Steering wheel clocked way off after new box install

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danielreinard

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Hi all,

I just had a new front end put on the 71 Duster (with 73 disc brake swap). A shop did the install and when I got the car back the steering wheel was clocked about 100 degrees off. My question is how can it be clocked back properly? The shop said they only replaced the manual box without removing the coupler from the column shaft, and that they pulled the Grant Tuff wheel off to try to clock it but it is keyed only one way. My car also appears to have the OE style rimblow adapter.

What was replaced was the manual box with a Firm Feel manual box (factory ratio), all tie rods,, pitman, idler, ball joints, Firm Feel upper A-arms, shocks. They claim nothing is adjustable to get the wheel center. Are the Grant Tuff wheels and OE rimblows not clockable? And/or is the coupler to column shaft not clockable?

I don't mind getting a nicer Grand wheel and the #3314 adapter if that's what it takes to get it right. Are the #3314 adapter kits clockable or keyed only one way as they claim the wheel in the car is?

I appreciate the help in advance. I could talk to Grant or Firm Feel all day but you guys would know best.
 
pittman arm can be clocked off...

also the steering box might have not been centered also....manual are usualy 5 turns total...you have to center it with the key way facing up...

plus the tie rod should be centered..where they are they same length....
 
Any decent alignment shop will know how to center the steering wheel. It may require a little trial & error when a bunch of new parts are installed. If they say they can't do it, they don't really know what they are doing.
 
Thanks guys. I went to a muscle car only shop so it baffles me why they sent the car out like that. Needless to say I was pissed and disappointed. I take it back on Tuesday. In the mean time I'll have the ducks in a row to tell them what they did, or didn't do.

I'll measure the tie rods, lock to lock symmetry, and check the box. When you say the key way do you mean the dowl or the master spline on the splined shaft? I thought the pitmans were splined only a certain way too? I'll have to grab the old one and see.
 
I think the pitman is master splined to 4 positions meaning 90 degrees off.
If all else fails, filling the master spline away at the steering wheel takes about 5 minutes.
 
Ive filed most of mine, saves going to front end shop, and I love a strait wheel.
 
RedFish said:
I think the pitman is master splined to 4 positions meaning 90 degrees off.
If all else fails, filling the master spline away at the steering wheel takes about 5 minutes.
Click to expand...

I was working on a similar issue last night. Both the manual box and the PS box are splined on 4 sides. so it is easy to put the pitman arm on 90% off. if that is the case, then the ONLY way to fix it and still be able to steer equally left and right is to pull the pitman arm, center up the steering and the steering box shaft, and put the pitman arm back on. Use a pitman arm puller, don't beat on it.
 
danielreinard said:
Thanks guys. I went to a muscle car only shop so it baffles me why they sent the car out like that. Needless to say I was pissed and disappointed. I take it back on Tuesday. In the mean time I'll have the ducks in a row to tell them what they did, or didn't do.

I'll measure the tie rods, lock to lock symmetry, and check the box. When you say the key way do you mean the dowl or the master spline on the splined shaft? I thought the pitmans were splined only a certain way too? I'll have to grab the old one and see.
Click to expand...

The steps are as follows

1......First center the box by counting turns. Ignore where the steering wheel points and ignore where the front wheels point. "Box center" should only be off by a few degrees, according to how you estimated the fractional turns, perhaps 1/8 of a turn

2......Examine the pitman and see if it points "straight" ahead/ back that is the tapered stud in line with the shaft front / rear.

If not, I don't know if anything could be wrong inside the box, that is between you and the rebuilder. You might check that someone ELSE has not removed the spline key so that the arm can be installed "some other way." Otherwise, it should either be "correct" or off by 90 degees

3......If the above is correct and or you get this fixed, look at the steering wheel. It should be either centered, or 180 degrees. (Upside down). This is because the coupler can be put together 1/2 turn off

Once you get all the above "correct" then you "walk" the tire rod end adjusters so that toe stays where you want, and the wheel is centered.

If everything is "factory correct" you can only make so many mistakes, IE

The coupler can make the wheel 1/2 turn off

You can install the pitman 1/4 turn off either way

The tie rod ends can be unequal, skewing the wheel off center with the wheels off center.
 
I recently put a Grant wheel on my 70 Duster. Although the wheel went on the adapter one way, the adapter wasn't clocked to the steering shaft. You could adjust it one spline at a time. Took a little trial and error to have the front wheels straight, put the adapter on correctly then the steering wheel. If all the steering checks out as the previous posts described you may want to check this.
 
