I cannot endorse a 72 with a dead motor over a running driving car with disc brakes, big bolt pattern and probably a lot of other features the 72 doesn't have. It makes zero sense.
Early vs. Late dusters
- Thread starter Princess Valiant
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Much depends on the intent. The 75 makes more sense overall, but if the intent is to learn to drop a motor in, do the work, change a door and fender...all pretty easy stuff, then 72 as for all the reasons mentioned. Drum brakes and small pattern are fine for now, hell I still run them. Likely all the parts needed right there in the yard for what he needs. Absorb some knowledge from Cousin and maybe help reach the high stuff in the garage too...
sorry Raini, had to
sorry Raini, had to
stroked340
Well-Known Member
I prefer the '70-'71's but between those 2 I'd go with the '72 the '73 and up have ugly bumpers,grilles and that little "beak nose" along with the interiors not being as nice as the '70-'72's only thing I don't like about the '72's are those "generic" side markers Mopar put on everything after '71..
Tough call. I would get the 72 with the original 318 and sharkstooth grill. 8 3/4 Rear?
On the other hand the fold down seat is very nice to have and the disc brakes are a plus, but how is the 360 installed??? and will he be able to afford to feed it? 7 1/4 rear?
On the other hand the fold down seat is very nice to have and the disc brakes are a plus, but how is the 360 installed??? and will he be able to afford to feed it? 7 1/4 rear?
3forty
"Raw Power"
'70 to '72, nothing later.
Pull a torn down 318 in less than an hour. Take another running 318 and it's in the car in 2 hours, mounts tight. Now you have 6 full days and 21 hours to hook up a radiator, and wheel cylinders..... maybe a brake hose or 2. Ok, even a master cylinder. Did I say a week??? SHoot, let say 2 days..... lets drive !
No way I would buy a non running car for the same price as a similar running one.
72Duster440
Well-Known Member
Does he want a car to drive, or a car to wrench on before he can drive it? I enjoy wrenching and would buy the one that fits my end goal better, heck, I took a perfectly running car and tore it apart to swap everything over to a bare shell because it was a cleaner body. But if he is excited to get one and drive it, the running one makes more sense.
All of that may be reasonable for you and I, and many others who have done it enough times that we can get it done blindfolded with one arm tied behind our backs. The problem is that the potential buyer has little to no experience with this type of work and it can easily become overwhelming for a newbie. It's not fair or reasonable to expect Princess Valiant to do all of the work, though I have no doubt that she would be very willing to do so. Much better to start with a drivable project that a person can enjoy and work on when needed. Just my .02
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
So we're talking about a car for a 20-year-old with little to no past wrenching experience... When I was 16 and got my '70 Duster back in 2007 I was also in the same boat. I had lusted after a late-60s B-body but by then they were already overpriced in running condition. I basically had nobody at the time to help me learn how to wrench except my parents' neighbor across the street who was a Ford guy. So getting something running and driving was top priority.
I'm glad I did because I had a hard enough time being motivated to do all the work that it still needed. Sure it ran and drove but EVERYTHING was stock, old and worn-out. Took me a couple years to get it to where it was actually safe and fun to drive. If I had gotten a non-running car (which was out of the question for my dad anyway as he was the one buying) there's a good chance it would have just sat until my dad called a tow truck and had it hauled to a junkyard, or sold it.
A lot of us on here have the benefit of having grown up not only around family and friends who worked on cars but also in a time where wrenching on your own vehicles was still "normal". Nowadays most people under the age of 40 hardly know how to use a socket wrench or change their own oil and if they have car troubles they call AAA and have it towed to a shop and pay out the *** for shoddy work.
Starting from zero and diving into an old car you don't fully understand can be extremely intimidating. If it was a car for me now I'd go with the 72, but for 16-year-old me or a guy like your cousin, 75 all the way without a doubt. No point getting the "cooler" earlier car if it doesn't run and ends up sitting and wrecks your cousin's confidence and motivation.
I'm glad I did because I had a hard enough time being motivated to do all the work that it still needed. Sure it ran and drove but EVERYTHING was stock, old and worn-out. Took me a couple years to get it to where it was actually safe and fun to drive. If I had gotten a non-running car (which was out of the question for my dad anyway as he was the one buying) there's a good chance it would have just sat until my dad called a tow truck and had it hauled to a junkyard, or sold it.
A lot of us on here have the benefit of having grown up not only around family and friends who worked on cars but also in a time where wrenching on your own vehicles was still "normal". Nowadays most people under the age of 40 hardly know how to use a socket wrench or change their own oil and if they have car troubles they call AAA and have it towed to a shop and pay out the *** for shoddy work.
