Missed on this combo?

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The 10.8 vs 11-1 difference is NOT to be worried about. I understand the concern and why it is recommended to you that it should be an 11-1 ratio. No worries, you'll never notice the difference.
 
Ironmike said:
Oh wait. Years ago I read an article in Mopar muscle car Magazine about how they installed a set of Hughes CNC smallblock heads and oh my God. They talk about how Hughes was the only place who really know about the importance of mid lift flow and how they picked up like a million hp and even more torque.........blah, blah.

Did this really happen, and where did Hughes get the heads? I mean come on, magazines don't lie right?

My blood starts boiling and I'm generally not an angry guy.

What if some poor guy scrimps and saves and actually buys the whole package deal, which I'm guessing would be roughly $3500 bucks. No dyno I bet. That's how they get away with it.

I'm going off on a tangent. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Years ago I used to buy three magazines every month religiously--then I got a dyno--then I stopped buying magazines. Coincidence?

Back in the 90's I was smart enough to print and keep some of the claimed flow charts from porting stock iron heads from Hughes. The big block heads were note worthy and hilarious. I haven't looked at them in years but I remember BIG flow numbers like 330 or 340+. I didn't know **** from shinola (to be fair I still don't know what shinola is) and ate it up--just like I did with the BigMouth's.

I am the very example of that poor guy in the quote. I build engines for a living ! It hurts when you scrimp and save and plunk out $3500+ on some super duper heads only to find out your 9 year old daughter could probably port better on a stock set of Eddy's--for free.

Mike I told you WAY WAY back that your heads are the issue. J.Rob
 
Cudafever said:
That's ok,
I use to love reading hot rod mags
now i buy on for when i go camping or something, never read it.
As you get older you recognize hype a lot better.
Click to expand...
The mags actually were sources of good knowledge and info, similar to a site like FABO, back in the day (1970's). Now they just have 'builds' to advertise parts and shops. I remember when the C&D staff would put together their own engines work out all the details THEMSELVES.

It's the difference between 'car guys' and 'journalists'....
 
Last edited:
RAMM said:
Years ago I used to buy three magazines every month religiously--then I got a dyno--then I stopped buying magazines. Coincidence?

Back in the 90's I was smart enough to print and keep some of the claimed flow charts from porting stock iron heads from Hughes. The big block heads were note worthy and hilarious. I haven't looked at them in years but I remember BIG flow numbers like 330 or 340+. I didn't know **** from shinola (to be fair I still don't know what shinola is) and ate it up--just like I did with the BigMouth's.

I am the very example of that poor guy in the quote. I build engines for a living ! It hurts when you scrimp and save and plunk out $3500+ on some super duper heads only to find out your 9 year old daughter could probably port better on a stock set of Eddy's--for free.

Mike I told you WAY WAY back that your heads are the issue. J.Rob
Click to expand...
Let me help. Shinola = shoe polish
 
Yeah that may be it also
They were good for basic knowledge, and when i was young, i need a lot of that so the mag keep me interested.
I know i dreamed and made many many parts list before i built my first eng. I guess the mags have changed as well as i have.
Seems like everything these day live on half truths and Hype.
 
Wow started in 1905........I'm not that damn old! "talking in my "granny" voice" but i can still whip-up on all you young Whipper Snappers:wtf: :D
 
RAMM said:
Years ago I used to buy three magazines every month religiously--then I got a dyno--then I stopped buying magazines. Coincidence?

Back in the 90's I was smart enough to print and keep some of the claimed flow charts from porting stock iron heads from Hughes. The big block heads were note worthy and hilarious. I haven't looked at them in years but I remember BIG flow numbers like 330 or 340+. I didn't know **** from shinola (to be fair I still don't know what shinola is) and ate it up--just like I did with the BigMouth's.

I am the very example of that poor guy in the quote. I build engines for a living ! It hurts when you scrimp and save and plunk out $3500+ on some super duper heads only to find out your 9 year old daughter could probably port better on a stock set of Eddy's--for free.

Mike I told you WAY WAY back that your heads are the issue. J.Rob
Click to expand...

You and and half the posters in this thread said that. The low and mid lift flow is poor and the peak is so under advertised someone should be sued.
I read all the stuff being posted, not by Ramm, of which only half is remotely relative to his issue
Like the talk of 360 iron and trying to relate it...somtimes a persons experience is telling of their skill level or patience, either at that time...or in general, but should in no way be held as law or another's assumed destined result.

