Painless wire harness install (MORE PROGRESS)

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joeboy said:
For the ALT + I was gonna run it back all the way to the Battery side of the kill switch, (pre switch) so that when the switch is flipped it does not let the ALT to continue to provide power to the engine/fusebox. (necessary for tech inspection)JOE
Click to expand...

I realize some guys do this but I don't believe this truely meets NHRA rules. The rules have a statement about "kills all power." Your method indeed kills the battery BUT it still leaves a nice big (no 8 or 6) welding cable "hot" all the way from the front to rear of the (wrecked) car.

A better way in my book is to buy a 4 terminal (2 pole) switch like Cole Hersey, like one of these:

isolator.600.JPG


Hook the main battery up through the big terminals as per usual. Ground either of the small ones, and run a no14 or so up front from the remaining small terminal. Hook this wire to one coil connection on either a relay large enough to run ignition loads, or a "continuous duty" solenoid, to switch same thing.

Hook your switch "Ignition run" coming from the ign. switch to the remaining small terminal of the solenoid or relay coil, and now you have a relay / solenoid which will drop out if either the key is switched off or the battery disconnect is pulled.

If you have a 3 wire alternator, hook one side of the relay/ solenoid to battery source, and ignition/ field/ regulator loads to the "cold side of the relay/ solenoid

If you have a 1 wire alternator, there are several ways to go but you DO need to use a solenoid, and not a relay. Hook the alternator charge wire to the battery side of the solenoid, and the ignition / other "run" loads to the switched post.

That way, if either the key is turned off or the disconnect pulled, the solenoid will drop, separating the alternator from the ignition, and of course the disconnect separates the battery.

NO POWER anywhere except in the trunk.
 
younggun2.0 said:
dont know where i read it but i read that you want to keep your battery negative terminal ground short as possible. I saw on a ratrod forum board where a guy made a small 2"x2" square out of 1/8" steel plate. he welded a chunk of 3/4" round bar to that and drilled and tapped the inside for a 3/8" bolt. he welded the plate/post to the frame rail just below the batter box. this is what i plan to do. I think we have an advantage with grounding as our cars are unibody and not framed cars.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up, I keep hearing how important block grounds are on EFI cars. I havent heard this, but wanna do it right... back to research...

67dart273,

I'm not sure I follow where the Hot ALT wire goes, (is it still back to the kill switch or another relay) but I get your point about not leaving that hot wire all the way to the trunk in my scenario

Thanks, JOE
 
Here's one way to do it:

The dotted vertical line represents the separation between trunk area and front area Shown here is for "non" one wire alternator as you have

"# huge" is your main cable going from starter back to trunk

"Factory" wire from starter to relay in your case only has to be no 10 IF you are only using the relay stud to operate the starter solenoid, larger if you use the relay for a junction for other circuits

Your alternator main output can connect either to the start relay stud or starter

I forgot to label the "continuous duty" solenoid to the right of the start relay.

The wire from the start relay stud to one of the main studs on the relay needs to be big enough to run whatever underhood switched loads you have. If all you have is to fire the small red for the MSD, then you can use a Bosch relay instead. The two big studs of the solenoid are the contacts.

The right hand stud of the solenoid (contact) then feeds the "small red" of your MSD, and could also feed the blue field of your alternator, as well as the regulator IGN terminal. Since you have a separate "exciter wire" in the Painless harness, this is not necessary.

The coil (small terminals) of the solenoid / relay are

on left "ignition switch ignition run" is power coming FROM the switch, IE your IGN1/ IGN2 together

The relay/ solenoid is then grounded through the disconnect small terminals, labeled "# 14 or 12"

The two large terminals of the disconnect breaks your battery positive cable.

It MIGHT be that this same effect can be had in the MSD, do they show a ground that can be lifted for security or kill switch? That is, if so, you could eliminate the solenoid/ relay.

On the other hand you if you use a solenoid and heavy enough wire to power the fed contact, you can also use the solenoid to break all switched loads, electric fans, water pump, fuel pump(s), etc.

