Looking for experienced opinions on removing k-member.

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ProjectBazza

ProjectBazza

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All,

I'm working on a very good friend's '71 VG Valiant (a RH drive Australian car, think '69 Dart equivalent), and I had to remove the engine a few weeks ago (those issues are now resolved, and the engine is ready to go back in the car).

The engine bay and firewall were covered in oil and years of greasy filth (oil leaks, etc), so this morning I rolled it outside and pressure washed it. Here's where it's at right now:
IMG_4435.JPG


Now that everything is clean(-ish), I can see that the suspension bushings are cracked and/or rather nasty looking, the ball joint boots are all but gone, the steering is 50/50 (a couple good tie rod ends, the other two not so good), and the paint on the k-member is peeling off. Now, there is a "suspension and steering kit" of some sort from Australia in the trunk that (allegedly) has all of the pieces and parts needed to rebuild the front end, but it's just a bunch of parts in bags, none of which are labeled, so I have no idea how complete it is. (Or the quality of the parts, for that matter.)

The original intent with this project was to just get the engine running so they could enjoy the car again, but I'm on the fence right now as to how to continue, so I ask you fine people: How hard is it to take the k-member out so that I can replace the suspension and steering parts on a bench, or a platform of some sort, so that I don't have to roll around on the floor on my back? After all, I'm 58, 20 pounds overweight, have a bad back....and a bad knee....

Plus, I have no experience with torsion bar suspensions, so this would be a first for me.

But I do have a good engine hoist, two floor jacks, 6 jackstands, a lifetime collection of Snap-On, S-K, and Craftsman tools at my disposal, and a large enough space to work in.

This seems like the perfect time to do this work, but I'm just now sure if I want to dig into this project this far.

Opinions? Advice?

Thanks.

Jim

(Edit add: I just found the sticky thread about the LCA bushings near the top of the forum, and if it's relevant to this car, I have to admit this is something I'm probably not set-up to do myself.)
 
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The K-member is held in place with only four bolts, but the work becomes all the things that are attached to it. Remove two torsion bars (don't scratch them) by relaxing the LCAs. Unbolt the top of the shocks. Back-off steering coupler from box. Disconnect upper ball joints and brake lines. This method allows the removal of the K-member with the suspension attached (very heavy). Now on the ground, you can disassemble the components to clean/repair/replace/paint. I assume you have a press for the bushings and special sockets for the ball joints. You should inventory your front end parts before you start work. I don't mean to scare you, but this job is not for the faint-hearted.
 
Removing the k member means driving the torsion bars out which can be difficult (there are special tools for this). The hardest part for me was removing the LCA bushings. Even the upper arm bolts were tough to get out. Its a lot of bull work.
 
Is the person you are doing the work for requesting you do this? You might find a lot of other things need attention once you get it all apart. These things have a way of snowballing. But I’ve done it several times myself . It’s just basic mechanics.
 
Obtain plugs for the brake hoses, and since this is an overseas car, no idea if they are American 3/16 inverted flare or not.

Since you surely will replace the upper arm bushings, separate the ball joint and remove the upper arm. This now leaves the spindle, steering linkage, and so on attached to the LCA.

Remove T bars

Remove/ disconnect steering column. There is a roll pin in the coupler near the box, and bolts from the column floor plate into the floor, plus a clamp mechanism up under the dash, remove the obvious lower trim plate,

Separate electrical connections, look for ground which should undo with the upper clamp nuts,

Disconnect shift linkage and pull column, or pull up and lay out of way

Safely block up car and K and undo 4 obvious large bolts. I never even try. I just reach for the antique I/R 3/4" drive air impact

If you do not have a service manual, wander over to MyMopar.com and download the closest one you see
 
I would do everything it needs now while the engine is out. It will make it a lot easier to install the engine too. Do it like the factory did, as a unit, with the engine and transmission bolted together and mounted on the K-member. The only thing out of the ordinary (at least for us Yanks) is your steering setup. You're on your own there, so, someone with RHD experience would be helpful in that respect. It shouldn't be all that hard to take inventory of all the wear parts to make sure you have everything before you start. Mostly it's basic tools to do the job. The special tools you will need is an upper ball joint socket, and a press or big vice for bushings. They make a tool kit for all those, but, with enough sockets, it isn't needed. No need for a special tool for the torsion bars. Just relieve the tension, unbolt the front end of the strut rod, unbolt and pop the lower ball joint loose from the control arm, remove the clip out of the rear torsion bar anchor, and with a rubber hammer, drive the whole works toward the rear. The torsion bar will slide back out of the rear anchor and you can just pull it out of the control arm. Just don't scar up the surface of the torsion bars. That might cause a weak spot and future fracture. Any good factory service manual around that year will give you the info you need to do the job.
 