Gord/cudfever, imo you need to first find a good factory casting thats up to par on the ssr/floor heights before expecting over 260 cfm. Also..the the chamber CAN be changed/modified/manipulated and help, not hurt, the airflow. You saw my work...wether you knew it or not, and your words were "the short turn looks untouched"... What does that tell you besides pictures don't show enough?
Ever work the port floor before the ss's peak? Have you ever tried raising the entire roof to max height? Do you overwork the ssr on the push rod side?
None of that will help mike and actually might put more doubt, reluctance, uncertainty into the game...though I do find it more interesting than this build.
BLooMer heads, how much lift till you hit 300 cfm?? Well, you could say "the sky is the limit" couldn't you....
In a nutshell...I'm just as disappointed as mike is. My Sig derived from this thread and years of this, really. They always short us mopar guys, but that just means we have to be smarter than the next guy...
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
You and and half the posters in this thread said that. The low and mid lift flow is poor and the peak is so under advertised someone should be sued.
I read all the stuff being posted, not by Ramm, of which only half is remotely relative to his issue
Like the talk of 360 iron and trying to relate it...somtimes a persons experience is telling of their skill level or patience, either at that time...or in general, but should in no way be held as law or another's assumed destined result.

Gord/cudafever, imo you need to first find a good factory casting thats up to par on the ssr/floor heights before expecting over 260 cfm. ok where do i know you from Also..the the chamber CAN be changed/modified/manipulated and help, not hurt, the airflow. You saw my work...whether you knew it or not, and your words were "the short turn looks untouched"...ok now i'm real curious, you can pm me if you like What does that tell you besides pictures don't show enough?
I could get 250-260 without a hole lot of pain. my biggest problem was trying to make the port have the same CSA and every time i tried to fill in the floor ramp things start to change.
Ever work the port floor before the ss's peak? no like i said i tryed to fill it in Have you ever tried raising the entire roof to max height? Yup ground through that short head bolt Do you overwork the ssr on the push rod side? YUP, THATS WHEN MY VELOCITY PROBE STARTED GIVING ME NEGATIVE NUMBERS. lol
None of that will help mike and actually might put more doubt, reluctance, uncertainty into the game...though I do find it more interesting than this build. Well you're right we should continue this conversation on a pm and I Hope we do. vary interested in what you have to say.
BLooMer heads, how much lift till you hit 300 cfm?? Well, you could say "the sky is the limit" couldn't you....
In a nutshell...I'm just as disappointed as mike is. My Sig derived from this thread and years of this, really. They always short us mopar guys, but that just means we have to be smarter than the next guy...
Click to expand...
expand to read coments
 
RAMM said:
Mike I told you WAY WAY back that your heads are the issue. J.Rob
Click to expand...

Not to toot my own horn but I was there at post #3.
Glad to see it's getting properly addressed Mike! It's fine to be nervous. Just wait and see.
 
RAMM said:
Years ago I used to buy three magazines every month religiously--then I got a dyno--then I stopped buying magazines. Coincidence?

Back in the 90's I was smart enough to print and keep some of the claimed flow charts from porting stock iron heads from Hughes. The big block heads were note worthy and hilarious. I haven't looked at them in years but I remember BIG flow numbers like 330 or 340+. I didn't know **** from shinola (to be fair I still don't know what shinola is) and ate it up--just like I did with the BigMouth's.

I am the very example of that poor guy in the quote. I build engines for a living ! It hurts when you scrimp and save and plunk out $3500+ on some super duper heads only to find out your 9 year old daughter could probably port better on a stock set of Eddy's--for free.

Mike I told you WAY WAY back that your heads are the issue. J.Rob
Click to expand...

I don't think it's your or anyone's fault for buying heads like the big mouth. Even if you take their numbers with a LARGE grain of salt. It's still worth while to check them out and see how they do. You can never know what something really does, without trying it yourself. I don't consider it money lost. You shouldn't either. Consider it money spent on research. I think it's money well spent. If it prevents your customers and others from making the same mistake. And it only helps boost your credibility.

So thank you. For spending your hard earned dollars to see if those heads would work for guys like us. I truly appreciate it.
 
moper said:
Not to toot my own horn but I was there at post #3.
Glad to see it's getting properly addressed Mike! It's fine to be nervous. Just wait and see.
Click to expand...

Yeah you mentioned head flow in post #3 but I laser pointered the "murdered S.S." in post #12 only because I have first hand experience with them. I even drew a crude diagram. This is why W2's work so well! It isn't just because of the oval port and offset rockers. It's due in large part to the VERY tall S.S. It's so tall you have to reduce it for optimum low and high lift flow. Toot-toot. J.Rob
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
You and and half the posters in this thread said that. The low and mid lift flow is poor and the peak is so under advertised someone should be sued.
I read all the stuff being posted, not by Ramm, of which only half is remotely relative to his issue
Like the talk of 360 iron and trying to relate it...somtimes a persons experience is telling of their skill level or patience, either at that time...or in general, but should in no way be held as law or another's assumed destined result.

