McCain/Obama tax plans....

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It's not the govts responsibility to teach my kid or ANY kid about religion, god or any other deity. That's a parents responsibility. There are plenty of people in this country that don't believe in "one god" or any god.

Just like what's on TV, raise and supervise your own kids and don't tell me as an adult what I can or can't watch because you find it offensive. Change the channel.

Some of the biggest corporate criminals I ever had the joy to deal with were go to church every sunday christian folks. Repent or whatever on sunday and go back to screwing people monday through friday.
 
I know I'm coming to this a little late. I usually don't get into discussions on politics because most people already have their minds made up and don't want to be confused with facts and logic. That said there are a couple of facts that should be noted. 1. The Federal Reserve system (which is not connected to the Federal government) is part of the theft of our countries wealth. They take OUR money and then loan it back to us and make us pay interest. So we're paying for the privilege of using our own money. If you don't believe it look it up yourself. You probably wouldn't believe me. 2. Isn't it funny that our current economy didn't hit the tank until the Dems took over congress in 06? And no I'm not a Republican. Probably closer to Libertarian. okay, that's enough. I'm now going back to enjoying our A bodies! LOL Mike
 
2. Isn't it funny that our current economy didn't hit the tank until the Dems took over congress in 06?

Purely coincidental as it was right about the same time the free money, loan to anybody that can fog a mirror standards ran it's course. Most people don't want to hear that. Martians could have been in control of congress, it wouldn't have mattered.

No more/reduced consumer spending will contract our economy in a heartbeat as we make up about 65% of the total.

I dislike both big parties because they both want our money to spend it on worthless crap.
 
It's not the govts responsibility to teach my kid or ANY kid about religion, god or any other deity. That's a parents responsibility. There are plenty of people in this country that don't believe in "one god" or any god.

Just like what's on TV, raise and supervise your own kids and don't tell me as an adult what I can or can't watch because you find it offensive. Change the channel.

Some of the biggest corporate criminals I ever had the joy to deal with were go to church every sunday christian folks. Repent or whatever on sunday and go back to screwing people monday through friday.


How did this country survive before the advent of public schools and then by state and then federal control of those schools? Did you know that schools in this country were church-run? The only universities were church run and financed. How did we survive? Did the sky fall? Were atheists tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. Nope.
 
Well, again, a Federal bailout is not Socialism....It's surely passing the bill, and it stinks.....and by the way, I don't agree with what they've done either......you're preaching to the choir on that one. But, this Administration's policies did not bring on the housing debacle. Greed brought on the problem, as it also drives up the price of oil, along with fear (speculation).

As for the comments on God and the Government teaching them about it, what I said has nothing at all to do with your contention. No one in Gov't is doing any such thing to my knowledge.

However, you cannot teach our nations history and leave God out of it, unless of course you "revise" it, as I previously alluded to........which is exactly what the Democratic Socialists are doing to our textbooks. This is simply wrong. You can't change history just because you don't happen to believe in a deity. If it's a historical fact, it should be taught exactly as it happened. The words and beliefs of the founding fathers should be quoted and portrayed exactly as they were spoken and penned, nothing edited or expunged. Period. We exist because of what they believed and stood for. We exist due to their undying dedication to those beliefs and principles, and we are free today because of the same.

It has nothing to do with whether or not you or anyone else believes in God. It has to do with the truth versus a lie. You cannot change historical fact.....but the Socialists will not rest until they accomplish just that. Our ivy league schools, our courts and government systems are replete with students of Marxism, and followers of various points of his philosophies.

.........and yes, you should read up more on those "facts" I mentioned. Just read a few of their books, and look at some of the legislation they have already tried to impose, and you'll be quite amazed.

It's been long contended (by the Socialists) that our military, in keeping with the new order and the global community, should be under the command of the United Nations......they see the US as-is as an "isolationist" regime, and unfruitful....thus their lack of overall patriotism....patriotism is isolationism.

Al Gore and others have already tried and failed in passing legislation that would have eliminated all older cars (polluters) by crushing or removal from our highways. Hillary Clinton has advocated parental loss of rights pertaining to your child's education and welfare.....in other words, the Gov't knows best. For years and years they have introduced legislation to take away our second amendment rights, and are currently, under the guise of the "Fairness Doctrine", attempting to limit the exercise of unfettered free speech over the airwaves (and by cable).

All it takes is a little reading.

