Pivoting from 340 to 360

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Jones only has one .904 hyd on his website the bottom one
H440D64307 DC 260 for comparison
265 @.004 284
256° @.006 269
246 @.008 260
202° @.050 212 newer grind may be 221/228 some were 221/221 over the years
120 @ 200 115
64 @ 275 DC 260 is 42

.307″ lobe lift
.461″ 1.5
.491″ 1.6
.522″ 1.7
Howard most likely latest .904 lobes then Lunati Bullet Crane and Engle are dated but reliable I've used more Engle .904 then Crower and Chet Herbert (wrenched for Lefty back in the day) Isky on most everything else cuz we got the longest deal from ED
Two schools of cam grinding here in so cal the one which is now Clay Smith (first guy with the original ideas died young, as did Clay) and Winfield followers. Racer Brown and Bill Jenks (potvin/ moon) and Jack Engle could do the math themselves as could Dick Jones Chet could do it or afford to have it done
Lots of copy cat grinders and lots with very brutal profiles
That's where Crane came in with his computer smoothing

WTF is a Master Mopar Mechanic I had a flow bench guy , a dyno guy a head guy, propane guy and a machinist unfortunately back when gas was good
even if MMM can figure it out OP needs to be able to do the math himself and see how the measurements change the results
 
Wyrmrider said:
Jones only has one .904 hyd on his website the bottom one
H440D64307 DC 260 for comparison
265 @.004 284
256° @.006 269
246 @.008 260
202° @.050 212 newer grind may be 221/228 some were 221/221 over the years
120 @ 200 115
64 @ 275 DC 260 is 42

.307″ lobe lift
.461″ 1.5
.491″ 1.6
.522″ 1.7
Howard most likely latest .904 lobes then Lunati Bullet Crane and Engle are dated but reliable I've used more Engle .904 then Crower and Chet Herbert (wrenched for Lefty back in the day) Isky on most everything else cuz we got the longest deal from ED
Two schools of cam grinding here in so cal the one which is now Clay Smith (first guy with the original ideas died young, as did Clay) and Winfield followers. Racer Brown and Bill Jenks (potvin/ moon) and Jack Engle could do the math themselves as could Dick Jones Chet could do it or afford to have it done
Lots of copy cat grinders and lots with very brutal profiles
That's where Crane came in with his computer smoothing

WTF is a Master Mopar Mechanic I had a flow bench guy , a dyno guy a head guy, propane guy and a machinist unfortunately back when gas was good
even if MMM can figure it out OP needs to be able to do the math himself and see how the measurements change the results
Click to expand...


You are making my point. They guy has ONE hydraulic grind for a .904 lobe and very few for solids. Yet every time this comes up, you leg bump the .904 lobe to the point where if you buy a cam without the .904 lobe you are committing a mortal sin. That is 100% bullshit. I'd it wasn't, Jones would have way more profiles with .904 lobes.

BTW, just because a lobe is designed for a .904 lobe doesn't mean that lobe is worth a single ****. Neither does Jones, because every time I try to buy a cam from the guy he picks and .842 lobe. That means either he is ignorant (which he is not as I've used many of his roller grinds) or he thinks his .842 lobes are as good or better than ever other .904 lobe out there, or he knows it's not always worth it.

You get stuck on things and then hammer them home for no reason. Not everyone NEEDS a .904 lobe. If they get one, they likely ***** about the added valve train noise and a dozen other things. We all know a fully developed .904 lobe will require more spring load, better rockers and the geometry corrected. Most of which most guys don't want.

I could go on, but you get the point. I hope. The answer isn't always a .904 lobe. Most of the time it isn't even the question.

