With a bit more cam, the power curve will move up, and the wide-ratio tranny will want to be shifted a little higher than this manifold wants to go. Again, on the street, this is no biggie, cuz with 3.55s or smaller, this rpm will put you up past the speed limit anyway.60mph =6400 with those 255s and 3.55 gears
The HolleySD has been stated to be about 2000 to 6000, which is about 1000rpm better on top, than the factory iron and it might be 1000 rpm lazy on the bottom. Hence the 2800TC.
Sorry I cannot better answer your question.
Click to expand...
thanks for the tips.

Here's the situation, I have a 408, its an older 408 done in the early 90s, its in my 78 powerwagon, it was done by my uncle and grandfather back then. I have it now, it has a little over 860 miles on the engine. I run it about once a month or so. It's in the body work resto stage now. it has a 4 speed, 4wd and has 4.56 gears on 33s..... but they stuck a plain jane Edlebrock performer intake on it. I feel it's limiting the engine quite a bit, so I acquired a holley street dominator for free essentially, thought I'd try it on there if it made a difference. Course I may open up the ports which from my research are the limiting factor of the street dominator and supposedly it comes to life when that work is done.

cam shaft is an Edelbrock, Duration 270, Lift .420/.420, holly 750 carb on top. Compression ratio is right at 10.5:1, just a shade under. Heads are stock with larger valves and an angled valve job done by a local racing shop. Cam is set 5 degrees retard. I forget what the total timing is. but it seems to fall flat after about 3500 or around 4000. Pulls hard till then. But when you're running 4.56 gears, you're RPMs are up there, which is one reason I don't drive it much. According to both my uncle and grandfather, the performer was the only intake they could find locally back then. we live in BFE with no performance shop options really, back then or now.
 
I just remembered something; About 10 years ago, an acquaintance of mine installed one of those onto his 360 into a 69 Satellite stripper street car. He ran my old 292/508/108 stick, an automatic and 4.10s. He loved it
No he didn't dyno it, and if he hadda it wouldn't have helped you anyway.
Dyno's only tell you what the engine is capable of,in exactly one state of operation,namely.WOT. And the pull rarely goes much below 3500rpm, maybe 3200 occasionally with a smaller cam.
So how often,on the street are you at WOT from say 30/35 mph to 55/60 mph? I can only speak for myself, and say;very seldom. The run is usually from 30/35 to 45/50. The tires hardly stick at all below 30,and the speed limits in town are usually 35 to 45/50. So that is the parameter for me;30/35 to 45/50 . Almost any manifold will pull well in this zone. This is about 3000/3500 to 4500/5000,with 3.55s.

Oh I see we were posting at near the same time
 
AJ/FormS said:
I just remembered something; About 10 years ago, an acquaintance of mine installed one of those onto his 360 into a 69 Satellite stripper street car. He ran my old 292/508/108 stick, an automatic and 4.10s. He loved it
No he didn't dyno it, and if he hadda it wouldn't have helped you anyway.
Dyno's only tell you what the engine is capable of,in exactly one state of operation,namely.WOT. And the pull rarely goes much below 3500rpm, maybe 3200 occasionally with a smaller cam.
So how often,on the street are you at WOT from say 30/35 mph to 55/60 mph? I can only speak for myself, and say;very seldom. The run is usually from 30/35 to 45/50. The tires hardly stick at all below 30,and the speed limits in town are usually 35 to 45/50. So that is the parameter for me;30/35 to 45/50 . Almost any manifold will pull well in this zone. This is about 3000/3500 to 4500/5000,with 3.55s.

Oh I see we were posting at near the same time
Click to expand...
very true.
 
You are geared for about 3000rpm = 65mph
This would be the same as if I had 3.73s with 27s
Your problem is not the intake, it's that lil cam! And the 4*retard is not helping.
At 10.5Scr, you need to let it breath with a lot more cam.And a 408 better have headers, and a freeflowing exhaust..
I'm willing to bet that that 270cam with it's small lift specs has some really long ramps, and this is not what your 408 wants. Of course the heads are the real question?Can they take 550 lift?The Scr is about right for a 270, but a faster 270 or a 280, with a lot more lift, would really wake it up.
Yeah ok, I just checked; that cam if it is the Edelbrock2177, it specs out at 270/270/110in at 106 and the 050 numbers are 204/204, so those are about the slowest ramps you are ever gonna see. That cam will perform about the same as a stock 360 2bbl cam(252*), or even less, but idle with a hint of lope in a 360.
I think that combo would like a DP carb,too.
The tranny ratios might have a teensey bit to do with it, if it is a truck tranny with a deep low, cuz then it is basically a 3 spd with a granny low. But the 408 should pull second and up, no problem.....
And the rear-gears are probably on the money for 33s.
Sorry;where is BFE and what is your local elevation there?
 