Did you check the steering gear for far left and far right, then go for the center before installing the pitman arm?
 
Thanks again fellas. I got to the car today and checked all this stuff out. Here are the findings:

I moved the wheel lock to lock and found the general center of the box. Depending on if I start from the left or right then move 2.5 turns the centers are off by 1/4 turn or so. But basically that puts the wheel upside down.

I checked the pitman arm and it appears installed correctly. If I look at the nut where it goes to the box then the nut to the center link, it looks like the pitman points straight toward the back of the car. I looked at the nuts since the pitman itself is shaped like a C.

I measured the tie rod assemblies for left and right the drivers side is maybe 3/8" longer. I also counted the threads showing where they go into the solid one piece sleeves. The drives side had 9 threads showing on both inner and out tie rod. The passenger side had 5 threads showing on both inner and out rods. I feel like the issue is the tie rod lengths. So as it is the wheels will point to the left and that's why I have to turn the steering wheel 100 degrees to the right to point them straight. Does that sound like the issue?

Depending on how the shop responds to the input when I bring the car back on Tuesday I may just get a new Grant wheel and adapter. The wheel isn't off much and it's old and cracked anyways.
 
Sounds like that's where the adjustment needs to be made. L & R tie rods should be roughly the same length.
 
danielreinard said:
Depending on if I start from the left or right then move 2.5 turns the centers are off by 1/4 turn or so. But basically that puts the wheel upside down...................................
Click to expand...

So far so good. Assuming the steering wheel is originally "as clocked" that is it has the original keys in the box splines and the matching coupler, and at the wheel and top of the shaft, what is going on here is the coupler is assembled internally 1/2 turn off. In other words take the coupler apart and put it together so the shaft and shoes go into the coupler body I/2 turn off

danielreinard said:
Depending on how the shop responds to the input when I bring the car back on Tuesday I may just get a new Grant wheel and adapter. The wheel isn't off much and it's old and cracked anyways.
Click to expand...

I may be misunderstanding. Do NOT fix this by reclocking the wheel. You want the "bottom end" correct first. That is you want the steering box centered when the wheels are straight, and you want to find out why the wheels are not straight with the box centered (if they are not) This is because there's a "tight spot" so to speak by design, at the box center.

Unless, somehow, something was broken, bent, or wrong parts installed, these things are not "magic." That is, when everything is "right" ---it works as advertised.
 
Ok that makes sense. I'll make them do as I did to find the box center, readjust the tie rods to match the tires to the box, then flip the couple 180 to get the wheel right side up.
 
not to jack the thread or anything but i had something similar happen. i replaced the power box with a manual box and also the pitman arm idler arm and new tie rods and tie rod ends. i took the old tie rods out and made the new ones approx the same size put the new box in and id only get like 3 turns to the left from center and 2 turns to the right, i took everything apart and checked again put it all back together and same deal so the only way i could get equal turns both ways was to make one tie rod really short and the other very long i dont care much how the steering wheel looks but i am worried about having two tie rods so different in length. does anyone know what to do? the box by the way is supposedly from a feather duster and is alluminum and i have a 72 duster
 
Lets hope the coupling lands correct and doesn't need flipped 180. To flip it requires taking it apart. If they screw up its "bottle cap" it wont stay in place again.
 
if the tires are off front to rear, it's just a simple adjustment of the tie rods to get it in. lt's called Toe-in. You want to get it so the tires are straight front to rear when it's down on it's own weight and the ride height has been set.


Set the ride height by adjusting the torsion bar adjusting screws in the lower control arm until you get the front end height where you like it. Set it down and shake the front end up and down a few times before you evaluate each adjustment.

Once ride height is set, then get the tow in (front to rear alignment of the tires). Loosen the lock nuts on the tie rod sleeves and twist the sleeve until each tire is straight from front to rear.

Then take it to an alignment shop to get the camber-caster- and final toe in set.
 
UDUST81 said:
not to jack the thread or anything but i had something similar happen. i replaced the power box with a manual box and also the pitman arm idler arm and new tie rods and tie rod ends. i took the old tie rods out and made the new ones approx the same size put the new box in and id only get like 3 turns to the left from center and 2 turns to the right, i took everything apart and checked again put it all back together and same deal so the only way i could get equal turns both ways was to make one tie rod really short and the other very long i dont care much how the steering wheel looks but i am worried about having two tie rods so different in length. does anyone know what to do? the box by the way is supposedly from a feather duster and is alluminum and i have a 72 duster
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Find the center of travel for your steering box, as I described in one of my posts above.

Then line everything up to center from there.