If you do this, and only use a relay, you can undoubtedly hide the relay under the cowl with the starter relay

So the way this works, if EITHER the key or disconnect is off, the engine cannot possibly run. If the disconnect is pulled, there is NO power outside the trunk area



j63gi1.jpg
 
if i were to use that 4 post kill switch could i just use that to kill the power coming from the battery to the starter post? then the 8ga wire that i have feeding power to my junction box under the dash that feeds my fuse box and msd ignition. I have my alternator charge wire going straight to the starter stud.

with my alternator feeding power only to the starter post if i were to kill the link to the battery then it would kill all power from the trunk forward.
 
The problem is that if you just kill the battery, the car will continue to run "on the alternator." I'm always bitchin' about guys who "test" an alternator by yanking off a battery cable. The assumption (incorrect) is that if the engine dies, the charging system is not working, and if it keeps running, it is OK.

So if you were to wreck, the engine still running, and are incapacitated, and some safety guy gets brave enough to yank the battery disconnect, the damn thing will just keep running

That's why you need the other switch poles (small terminals)
 
that makes sense. i will be taking your advise when i get to the kill switch.

i am going to be wiring my ignition system tomorrow. i know that with my painless kit and msd ignition i have to "jump" my ignition 1 and ignition 2 wires together then send them to my keyed hot wire for my msd box. how would you suggest i make the connection from the ign.1 to ign. 2? just run a loop from one to the other coming out of the plug?
 
I assume you mean at the ignition switch plug. If you never plan on running anything which needs a ballast, I'd say "yes."
 
67,

Thanks for the diagram, that helps clear it up with the relay.

I think I will use that set-up for mine.


Younggun, thanks for letting me hijack, keep up the good work, lets see some more pics...

JOE
 
joeboy said:
67,

Thanks for the diagram, that helps clear it up with the relay.

I think I will use that set-up for mine.


Younggun, thanks for letting me hijack, keep up the good work, lets see some more pics...

JOE
Click to expand...

been working on things this weekend. just trying to get the routing worked out. i will snap some pictures soon.

no such thing as a high jack in this thread. any and all info or perspectives are welcome. I wish i had found a thread like this prior to starting my install. you guys have all been a wealth of knowledge.
 
ok here is a little bit of what i got done today. its all pretty slow going.

this heater has to be my best tool! its below freezing here and i have no insulation in my garage. had the heater going and was in shorts and a t shirt. nice and toasty.

wireinstall001_zps5fc061b0.jpg


i got the wires coming out of the fuse block partially organized and layed out the path they will be taking.

wireinstall002_zpscb76c818.jpg


then i ran the power supply wires to the headlight switch.

wireinstall003_zpsce6d5639.jpg


then i got the brake light switch back in the car and wired up.

wireinstall004_zps0a13afd9.jpg


then it was onto the ignition switch.

wireinstall006_zpsd52ddb5a.jpg


wireinstall007_zpse1b5c8ae.jpg


wireinstall008_zpse515a7b9.jpg


i got the power supply to the fuse box ran also. had to make a small bracket to mount the maxi-fuse inline.

wireinstall009_zps013753d5.jpg


i have had the msd box mounted for a long time. i will be re-doing the mount and making a box/plate mount like the other two. i got the coil wires ran.

wireinstall010_zpsa6ced6b0.jpg
 
67Dart273 said:
I realize some guys do this but I don't believe this truely meets NHRA rules. The rules have a statement about "kills all power." Your method indeed kills the battery BUT it still leaves a nice big (no 8 or 6) welding cable "hot" all the way from the front to rear of the (wrecked) car.

A better way in my book is to buy a 4 terminal (2 pole) switch like Cole Hersey, like one of these:

isolator.600.JPG


Hook the main battery up through the big terminals as per usual. Ground either of the small ones, and run a no14 or so up front from the remaining small terminal. Hook this wire to one coil connection on either a relay large enough to run ignition loads, or a "continuous duty" solenoid, to switch same thing.