Starting from zero and diving into an old car you don't fully understand can be extremely intimidating. If it was a car for me now I'd go with the 72, but for 16-year-old me or a guy like your cousin, 75 all the way without a doubt. No point getting the "cooler" earlier car if it doesn't run and ends up sitting and wrecks your cousin's confidence and motivation.
Most 20 year olds are not as mechanically inclined as 20 year olds 20 years ago, and even less so than 20 year olds 40 years ago.
Add in a college kid budget, which means he has even less money now than a kid in college 20 years ago and buying a non running car to get started with? He’s probably going to be gung ho the first weekend or two and then lose interest/funds soon after.
I’ve seen more threads on here of late teenagers and kids in their early 20’s still in school buying a project car only to sell it on here (usually for a loss) after they realise they are in over their heads.
Folks chiming in here about pulling a 318 in a couple of hours and banging in a running 318 is fine if you have you‘re own shop/tools/expérience already. This kid has never pulled an engine before. The time it takes you will take at least double the time for this kid. Swapping over brakes? That’s gonna take the kid a while to do. Does the kid have a garage/carport to store the car in?
And buying a non running car since it has a shark tooth grill and 8 3/4? That doesn’t help get the car on the road any faster and it won’t mean much to the kid as he looks at a non running investment after several weeks of ownership.
If he wants to dip his toes in the classic car arena, at least go for the running classic (’75). So much lower risk given the age/stage this kid is at in life.
Add in a college kid budget, which means he has even less money now than a kid in college 20 years ago and buying a non running car to get started with? He’s probably going to be gung ho the first weekend or two and then lose interest/funds soon after.
I’ve seen more threads on here of late teenagers and kids in their early 20’s still in school buying a project car only to sell it on here (usually for a loss) after they realise they are in over their heads.
Folks chiming in here about pulling a 318 in a couple of hours and banging in a running 318 is fine if you have you‘re own shop/tools/expérience already. This kid has never pulled an engine before. The time it takes you will take at least double the time for this kid. Swapping over brakes? That’s gonna take the kid a while to do. Does the kid have a garage/carport to store the car in?
And buying a non running car since it has a shark tooth grill and 8 3/4? That doesn’t help get the car on the road any faster and it won’t mean much to the kid as he looks at a non running investment after several weeks of ownership.
If he wants to dip his toes in the classic car arena, at least go for the running classic (’75). So much lower risk given the age/stage this kid is at in life.
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
Well, there's 3 or 4 ways to look at this, and they are all viable...
Scenario one is to let him drive one of your A-Bodies and see if he likes them at all for the long term as a driver.
Scenario two is REALLY how much interest does he have in learning and working on an older car?
Scenario three is does he want a reliable driver and doesn't care about the style and resale value?
Scenario four is, and this is important, do you have all of the parts to supply him for his McDonalds budget and are you going to do all of the work for nothing to help him out and maybe teach him about working on cars?
This is a tough call and is not as cut and dried as in value in the long run etc.
My instinct is to get his feet wet with the '75 and see how that goes.
There's nothing like a running driving car to keep his interest going...
Scenario one is to let him drive one of your A-Bodies and see if he likes them at all for the long term as a driver.
Scenario two is REALLY how much interest does he have in learning and working on an older car?
Scenario three is does he want a reliable driver and doesn't care about the style and resale value?
Scenario four is, and this is important, do you have all of the parts to supply him for his McDonalds budget and are you going to do all of the work for nothing to help him out and maybe teach him about working on cars?
This is a tough call and is not as cut and dried as in value in the long run etc.
My instinct is to get his feet wet with the '75 and see how that goes.
There's nothing like a running driving car to keep his interest going...
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
I think that it's awesome that you are helping your cousin get started in the hobby. I'd say that the '75 would be the best way to go since it's a running /driving car. I know how it can be looking / waiting for parts.
Valiant Princess as a guide, I have confidence. Let me tell ya, I think too many are selling the 20 year old a little short .... I can't think of a better way to build confidence than to do a simple (and it is simple) engine swap. Count the bolts..... we are talking tightening approx 25 bolts for bell housing, flexplate, motor mount and exhaust manifolds??? If 25 bolts has this kid in flight, then buy him a civic.
It's not about selling anyone short. It's about making the smarter choice.
Yeah, YOU can do it. You think a newbie with no experience and no tools can do that?
No.
I saw your video with the white Magnum (Or whatever it was) that had low oil pressure or bad crank bearings. You took awhile to figure that out and you have experience. This guy does not. To seasoned guys like us with decent income and money in the bank, we can spend our way out of trouble.
dibbons
Well-Known Member
Personally, I would purchase the '72 for myself. But the youngster should decide for himself. Not a bad choice either way. But when it comes to classic cars, the older the better (less problems mechanically speaking because less so-called "technology").