Who do you suppose took away your rights to know if your child is receiving birth control at school, or God forbid having an abortion without your knowledge or approval? From some responses, I understand that when someone dictates something for your kids, it frosts you.........Well, they already do dictate far more than they should have the power to do.......and if "change" runs it's course, they'll be dictating a LOT more.

It's strange how that so many things mentioned in this thread are shared feelings.......I hate the corrupt nature of the political machines in America, just like you......but we're not talking about a good President versus a bad one in this election.........we're talking about the survival of America as we know it.

I live in a Homeowners Association park (HOA) in Florida. For those of you who know what I'm talking about, believe me, you give up Constitutional rights to live here. There are things I can no longer do or enjoy because of the "rules" I've agreed to abide by in living here.....and now, I have to abide by the future rules of the "majority" as well, or face litigation and bankruptcy or foreclosure. There are forces in this nation that have been whittling away at your Constitutional rights for decades.....some will stop at nothing to achieve an America run by purely Socialist values....and they have endless supplies of money to fight in the courts to achieve their goals....and that's how the HOA's maintain their power base.....by fear of litigation....just like the American Socialists (that's actually a misnomer).

The problem is that this country was not founded on Socialism or it's twisted philosophies. Other countries like Russia, Red China, Venezuela, Cuba etc. are Socialist in nature, run by an elite few who love absolute control, "for the good of society". This is what they want for America.....and they'll whittle away our rights, little by little, until one day we wake up to a Socialist nation.

As I said before...........If that's what you desire, vote accordingly.
 
The problem is that this country was not founded on Socialism or it's twisted philosophies. Other countries like Russia, Red China, Venezuela, Cuba etc. are Socialist in nature, run by an elite few who love absolute control, "for the good of society". This is what they want for America.....and they'll whittle away our rights, little by little, until one day we wake up to a Socialist nation.

Patriot act anyone?

You can't have it both ways.
 
Who pays? So who pays all these taxes? For 2005, the most recent year for which information is available, IRS data indicate that taxpayers with adjusted gross income (AGI) in the top 1% of the population bore 39% of the total national income tax burden, while those in the top 5%, 10%, 25%, and 50% bore 60%, 70%, 86%, and 97%, respectively, of that burden. Those in the bottom 50% paid a paltry 3%! This proves, in part, the steep progressivity of the income tax system.
Top 1% --> 39%
Top 5% --> 60%
Top 10%--> 70%
Top 25%--> 86%
Top 50% --> 97%
Lower 505 --> 3%

Who pays what?
Effective Individual Tax Rates
Effective individual tax rates measure the percentage of individual income taxes paid by various income groups. A Congressional Budget Office (CBO) study, Historical Effective Tax Rates: 1979 to 2005, reports that for 2005 the bottom quintile's effective individual income tax rate was negative 6.5%, dropping 6.5 percentage points from 0% over the previous 26 years. And the middle class is doing pretty well, too, with an effective individual income tax rate of 3% for 2005, a drop of 60% from the 7.5% it paid 26 years ago. The effective individual income tax rate for the top 20% of income earners has dropped 1.6 percentage points, from 15.7% to 14.1%,
a drop of only 10% over the past 26 years. And the top 1% that some claim pay no tax? Their effective individual income tax rate was 19.4% for 2005, down from the 21.8% rate of
26 years ago.

Effective Federal Tax Rates
The same CBO study examined the effective federal tax rate, which measures the percentage of income, payroll, and excise taxes of all taxpayers. For 2005, the top 20% of all taxpayers had an effective federal tax rate of 25.5%, while the lowest 20% had an effective rate of 4.3%; the middle class paid tax at an effective rate of 14.2%. Further, the top 10% of filers had an effective federal tax rate of 27.4%; the top 5%, a rate of 28.9%; and the top 1%, a whopping 31.2%. Like the IRS statistics, the CBO data indicate that our tax system is quite progressive.

Although all taxpayers have seen a drop in their effective federal tax rate over the last 26 years, who has seen the greatest decrease? CBO numbers reveal that the bottom 20% has seen a 46% decline in their effective federal tax rates. Likewise, the second and middle quintiles saw a decrease of 31% and 24%, respectively. The upper middle class? Their effective federal tax rates decreased only 18%. And the top 20% of income earners? A drop of just 7%.