You may not be able to keep the equal number of threads showing on your tie rods for each side. You need your alignment to be straight and centered with the center of travel of the steering wheel/gearbox.
 
krazykuda said:
Find the center of travel for your steering box, as I described in one of my posts above.

Then line everything up to center from there.

You may not be able to keep the equal number of threads showing on your tie rods for each side. You need your alignment to be straight and centered with the center of travel of the steering wheel/gearbox.
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the main problem is the tie rods are not a few threads off theyre both almost to the end of their adjustment one very long and the other very short. thats the only way the wheels will sit straight at the center of travel in the steering box. do you think there could be something wrong internally in the box?
 
I don't think there's a problem in the gear box. easy way to find out thought... turn the steering wheel to straight up and see if the pitman is 90 degrees off. In this position tou could also see the roll pin at the coupler in vertical position, on the engine side of the shaft.
 
RedFish said:
Lets hope the coupling lands correct and doesn't need flipped 180. To flip it requires taking it apart. If they screw up its "bottle cap" it wont stay in place again.
Click to expand...

Ok. Ya I hope that evening out the tie rods will cure everything. There are 8 extra threads showing on the drivers side. I know they won't be perfect but I think that's enough to throw the wheel off.
 
UDUST81 said:
the main problem is the tie rods are not a few threads off theyre both almost to the end of their adjustment one very long and the other very short. thats the only way the wheels will sit straight at the center of travel in the steering box. do you think there could be something wrong internally in the box?
Click to expand...
Almost sounds like the box case is physically wrong or it is shimmed sideways off of the subframe, or something is bent in that area. Is the box mounted flush up against its mounting surface?

Question to check something: Did you establish the box center turns to each end of the box's range with the steering linkage disconnected? That is the way it should be done, with the steering linkage off. If you find the center with the linkage all connected, then the steering stops out at the ends can throw off the # of steering box turns left and right. (These stops are designed to be more restrictive to keep the driver from jamming the box to it's stops.) A better way to confirm the steering box center is to tighten up the top adjustment on the box (try 1/4 turn and then 1/2 turn and so on 'til you can feel the center turning resistance) until you can feel the tightness at the center and use that peak turning resistance to determine the box center; afterwards, return the setting to how you found it originally.

If you do have the true center, then make a call to FirmFeel to quiz them about this and the box's center. Did you get the new pitman arm from them?

BTW, I can't see how the pitman arm can get clocked off 90 degrees; if it could, it would never return to straight ahead or only do so at one far end of the box's range.
 
I just fixed Dads cuda, his steering wheel was off 90* to the right. Basically the top of the steering wheel was at 3 oclock in order to travel down the road straight. In other words when the steering wheel was centered the car was driving to the left. I jacked up drivers side and adjusted the tie rod adjusters 2 turns in...dropped the car down and brought the drivers side out 2 turns. After that it was pretty darned close.
Might be a little difficult for me to describe here, but my redneck way to check was to lay a level along the side of each tire about 3" off the ground and up against the outside of the tire, that way the level is running front to back. I made sure the steering wheel was centered and measured the distance between the 2 front tires from in front of them and behind. Hope this helps.

krazykuda said:
if the tires are off front to rear, it's just a simple adjustment of the tie rods to get it in. lt's called Toe-in. You want to get it so the tires are straight front to rear when it's down on it's own weight and the ride height has been set.


Set the ride height by adjusting the torsion bar adjusting screws in the lower control arm until you get the front end height where you like it. Set it down and shake the front end up and down a few times before you evaluate each adjustment.

Once ride height is set, then get the tow in (front to rear alignment of the tires). Loosen the lock nuts on the tie rod sleeves and twist the sleeve until each tire is straight from front to rear.

Then take it to an alignment shop to get the camber-caster- and final toe in set.
Click to expand...
 
4spdragtop said:
I just fixed Dads cuda, his steering wheel was off 90* to the right. Basically the top of the steering wheel was at 3 oclock in order to travel down the road straight. In other words when the steering wheel was centered the car was driving to the left. I jacked up drivers side and adjusted the tie rod adjusters 2 turns in...dropped the car down and brought the drivers side out 2 turns. After that it was pretty darned close.
Click to expand...

Perfect. On mine the drivers side is 4 turns out more than the passengers (9 threads vs 5 threads). So two in and two out makes them practically even. It should put that wheel where it needs to be if 2 turns moved your wheel 90 degrees.

This is what we will tell the shop to do. We also ordered up a new wheel for when after things get put in place. What better way to finish a new front end off than with a new wheel.
 
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