I love how all the grease and grime actually protects the paint under it.

It looks freshly painted
 
I think I talked myself out of doing this today, for several reasons. First and foremost, we just got the news that Bazza is getting out of the hospital and actually going home this weekend! He's not fully healed by any means, and his recuperation and P/T is going to take quite some time, but he absolutely loves this car, and I can't help but think what a strong motivator it would be for him to have it back in his own garage so he can see it every day.

Plus, we always said we'd shoot for Labor Day to get this done and bring it back home to him, and while the front end does need work, I don't think I can get this done in-time to meet that deadline. After all, I still work a 9 to 5, and have a one hour commute each way, which means there's not a heckuva lot of time to devote to this each night.

Secondly, I have to admit I'm a little scared-off after reading the LCA sticky thread, as well as the mention of "bull work" and special tools. If this was my car, and I had all the time in the world to do this, I think I'd dive right in, as it needs to be done. But as jomoper said:

jomoper said:
Is the person you are doing the work for requesting you do this? You might find a lot of other things need attention once you get it all apart. These things have a way of snowballing.
Click to expand...

They already have (snowballed), and that's another thing I'm afraid of.

As for a Shop Manual, I do have this:



IMG_4436.JPG


The pages appear to be photocopies of photocopies, but it's the best/only Manual that Bazza has ever found for his car.

No, I think I'm going to wire brush/sand what I can on the k-member, paint it with POR-15, and call 'er good. This car needs to get back Home, and there are more things I need to fix before Labor Day to make that happen.

Dana67Dart said:
I love how all the grease and grime actually protects the paint under it.

It looks freshly painted
Click to expand...

That's exactly what my wife said! The Before and After pix really don't do it justice, but in-person the difference is amazing!
 
Here's the "other way around. It IS NOT really that big a deal to block up the engine, and drop the K out the bottom, with the engine still in the car. I did mine on my hoist, but so far as the engine, I used blocking, padded by old rags, jacked on the frame rails and fender aprons, and used multiple motorcycle type tie down straps as "hoists" to work it down or up into place.
 
ProjectBazza said:
All,

I'm working on a very good friend's '71 VG Valiant (a RH drive Australian car, think '69 Dart equivalent), and I had to remove the engine a few weeks ago (those issues are now resolved, and the engine is ready to go back in the car).

The engine bay and firewall were covered in oil and years of greasy filth (oil leaks, etc), so this morning I rolled it outside and pressure washed it. Here's where it's at right now:
View attachment 1716123388

Now that everything is clean(-ish), I can see that the suspension bushings are cracked and/or rather nasty looking, the ball joint boots are all but gone, the steering is 50/50 (a couple good tie rod ends, the other two not so good), and the paint on the k-member is peeling off. Now, there is a "suspension and steering kit" of some sort from Australia in the trunk that (allegedly) has all of the pieces and parts needed to rebuild the front end, but it's just a bunch of parts in bags, none of which are labeled, so I have no idea how complete it is. (Or the quality of the parts, for that matter.)

The original intent with this project was to just get the engine running so they could enjoy the car again, but I'm on the fence right now as to how to continue, so I ask you fine people: How hard is it to take the k-member out so that I can replace the suspension and steering parts on a bench, or a platform of some sort, so that I don't have to roll around on the floor on my back? After all, I'm 58, 20 pounds overweight, have a bad back....and a bad knee....

Plus, I have no experience with torsion bar suspensions, so this would be a first for me.

But I do have a good engine hoist, two floor jacks, 6 jackstands, a lifetime collection of Snap-On, S-K, and Craftsman tools at my disposal, and a large enough space to work in.

This seems like the perfect time to do this work, but I'm just now sure if I want to dig into this project this far.

Opinions? Advice?

Thanks.

Jim

(Edit add: I just found the sticky thread about the LCA bushings near the top of the forum, and if it's relevant to this car, I have to admit this is something I'm probably not set-up to do myself.)
Click to expand...

I've done this.

As you have said, the suspension system is suspect so will have to be addressed anyway. It is much easier to do this work now without the engine in the car. Forget the timeline. Whatever time it takes, its gonna take. Sounds like you have the tools and ability so maybe you can get someone (younger perhaps ? ) to help you.

Cutting corners or putting off the inevitable repairs is a half assed and unsafe way to put your friend back in his car.

Do it once, do it right and you guys will be much happier with the result.

Unintended side effect... its usually cheaper!!
 
I did my 69 barracuda front end about 5 years ago. I replaced everything but the lower control arm bushings, they still looked good. It is not Brain surgery, but very physical difficult work. I used rental tools from Oreilly. I torched the rubber out of the bushings and removed the metal parts with a hammer and chisel. Put the new bushings in the freezer to shrink them. Lots of improvising if you want to do it on the cheap.