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
This is true. I know that most here won't agree with me but I think that since he's on a tight budget and just getting started in the hobby that a car that has parts that are easier and more affordable to find might be the way for him to go. I only say this because most guys want to be out enjoying their cars and not waiting on saving up or looking for parts. I've seen a lot of guys get discouraged when they learn that the parts for their car is either hard to find and or expensive. I'm not trying to be negative just my opinion
She asked our opinions, I gave mine. I stayed right on par with the question the OP asked, and picked one of the 2 cars offered as choices. And again, I would suggest to buy the '72 and I believe in a week (ok, even 2 weeks) that car is driving - with Princess helping. That is my take on what she posted
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I like your enthusiasm but I disagree with your outlook.
With the parts I have here, I can have it running today.
When I was 20, it could have taken me a year.
You are clearly not aware of how a "learning curve" works. Some learn faster than others.
I learned long ago that when training someone, it can be very insulting to them to hear the experienced person say Oh, that is easy, all you have to do is blah blah....
This is because as they encounter problems, they remember how "easy" it is supposed to be and start to get discouraged as they get confused.
Yes...The '72 could be wrenched back together in fairly short time in the hands of an experienced owner. You think She wants to assume full involvement here at HER place using all of HER tools for this guy?
If not, the kid will be overwhelmed trying to do this on his own with just phone calls for guidance.
WE know a torque sequence.
WE know to clean mating surfaces.
WE know how to gap spark plugs, to bleed brakes and to torque lug nuts to a "star pattern" because we learned all of those things over time.
In time, this kid may surpass any one of us in mechanical ability but now, today, he is just starting out.
With the parts I have here, I can have it running today.
When I was 20, it could have taken me a year.
You are clearly not aware of how a "learning curve" works. Some learn faster than others.
I learned long ago that when training someone, it can be very insulting to them to hear the experienced person say Oh, that is easy, all you have to do is blah blah....
This is because as they encounter problems, they remember how "easy" it is supposed to be and start to get discouraged as they get confused.
Yes...The '72 could be wrenched back together in fairly short time in the hands of an experienced owner. You think She wants to assume full involvement here at HER place using all of HER tools for this guy?
If not, the kid will be overwhelmed trying to do this on his own with just phone calls for guidance.
WE know a torque sequence.
WE know to clean mating surfaces.
WE know how to gap spark plugs, to bleed brakes and to torque lug nuts to a "star pattern" because we learned all of those things over time.
In time, this kid may surpass any one of us in mechanical ability but now, today, he is just starting out.
I assume this was to me, if not then sorry. As for Princess, she's already involved and I didn't see where she said she is walking away from it all after purchase. So as far as assuming, lets not assume. LOL. You don't think I'm aware of learning curves?? ok, I'll leave that alone. Let him buy the "running" car and see how much he still has to work on it.... maybe more than you or I or anyone thinks, huh?? So he buys the running car, leaves him sitting on the 2nd day.... Never mind. Good day !!!!
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
being 20 and just getting into things I'd say the smart idea to get the running one.
72 will always be more desirable though. at 20 I'd buy the 72 and just take longer to drive it.
72 will always be more desirable though. at 20 I'd buy the 72 and just take longer to drive it.
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
That's very possible, but you have to figure in what could go wrong. I had a/6 with transmission in front of the car, 6 hours later the car was running and ready for the road and I did it myself. But I had everything there, ready to goShe asked our opinions, I gave mine. I stayed right on par with the question the OP asked, and picked one of the 2 cars offered as choices. And again, I would suggest to buy the '72 and I believe in a week (ok, even 2 weeks) that car is driving - with Princess helping. That is my take on what she posted
Dan the man
Well-Known Member
The '72 is the better looking car for sure. But with lack of experience and money is why I said the '72. If they already didn't have a car, I would suggest a mustang or a nova simply because of the cost of parts
too many "what if's", to figure what could go wrong, Dan. What if the kid buys what he thinks is a good running Duster and it leaves him in the middle of nowhere on the second day because dirt got on the needle and seat? Or an electrical issue?? Again, too many "WHAT IF'S". HOW ABOUT THIS ONE : They have pollution inspection in Colorado, what if the car don't pass emission test ???????? oH bOY !!!!!! '75 SHOULD HAVE A CAT... DOES IT?? CHARCOAL CANISTER???? ALL HOOKED UP????
Now that I think about it more ..... FOR SURE THE 72 !!!!!!
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