The Bush Tax Cuts
What about the Bush tax cuts? Since 2000, when Bush entered office, the share of federal tax liabilities borne by the lowest and middle quintiles has decreased, while the share borne by the highest quintile has increased. In 2000, the lowest quintile bore 1.1% of total federal tax liabilities compared with 0.9% in 2004, the year that all of the Bush tax cuts were in effect. Thus, the federal tax liability of the lowest quintile dropped 18%. However, the highest quintile paid 67.2% of these liabilities in 2004, an increase of 1% in their liability since 2000, when they paid 66.6%.
 
I heard another great reason to not vote for Obama yesterday. He wants to teach our 5 year olds in kindergarten about sex. The "Comprehensive Sex Education Program" he supports includes teaching them that there are places on their bodies that will make them feel good if someone touches them. ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? They played Obama's response to someone who had criticized his support for this. He said "He said I wanted to teach sex to five year olds. I don't know what to tell him. It's the right thing to do".
I have no great love for McCain but how anyone could support this guy simply amazes me.
 
Who pays? So who pays all these taxes? For 2005, the most recent year for which information is available, IRS data indicate that taxpayers with adjusted gross income (AGI) in the top 1% of the population bore 39% of the total national income tax burden, while those in the top 5%, 10%, 25%, and 50% bore 60%, 70%, 86%, and 97%, respectively, of that burden. Those in the bottom 50% paid a paltry 3%! This proves, in part, the steep progressivity of the income tax system.
Top 1% --> 39%
Top 5% --> 60%
Top 10%--> 70%
Top 25%--> 86%
Top 50% --> 97%
Lower 505 --> 3%

Who pays what?
Effective Individual Tax Rates
Effective individual tax rates measure the percentage of individual income taxes paid by various income groups. A Congressional Budget Office (CBO) study, Historical Effective Tax Rates: 1979 to 2005, reports that for 2005 the bottom quintile's effective individual income tax rate was negative 6.5%, dropping 6.5 percentage points from 0% over the previous 26 years. And the middle class is doing pretty well, too, with an effective individual income tax rate of 3% for 2005, a drop of 60% from the 7.5% it paid 26 years ago. The effective individual income tax rate for the top 20% of income earners has dropped 1.6 percentage points, from 15.7% to 14.1%,
a drop of only 10% over the past 26 years. And the top 1% that some claim pay no tax? Their effective individual income tax rate was 19.4% for 2005, down from the 21.8% rate of
26 years ago.

Effective Federal Tax Rates
The same CBO study examined the effective federal tax rate, which measures the percentage of income, payroll, and excise taxes of all taxpayers. For 2005, the top 20% of all taxpayers had an effective federal tax rate of 25.5%, while the lowest 20% had an effective rate of 4.3%; the middle class paid tax at an effective rate of 14.2%. Further, the top 10% of filers had an effective federal tax rate of 27.4%; the top 5%, a rate of 28.9%; and the top 1%, a whopping 31.2%. Like the IRS statistics, the CBO data indicate that our tax system is quite progressive.

Although all taxpayers have seen a drop in their effective federal tax rate over the last 26 years, who has seen the greatest decrease? CBO numbers reveal that the bottom 20% has seen a 46% decline in their effective federal tax rates. Likewise, the second and middle quintiles saw a decrease of 31% and 24%, respectively. The upper middle class? Their effective federal tax rates decreased only 18%. And the top 20% of income earners? A drop of just 7%.

The Bush Tax Cuts
What about the Bush tax cuts? Since 2000, when Bush entered office, the share of federal tax liabilities borne by the lowest and middle quintiles has decreased, while the share borne by the highest quintile has increased. In 2000, the lowest quintile bore 1.1% of total federal tax liabilities compared with 0.9% in 2004, the year that all of the Bush tax cuts were in effect. Thus, the federal tax liability of the lowest quintile dropped 18%. However, the highest quintile paid 67.2% of these liabilities in 2004, an increase of 1% in their liability since 2000, when they paid 66.6%.
There you go. Trying to use facts again. Democrats don't want you clouding their beliefs with a bunch of facts.
 
I just got a call from the Monroe County Democrats. The gentleman asked if I normally vote Democrat or Republican I answered Democrat and he said great do you have any questions I responded with yes " Did he really vote present rather than yes or no 130 times" He then hung up on me. I guess its a good reason that I am voting McCain this round.
 