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dukeboy_318 said:
cam shaft is an Edelbrock, Duration 270, Lift .420/.420, holly 750 carb on top. Compression ratio is right at 10.5:1, just a shade under. Heads are stock with larger valves and an angled valve job done by a local racing shop. Cam is set 5 degrees retard. I forget what the total timing is. but it seems to fall flat after about 3500 or around 4000. Pulls hard till then. But when you're running 4.56 gears, you're RPMs are up there, which is one reason I don't drive it much. According to both my uncle and grandfather, the performer was the only intake they could find locally back then. we live in BFE with no performance shop options really, back then or now.
Click to expand...

An intake isn't going to help... that thing is a mess from your description.
 
AJ/FormS said:
You are geared for about 3000rpm = 65mph
This would be the same as if I had 3.73s with 27s
Your problem is not the intake, it's that lil cam! And the 4*retard is not helping.
At 10.5Scr, you need to let it breath with a lot more cam.And a 408 better have headers, and a freeflowing exhaust..
I'm willing to bet that that 270cam with it's small lift specs has some really long ramps, and this is not what your 408 wants. Of course the heads are the real question?Can they take 550 lift?The Scr is about right for a 270, but a faster 270 or a 280 would really wake it up.
The tranny ratios might have a teensey bit to do with it, if it is a truck tranny with a deep low. But the gears are probably on the money for 33s.
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It has a of flowtech headers and a 2.5 in dual exhaust with X pipe into glass packs of an unknown brand.

as for the heads, I honestly dont know. I know the springs came with the cam kit and are supposedly matched to that cam. What cam would you recommend? Or should I just take the 5 degrees retarded out and move it to 0?
 
Where is BFE?

How did the Holley street Dom feel vs. the performer?
 
That cam is SMALL! It's going to stop making any power in a head limited 408 at about 4500 if you are lucky.

Nothing you do will help until you change the camshaft. Too small, too much static compression, might be the reason it's in 5* retarded to try and keep it out of detonation. If all you do is idle around, might be ok.

I'd put a performer RPM or air gap on it for a manifold.
 
New cam and springs;retainers likely too... with some real lift like pushing .500". Duration is OK, depending on what you want to do with it, but it could stand some more duration with that gear, and with the higher SCR, you can afford some longer duration and not totally kill the lower end. I think I would consider a solid lifter type for this since it needs to be a revver with the rear. As said, make sure the valve set-up and guides can take more lift without spring bind or retainers hitting seals or guides. You need to start taking more care on those paramter beyond about .450-.460" lift.

Sounds like a relatively easy situation to step things up....
 
crackedback said:
That cam is SMALL! It's going to stop making any power in a head limited 408 at about 4500 if you are lucky.

Nothing you do will help until you change the camshaft. Too small, too much static compression, might be the reason it's in 5* retarded to try and keep it out of detonation. If all you do is idle around, might be ok.
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what cam specs would help it out?
 
Bigger... that's a cam for a grannies 318.

Even the old 284/484 mp cam would be a huge upgrade for performance.
 
You will need to measure your heads and see what lift they will accept. If you were able to find a machine shop to pump up the lift capability, that would be a huge step in the right direction. I see a 68* ICA working out nicely at sealevel, netting a Dcr of 8.2/165psi.
This 68*ICA is about 276* advertised, but the lift on that is still on the small side at .477 for a flat-tappet hydraulic. and the overlap might only be 58*, so to the fellow who recommended a swap to a solid is headed in the right direction.
I like the 20-230-1 Comp solid. The specs are 274/280/110in at 106, with lift of .502/.511 This will get you an ICA of 63*, which is a bit on the short side, and this cam will not like to be retarded either.So either the compression would need to be reduced a bit, or,the next one up is;
the comp solid lifter 20-231-4 with specs are 282/290/110in at 106 will get you a 67* ICA, and with 1.5 arms the lift is .520/.540.. Depending on your tranny type this could be a ton-O-fun. It will not like a granny gear with a huge 1-2 split.