If you can do it a few hours at a time, it makes it easier.

If you want to limit your time and effort, make it functional, not perfect. Only replace the hard stuff that is bad. Leave the rest alone.

If I do one again, I will buy a harbor freight press.
 
Mike69cuda said:
I

If you want to limit your time and effort, make it functional, not perfect. Only replace the hard stuff that is bad. Leave the rest alone.
Click to expand...
I somewhat disagree with front end, simply because so much of it is a Chinese puzzle, AKA you have to take much of it apart to do some of it. I recommend you dig in and DO IT ALL if it is a situation of unknown past, unknown wear, you don't want to do a bunch of work and then HAVE to tear it apart later because it won't drive right or wears tires.

I'm 75, and IT IS a LOT of work. You think A bodies are bad, You try a Dana 60 (actually TWO) on a Ram 4x4

If you think this is a lot of hard work, scan through this. Now that I've done this, I cannot believe I ever started

www.forabodiesonly.com

The dummy and the diesel.........The Grey Whale

For those "newer guys," Del has had an entire "school" of whales, or do they come in pods? White Whale I, II, III, "Mini Whale" (Dakota) and now the "Grey Whale" is an 01 Dodge 2500 Cummins TWO wheel drive. LET'S convert it to FOUR wheel drive!! So today I drug home...
www.forabodiesonly.com www.forabodiesonly.com
 
Yeah Del, I kind of agree. I just don’t have the tolerance for all of it anymore in one sitting, even being several years younger than you. There are two main “subsystems “ to me.

#1 All ball joints, upper bushings, tie rod ends, pitman arm, idler arm.

#2 Lower control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, torsion bars.

You can do #1 or #2 kind of independently with out too much repeat effort, but doing it all at once, that is a real manly chore…..

I have been bitten by the “snowball“ effect so many times, I have tried to take more of a targeted approach on these old cars to make it more manageable. It would b great if I could drive them at least as much as I work on them…..
 
After putting some time and thought into this I've decided to "do right" by the car, and my buddy, and do the whole da** thing; Front suspension, steering, and even the rear suspension. After all, there's a kit in the trunk that seems pretty complete, and the engine is out, so as the saying goes, "In for a penny....".

I just ordered a torsion bar tool from Mancini Racing a few minutes ago (nice guys on the phone!), so obviously I won't be getting around to doing that for a few days, and another member here has graciously offered to do the LCA work for me, so I think I've got the two largest issues covered.

(I think.)

Thanks for the input, and the gentle nudges, everyone!

Jim
 
harrisonm said:
@ProjectBazza, you do not need to remove the K member to do a complete front suspension rebuild. I have done it on an A Body several times.
Click to expand...
I agree harrisonm. I would not remove the K member just to rebuild the suspension. Even painting it can be done in the car. If you are swapping out the motor size (6cll,A, B or RB bock), then yes. Paint, repair and reinstall. I think any "A" body manual (67 and up) would work on the basis of R & R. The parts list will be different depending on the year or applications. Example: Disc or drum brakes, 9 inch or 10 inch. Manual or power steering. Sway bar or not.
 
Amazing no rust under the Master Cylinder, since they usually leak glycol fluid which is a great paint remover. Your down-under suspension likely has minimal corrosion, so should be easy-peasy to take apart.

Re removing the T-bars. There is a wire C-clip at the rear of the T-bar anchor you must remove to slide it back thru the hex hole. If primo, a plastic cap is still over that. The grease cap there is just to prevent rust. The earliest cars didn't have that, which made them collect road salt (bad corrosion). Forget a clamp tool for the T-bar. I've just removed the pivot bolt nut, then pried the LCA back with a crowbar, which pushes the T-bar back thru the hex mount. Then tap the LCA forward and the T-bar should drop out of the front anchor (reassemble w/ grease there too to avoid corrosion. Several posts about changing the LCA bushing. You can manage without a shop press, using bolts washers and spools for a similar effect (buy Grade 8 fine-thread bolt). Best trick is to gut the rubber by whacking the center out or burning it out (nasty). Then get the empty shell out by cutting mostly thru longitudinally, then peel it inward w/ hammer and chisel. I recall cutting the inner shell off the pivot bolt, but might have used a shop press.

Once you remove the UCA, LCA, and drag strut, I don't think any other suspension parts are on the K-frame so seems no need to unbolt it. Use the Moog improved strut rod bushings (rubber disks on both sides). The OE 1-piece style is a pain to work thru the hole.
 
Did this very thing on a 68 Dart. With proper planning it isn't too bad. I'm 79 and it took me 6 days to complete. I drew everything out got all the parts needed jacked up the car on a Saturday and drove it out of the garage on Friday afternoon. BUT it was a lot of long days and not a whole lot of fun but it was well worth the effort.
 
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