I just got a call from the Monroe County Democrats. The gentleman asked if I normally vote Democrat or Republican I answered Democrat and he said great do you have any questions I responded with yes " Did he really vote present rather than yes or no 130 times" He then hung up on me. I guess its a good reason that I am voting McCain this round.

Just to play Devil's Advocat, how many times in the past 22 years has J. McCain voted "present?" I bet it does not total anywhere near that many...
 
I just got a call from the Monroe County Democrats. The gentleman asked if I normally vote Democrat or Republican I answered Democrat and he said great do you have any questions I responded with yes " Did he really vote present rather than yes or no 130 times" He then hung up on me. I guess its a good reason that I am voting McCain this round.
Well, at least he didn't try to lie to you.
 
Just to play Devil's Advocat, how many times in the past 22 years has J. McCain voted "present?" I bet it does not total anywhere near that many...
There is no record of that because the Senate does not have a "present" option. There is only "NV" which stands for "Not Voting, Excused, Absent, or Present". There is no record of which of those options was responsible for a "NV" vote.
 
Pastortom sparked a comment due from my small mind.
Think about this. If you are going to herd a bunch of turkeys, you would probably do a study on the behavior of those tukeys so as to be able to control that line of creature. Don't think for one minute the government hasn't done that very thing on us turkeys. No Democrats, republican, or liberal or what ever you call yourself. We are all turkeys and we ARE being contolled. Some more than others. Some candidates would like nothing more than to give us all we want and demand from them and in doing so all of our desires to be self supporting will be gone and then guess what. As your sucking on the government tit they come up with some off the wall proposal that they need you vote on. You say no way. They say no more tit. You've done away with you self supporting back bone and you vote their way. Huuuum !!! Sorta sounds like a scenario in Washington. Vote my way and you will have support for life. Screw those leaches out there in your home town. They'll follow along when you cut em off. WOW !!Did i say that? I'll have to start reading the label on that bottle.............
Taxes? I had a fellow tell me his father had a remedy for the tax issue in america. All would be fair. The sears and roebuck catalogue would once again would no longer be looked upon as junk mail. Put $.10 tax on each roll of toilet paper sold. Problem solved. Wouldn't work in the middle east as i under stand they eat with .....which hand?
 
McCain says Obama is going to raise taxes on middle class Americans. There is no evidence to support McCain's statement.

Actually there is plenty. The budget that the Democrats tried to pass earlier this year, which both Obama and Biden enthusiastically supported, aimed to raise almost $400 billion over 5 years with tax increases that started with those making just over $32,000 per year. What Obama says now as part of his campaign does not matter nearly as much as his actual record, at least, what little record he has.
 
Keep your eye on that small green tree in front of you as the forest burns to the ground around you.

Today in the market is only the beginning, IMHO. Dow is already down 20+% with a bunch more to go.

Who is supposed to pay for all this stuff. The GOVT needs to stop spending money NOW!
 
Has everyone forgotten about the biggest tax increase in the last 8 years which is the price of gasoline some 150% and who will pofit from it? BUSH-CHANY. wake up.
 
Keep your eye on that small green tree in front of you as the forest burns to the ground around you.

Today in the market is only the beginning, IMHO. Dow is already down 20+% with a bunch more to go.

Who is supposed to pay for all this stuff. The GOVT needs to stop spending money NOW!
In the bunch of guys we have here you should never assume you are the only one paying attention or that you are the only one who has things figured out. You will almost always be wrong. I know they need to stop spending money. They also need to take an 80% pay cut, they are civil servents, not kings. Most of all they all need to study the Constitution and the words of those who wrote and signed it. Almost everything Congress does these days is beyond their legal, Constitutional authority, like taxing our wages. I addressed only one topic because it was a direct response to a statement.
 
Has everyone forgotten about the biggest tax increase in the last 8 years which is the price of gasoline some 150% and who will pofit from it? BUSH-CHANY. wake up.
HAHAHAHA, WRONG. How are Bush and Cheny profiting from the price of gas that the DEMOCRATS are intentionally keeping high by refusing to let us produce our own and keeping taxes on it high? YOU WAKE UP.
 
Take the time to go to www.FactCheck.org and you will find the various distorsions both campaigns claim against the other. You can read McCain's assertions about Obama taxing small business and the claims against Palin on burning books and cutting the budget for special needs children. Plenty of bullshit being thrown out from both sides.
 
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