Gord/cudfever, imo you need to first find a good factory casting thats up to par on the ssr/floor heights before expecting over 260 cfm. Also..the the chamber CAN be changed/modified/manipulated and help, not hurt, the airflow. You saw my work...wether you knew it or not, and your words were "the short turn looks untouched"... What does that tell you besides pictures don't show enough?
Ever work the port floor before the ss's peak? Have you ever tried raising the entire roof to max height? Do you overwork the ssr on the push rod side?
None of that will help mike and actually might put more doubt, reluctance, uncertainty into the game...though I do find it more interesting than this build.
BLooMer heads, how much lift till you hit 300 cfm?? Well, you could say "the sky is the limit" couldn't you....
In a nutshell...I'm just as disappointed as mike is. My Sig derived from this thread and years of this, really. They always short us mopar guys, but that just means we have to be smarter than the next guy...
Click to expand...

Don't understand most of this ^^^^^. J.Rob
 
RAMM said:
Don't understand most of this ^^^^^. J.Rob
Click to expand...
The first few lines were an echo of what you said, the rest wasn't directed toward you..oh and YES to the ssr of a w2....essentially that is the shape you want to create to make those factory iron door stop heads into something.
 
Ah come on, now. The rockers weren't junk. They just weren't 1.6. Or 1.5. Well some were........

So on my in car engine, which has been in 3 different configurations, and pounded relentlessly, sits the same 2008 Hughes 1.6 rockers, form day 1 of my Mopar history. They really should have been replaced years ago. They are STILL working. I like them better than the new design forsure. Watch one break now.

Ok so my machinist called me this morning, told me don't cry but they milled .004 off late in the day yesterday to check how much .004 would get them cc-wise. So they only got .004 off. Hell, that's just a clean up.

I know everyone knew the heads were the culprit and I kinda did too. Just needed to hear it 1000 times. It still stings.
 
Ironmike said:
Ah come on, now. The rockers weren't junk. They just weren't 1.6. Or 1.5. Well some were........

So on my in car engine, which has been in 3 different configurations, and pounded relentlessly, sits the same 2008 Hughes 1.6 rockers, form day 1 of my Mopar history. They really should have been replaced years ago. They are STILL working. I like them better than the new design forsure. Watch one break now.

Ok so my machinist called me this morning, told me don't cry but they milled .004 off late in the day yesterday to check how much .004 would get them cc-wise. So they only got .004 off. Hell, that's just a clean up.

I know everyone knew the heads were the culprit and I kinda did too. Just needed to hear it 1000 times. It still stings.
Click to expand...

So wth did they find out then? That they should remove .0063 per cc?
 
MOPAROFFICIAL said:
The first few lines were an echo of what you said, the rest wasn't directed toward you..oh and YES to the ssr of a w2....essentially that is the shape you want to create to make those factory iron door stop heads into something.
Click to expand...

Ok wasn't sure--No harm no foul. J.Rob
 
Lustle said:
I don't think it's your or anyone's fault for buying heads like the big mouth. Even if you take their numbers with a LARGE grain of salt. It's still worth while to check them out and see how they do. You can never know what something really does, without trying it yourself.Is it? I think so but it still hurts. I don't consider it money lost. I don't -its a learning experience-but if you default on your mortgage than that is a problem. You shouldn't either. Consider it money spent on research. I should know better and set my expectations much much lower than advertised-and yet the heads were off the pace even more than I accounted for. I think it's money well spent.If mine make power-I agree. If they don't I disagree. If it prevents your customers and others from making the same mistake. And it only helps boost your credibility. Credibility aside I have a major problem with this because it teaches me something. Essentially I can come up with a product (and believe me I can) and even if it doesn't work I can still push it and market it and tout it for all it isn't?
Sorry guys but this is what's wrong with the world--NOBODY is held accountable for anything anymore!

In my world if it don't perform ----work on it 'till it does

If it doesn't work as well as it should---fuckin fix it!

If it works after all of the above-it may actually be something.

So thank you. For spending your hard earned dollars to see if those heads would work for guys like us. I truly appreciate t.
Click to expand...
r
J.Rob
 
Ironmike said:
Ah come on, now. The rockers weren't junk. They just weren't 1.6. Or 1.5. Well some were........

So on my in car engine, which has been in 3 different configurations, and pounded relentlessly, sits the same 2008 Hughes 1.6 rockers, form day 1 of my Mopar history. They really should have been replaced years ago. They are STILL working. I like them better than the new design forsure. Watch one break now.

Ok so my machinist called me this morning, told me don't cry but they milled .004 off late in the day yesterday to check how much .004 would get them cc-wise. So they only got .004 off. Hell, that's just a clean up.

I know everyone knew the heads were the culprit and I kinda did too. Just needed to hear it 1000 times. It still stings.
Click to expand...

.004" is an average human hair.

**** YEAH it stings!! I heard a thousand "OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO's" when I felt the S.S. and saw the bowl and ................ Realized I paid!!. J.Rob
 
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