There are of course many other off-the-shelf grinds that could work. I just chose the Comps on account of they are in my PC.
 
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that street dominator may surprise you, ive used it on both 318 and 340, 318 with 284/484 cam it would pull to 6700, on 340 now with lunati 701, pulls nice from bottom up to 5600, wifes car so i cant abuse it too much!
 
AJ/FormS said:
You will need to measure your heads and see what lift they will accept. If you were able to find a machine shop to pump up the lift capability, that would be a huge step in the right direction. I see a 68* ICA working out nicely at sealevel, netting a Dcr of 8.2/165psi.
This 68*ICA is about 276* advertised, but the lift on that is still on the small side at .477 for a flat-tappet hydraulic. and the overlap might only be 58*, so to the fellow who recommended a swap to a solid is headed in the right direction.
I like the 20-230-1 Comp solid. The specs are 274/280/110in at 106, with lift of .502/.511 This will get you an ICA of 63*, which is a bit on the short side, and this cam will not like to be retarded either.So either the compression would need to be reduced a bit, or,the next one up is;
the comp solid lifter 20-231-4 with specs are 282/290/110in at 106 will get you a 67* ICA, and with 1.5 arms the lift is .520/.540.. Depending on your tranny type this could be a ton-O-fun. It will not like a granny gear with a huge 1-2 split.

There are of course many other off-the-shelf grinds that could work. I just chose the Comps on account of they are in my PC.
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looks like
1 2 3 4 R
6.68 3.34 1.66 1.0 8.26
 
Yeah that's a granny first awright.
But with your 4.56/33s acting like 3.73/27s
Second gear should be a 12.46 starter gear. And that is good cuz it's a long way to the next gear. This is a 50% split, so if you buzz it up to 3600 in 3.34, it will drop in at 1800 into 1.66 gear. The next gear is not as bad with a 60% split; so again buzzing it up to 3600, the Rs will drop to 2160 into direct. This tranny will basically run as a 3 speed, with crawling, an option in that granny gear.It would act like a 6.68 x 3.73 = 25/1 starter gear, if you had a Dart with 3.73s and 27s.
So this combo will want a big engine with a strong bottom end. The big engine you got, but you will have to be a little careful with camming.To that end, I'd like to see the 274solid work, but the Scr might have to be lowered a bit. With open chamber heads,this is easily done with thicker headgaskets, cuz you don't have to worry about quench.Ima thinking an .060 gasket would drop the Scr to 10.25, and that would net a Dcr of 8.33/168psi@ sealevel. At 1000ft this would change to 8.1/162psi. Either of these should run on pumpgas.
Be sure to have enough carb and a free flowing exhaust. If you suspect an exhaust problem, measure the backpressure.
The comp 274 might look like just 4 degrees more duration. But to think that, would be an error. The 050 numbers tell us a lot about how an engine will perform. The 050 numbers are 204 for the Edelbrock versus 230 for the Comp274. This represents an effective difference of 26*of intake duration; and that represents about 4 to 5 cam changes in an apples to apples comparison.And there is almost no way to compare the overlap/scavenge cycles on these two cams;and the scavenge cycle can add a very significant amount of torque, when it gets going. The Edelbrock has 50* which sounds good until you realize that all of it exists at .050 or less lift. The Com274 lists 67* of overlap, with about 23* of it at over .050. Again, that is a huge jump.
So to conclude; there is no comparison in how these two cams will perform, when looking at just the intake durations. In the BIG picture;the Comp274 should make more cylinder pressure,more torque,an awful lot more horsepower, will rev a lot higher before nosing over, and cruising at 2400 or higher should make significantly better fuel mileage; once the tune is in.
 
Ow, I forgot this is in a truck with that gearing. It is essentially a 3 speed on the street. IMHO, keep the duration on the lower end and widen the LSA if possible and keep the lift high. All in the name of keeping the torque curve as wide as possible. I think I would be looking at something like the Lunati Voodoo 3020070 to keep the lift from being too much, and look at your static CR to make sure it is not too high. BTW, have you run compression numbers on the engine so we can see if it really is close to 10.5 SCR? If not, we can be off in the recommendations.

Edit to add: I see AJ posted as I was writing this.... looks like the same thought process: wider torque curve to plan on a 3 speed operation on the street. The more I think about it, I think this is really going to wake up and be fun.
 
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