BTW, if you are that hard up for .904 lobes call Jim at Racer Brown. He has plenty. And he will grind the for you.
 
not enough market for 904 lobes
geometry needs correction on chevy lobes too
not necessarily more spring - it depends
as with Jim Jones has lots of other FT and Roller lobes that are not online
that cam was designed for the low compression mopar after lots of R and D and flat works
that and the Moon cam I helped develop are the only two short ones I know of that are not copied from something else
It's bigger than it looks near max piston velocity and after
cheers
 
IQ52 said:
You have a Master Mopar Mechanic at your disposal and you are going to throw all these other cats into the bag? Going to be a bunch of scratching and clawing. And the poor MMM is going to have to sort through all these other conflicting ideas with you? Just let the MMM do his job or he's no MMM. Why even have the MMM if he cannot figure out this stuff?
Click to expand...
Me, myself and Inare singing with the crickets.
The OP stated MMM and I clam up.
Let the MMM do his thing.
 
yellow rose said:
You are making my point. They guy has ONE hydraulic grind for a .904 lobe and very few for solids. Yet every time this comes up, you leg bump the .904 lobe to the point where if you buy a cam without the .904 lobe you are committing a mortal sin. That is 100% bullshit. I'd it wasn't, Jones would have way more profiles with .904 lobes.

BTW, just because a lobe is designed for a .904 lobe doesn't mean that lobe is worth a single ****. Neither does Jones, because every time I try to buy a cam from the guy he picks and .842 lobe. That means either he is ignorant (which he is not as I've used many of his roller grinds) or he thinks his .842 lobes are as good or better than ever other .904 lobe out there, or he knows it's not always worth it.

You get stuck on things and then hammer them home for no reason. Not everyone NEEDS a .904 lobe. If they get one, they likely ***** about the added valve train noise and a dozen other things. We all know a fully developed .904 lobe will require more spring load, better rockers and the geometry corrected. Most of which most guys don't want.

I could go on, but you get the point. I hope. The answer isn't always a .904 lobe. Most of the time it isn't even the question.

BTW, if you are that hard up for .904 lobes call Jim at Racer Brown. He has plenty. And he will grind the for you.
Click to expand...
Oh my Lord! I’ve said this a 1000 times!
And you’re right. According to this guy, if you don’t get a 904 cam, your cam ain’t ****.
 
Thanks to all for your input. Rumblefish and I have connected with parts from Moparts days gone by. Appreciate the input.

I love the opinions. To answer a few non-technical questions:
- the MMM is a friend and long-time player in the Mopar game. He's had and done many cars over the years. His day job is the mechanic manager at a Subaru dealership. I'm not gonna call him out by name or his Facebook site, but, by way of example, while my car has been with him, I've seen pass through while being wrenched on a '69 GTX 4-speed, a '69 Superbee survivor, a '65 Coronet strip car, a '71 Charger RT show car (OMG, talk about pristine!). He's practical, too. Never looking to have me overspend.
- I'm a 59yo enthusiast on a budget, not a technician. Over the years, my cars have been a '70 Duster while in college, a '70 Charger RT SE, a '72 Satellite Sebring (with 440/727/3.23), and now this '73.
- I don't care about gas mileage or the penalty of using premium fuel.
- Might I change the carb in the future? Of course, but let me run with what I have already have. 'Bag of cats', love it.
 
Sorry to add to the scratching IQ...lol
I built exactly one quench engine with factory heads. To get it usable and effective, one has to do a LOT to make the distances right. Not close. Not almost right. But RIGHT. It's a huge waste of effort and money. Buy heads with a closed chamber, or build with a compression ratio in mind and spend on a cam to work with what you got. "Must run .904 lifter type cams" crap and the belief that quench will work as good at .060 as it does at .035 is a sign of ignorance of perspective.
That being said - the post was about ideas, and the OP has them, plus his own M3 in his pocket so "let the man work".
 
moper said:
Sorry to add to the scratching IQ...lol
I built exactly one quench engine with factory heads. To get it usable and effective, one has to do a LOT to make the distances right. Not close. Not almost right. But RIGHT. It's a huge waste of effort and money. Buy heads with a closed chamber, or build with a compression ratio in mind and spend on a cam to work with what you got. "Must run .904 lifter type cams" crap and the belief that quench will work as good at .060 as it does at .035 is a sign of ignorance of perspective.
That being said - the post was about ideas, and the OP has them, plus his own M3 in his pocket so "let the man work".
Click to expand...