Hook your switch "Ignition run" coming from the ign. switch to the remaining small terminal of the solenoid or relay coil, and now you have a relay / solenoid which will drop out if either the key is switched off or the battery disconnect is pulled.

If you have a 3 wire alternator, hook one side of the relay/ solenoid to battery source, and ignition/ field/ regulator loads to the "cold side of the relay/ solenoid

If you have a 1 wire alternator, there are several ways to go but you DO need to use a solenoid, and not a relay. Hook the alternator charge wire to the battery side of the solenoid, and the ignition / other "run" loads to the switched post.

That way, if either the key is turned off or the disconnect pulled, the solenoid will drop, separating the alternator from the ignition, and of course the disconnect separates the battery.

NO POWER anywhere except in the trunk.
Click to expand...
This is the kill switch I had to use when I had my Ron Francis harness installed.My car would mysteriously continue running sometimes after hitting the kill switch (wasn,t very good when going through tech at 3 different dragstrips).your doing a fine job YoungGun...keep at it.
I vote 67Dart273 for starting his own business making fuse panels and MOPAR ONLY wire harnesses for these old cars.He,s the most electrical knowledgable guy on this site in my opinion.Just sayin..:D
 
Some good lookin stuff. I'm not as neat (don't have the money) as you guys.
 
getting alot closer. thrashed on it all day today. i started by buying a battery and getting the box mounted.

then i started fabricating my ground stud for the battery to rear frame.

wireinstall014_zpsb0a4408b.jpg


here it is welded to the rear frame rail.

wireinstall015_zpsc2fa4ede.jpg


and here is the cable coming thru the floor. still have to get a rubber grommet.

wireinstall017_zps2aaf2e46.jpg


wireinstall016_zps5291d18b.jpg


then i made my engine to frame ground wire. used 1/0 wire so it should be huge overkill.

wireinstall019_zps25246554.jpg


made sure to grind the paint off the frame to bare metal. used serrated washers also.

wireinstall018_zps0d0aa7cf.jpg


wireinstall020_zps9eeaded3.jpg


and here it is all bolted up.

wireinstall021_zpsd6a8eb92.jpg
.
 
then i sand blasted and powder coated the under dash brackets.

powdercoating_zps0695d6d3.jpg


powdercoating1_zpsdf2b1a92.jpg


i got the brackets back in the car and started wiring up my voltage regulator, msd box, coil, starter relay and all my power leads and grounds to the junction boxes.

wireinstall023_zps4fbf67ba.jpg


wireinstall024_zps2b21dff6.jpg


wireinstall025_zps6a2aaa43.jpg


now all i have left to do is run my power from the battery to the starter and to my under dash junction box. I still have to order my kill switch so that is the big hold up. I still have to run the under hood wiring and wire the tail lights. im very nearly done.
 
finally, a little life out of the car. i have all the under dash wiring done. just have to run my front and rear light harness. i have to finish up the under hood wiring as well. this is the first time i have had any kind of life out of the car in ten years. just gotta go over the car with a fine tooth comb and check everything twice. then put fluids in it and set valve lash and its time to fire it up. here is small video. its not much but its something.

[ame=http://i370.photobucket.com/albums/oo147/johnnydart_photo/dashvideo-1_zps8fa8e544.mp4]
th_dashvideo-1_zps8fa8e544.jpg
[/ame]
 
hemitheus said:
looking very good. does the dimmer work too?
Click to expand...

as of now the dimmer does not work. the leds dont work with the dimmer switch. they make a small box that you can install between the switch and the lights that will allow them to dim. i will most likely just leave them as is. i like the bright light.
 
67Dart273 said:
I've never had the skill to to that neat 'a work!!
Click to expand...

i dont really have much skill. I just really enjoy the "tinkering". before i started this project i had absolutely no wiring experience. this site and its members have been a huge help and motivator.
 
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