Thanks, Moper. Exactly. From what I've gleaned from the multiple comments, go for a piston that will provide 9-9.5:1 CR with these heads. Sounds like good advice to me. BTW, here's a pic of the cam card.

IMG_0010.JPG
 
If starting from scratch for your cruiser, I'd personally go a step smaller, but IMHO it will not be far off. I'd probably install at ICL = 105 or 106. Just make sure that you do accurately time the cam.

A settable cam timing chain set is a cheap way to avoid a retarded cam timing setup; one of the best investments in a budget build. Another inexpensive way to change cam timing is with offset cam sprocket keys.
 
When you get the 340 out, post up the block VIN near the oil pan rail. Might be a missing engine for a 340 car out there somewhere.
 
rt-man said:
So, the '72 340 I bought for my '73 Satellite was torn down and found to have significant scoring in the bores due to it sitting around for years. Condensation took that puppy down.

So, my mechanic buddy has an LA 360 block and crank that's been sitting in an oiled bag since 2010. Bored .030 over; I imagine its a cast crank. Line bored, from what he recalls. He's going to examine the cylinders this weekend.

I'd like your opinions on this BUDGET build. Some parts are coming off the 340. Going in a heavy car ('73 SSP), cruiser, 904 with shift kit, 2,000 rpm stall converter, 3.55SG. 318/360 Performer intake, '69 HP exh manifolds, Summit 600cfm vacuum sec carb.

- Hughes cam, 220/224 duration at .050
- Domed hypereutectic pistons, looking for 10.0 CR or better. New rings.
- new oil pan, new main bearings. 360 harmonic balancer and flexplate for the 904
- reuse the accessories, timing chain, etc.

I may be forgetting something, but I don't think so. Keep in mind, its a budget build and I'm not going racing...but would like to smile when I put my foot into it.

Thanks.View attachment 1715206120 View attachment 1715206121
Click to expand...
 
rt-man said:
So, the '72 340 I bought for my '73 Satellite was torn down and found to have significant scoring in the bores due to it sitting around for years. Condensation took that puppy down.

So, my mechanic buddy has an LA 360 block and crank that's been sitting in an oiled bag since 2010. Bored .030 over; I imagine its a cast crank. Line bored, from what he recalls. He's going to examine the cylinders this weekend.

I'd like your opinions on this BUDGET build. Some parts are coming off the 340. Going in a heavy car ('73 SSP), cruiser, 904 with shift kit, 2,000 rpm stall converter, 3.55SG. 318/360 Performer intake, '69 HP exh manifolds, Summit 600cfm vacuum sec carb.

- Hughes cam, 220/224 duration at .050
- Domed hypereutectic pistons, looking for 10.0 CR or better. New rings.
- new oil pan, new main bearings. 360 harmonic balancer and flexplate for the 904
- reuse the accessories, timing chain, etc.

I may be forgetting something, but I don't think so. Keep in mind, its a budget build and I'm not going racing...but would like to smile when I put my foot into it.

Thanks.View attachment 1715206120 View attachment 1715206121
Click to expand...

MAKE SURE the 904 is built to take the pressure of an above stock engine in a med weight car.
 
why swap the guts..the 998/999 bolts up to any small block.....besides you can easily put 5 clutch disc in the regular 904 drum.....i got at least 4 904s like that....
 
Right
I did the swap into an AMC case in my PACER
my daughter was burning up reverse bands backing uphill when cold
999 band fixed as well as tuning up the shift kit
I wish now I had put in a lock up pump/ converter
but I have a Jeep OD TF and one of the ASIAN Warner Jeep OD 4 speeds- have to decide and rebuild one of them
I have a 4.0 MPFI take out and a 258 crank- too many projects so the 258 2bbl lives for a while longer- 30 years so far with no major work- tough motor
I have a 73 401 AMC with either TF or Jeep THM 400 but wife will not let that happen to her baby
Actually I like the AMC better than the LA - would have to think about comparing with the 360 MAgnum AMC heads may still be better
 
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