Two Times Can't be a Coincidence...Dart not Firing

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I had a problem like yours on a chevy once, replaced abounch of stuff nothing helped, acted like it would run out of fuel, got pissed off and took off the new fuel pump and the dang spring was broke, it was hit and miss, sometimes it would move the lever enough to pump and other times not. "maybe why your filter was empty" might be worth a look
 
Maybe it's because since I am trying to restart the car that the fuel goes back through the line that I end up flooding it when I do crank it and pump it? I don't pump the gas every single time I try to crank it to try and not flood it. But there is still fuel in the bowl of the carb, I saw it pump out even with the fuel line empty. No doubt that's a problem, for sure. Is it /the/ problem though? I have tried cranking it with wide open for 5-8 seconds with not even a hiccup. I do wonder how long it's been going on, I've never noticed it before since I never had any problems. I'll try to warm it up fully today and open up the hood. Not going anywhere but around the neighborhood though!

Question: Do ECU modules go out intermittently like this? I feel like I have it grounded good, it's screwed onto the firewall where the paint has been ground off to bare metal. It's only been running for a few weeks, but I don't doubt a lemon. I hear the parts store can test these? Also feel I should mention that the little screw that goes in the center of the wiring harness when it connects to the ECU is missing; it never seemed to tighten up at all so we just tossed it.

EDIT: ECU checks good. Smelled maybe a little gassy smell from the oil, but it does not look diluted. Wondering if the fuel pump is to blame here, letting the fuel drain back. But it does not start even when my foot is down on the floor cranking.
 
Since the engine runs good sometimes, it isn't a problem with your engine. Even with very worn rings, engines can still idle and run fine, they just pour out blue smoke under acceleration. Two things you need for testing are "starter fluid" (spray can, ether-based, even discount stores carry it) and an in-line spark tester ($4 on sale at Harbor Freight). That will help you resolve whether a fuel or spark problem. A multimeter (free w/ coupon at HF) would also be nice useful, to insure you have power to the coil+ terminal. The jiggling with the shifter the helper did was to overcome a "neutral safety switch" not letting the starter crank, which doesn't sound like your problem. If there was any effect he did in the cabin, it might have been from also jiggling a bad key switch or the harness to the bulkhead.

Long ago, I helped a girl with a ~1990 Jetta (pretty new then) that wouldn't start. One mechanic at the picnic swore it must be a broken timing belt. I sprayed starter fluid (always carry it) in the intake and it started instantly and idled fine as long as I kept giving a quick shot every 2 sec. The girl wondered why she couldn't drive home like that (w/ me under the hood?). Her electric fuel pump had failed. Another time, my 65 Newport died. Rather than run down the battery and strand us, I installed the spark tester (always carry one) inline w/ #1 spark plug. I saw no spark when cranking, so swapped in the spare Crane Cams XR700 box I always carry and it fired right up. I even drove home w/ the spark tester in-line since no need risking a no-start and upsetting the wife even more ("told you not to drive that old car to church"). Not that her favored 2002 T&C hasn't randomly died many times until I fixed it (something in the harness, not sure exactly how I fixed it).
 
When the car won't start, try connecting a wire with alligator clips at both ends from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal of the coil primary, just to rule out the possibility that the coil is not getting power. Don't let the coil operate at full battery voltage for any length of time.
 
Bill Crowell said:
... try connecting a wire with alligator clips at both ends from the positive battery terminal to the positive terminal of the coil primary, just to rule out the possibility that the coil is not getting power. Don't let the coil operate at full battery voltage for any length of time.
Click to expand...
Always a good check. I had to do that to drive my 64 Valiant home after buying it. The key switch wiring was gomer'ed up, w/ individual spade lugs falling off. It still had points. I first ran a wire straight from BAT+ to coil+. It started and ran fine, but after ~5 minutes starting missing bad as I tried accelerating past 40 mph. The coil was too hot to touch and smelled of melting paint. I then jumpered thru the ballast resistor and no more problems. When cranking, the ballast is similarly bypassed, but you can't run long that way.
 
Now my slant isn't even trying to start up at all.

-BATT to +Coil = 5.5-5.7V

-BAT to -Coil = 1V

-BATT to +BATT = 12V

-BATT to Left side Ballast = 10V

-BATT to Right Side Ballast = 5.8 V

CRANKING:

-BATT to +Coil = 5.5 V (??)

-Batt to -Coil = 1 V

-BATT to Right side Ballast = 5.5 V

-BATT to left side Ballast = 9V (??)

Something is going awry. I have replaced coil to no change. Tried bypassing the key starter with a remote, nope. Tried jump-starting battery, nothing. Tried holding foot down to the floor, nope. I'm not even getting any hint of a spark here either remote or with key. I have triple checked all my connections, but obviously something isn't going right.

I do not have any alligator clips, but maybe I could get some real quick to see if it fires up that way.
 
No start, no spark even when +coil is jumped to +BATT. Although if I were to touch the end of my wire from the +BAtt and remove it real quick, it would produce a dull orange spark and cause the engine to shudder, like it was being bumped my the starter. I'm going to be checking my bulkhead now, so some guidance there would be very much appreciated.
 
Ignition problem's make you a zero or a hero. I found myself with much the same problem after installing the engine that I just rebuilt in my 78 Dodge PU. To make a long story short the problem was I forgot to hook up the ground strap going to the fire wall to the back of a cylinder head. Reinstalled the strap never to have that problem again.
69 340 Dart
 
I finally found the problem...I'm pretty sure. The engine finally died, and I just figured I'd swap the module just to see. The second I got it all bolted down, I started it up immediately. I'm driving it around and it's starting up fine. WTH, the thing I bought 2 weeks ago and tested good at the parts store failed on me. Looks like I'm in the market for HEI or at the very least, a decent module!
 
I thought you had already swapped that? You are just now getting to swapping the one you ordered? Or u got a bad one out of the box initially?
 
I never swapped modules. I swapped out ballast resistors from a spare I had, the coil, and I replaced the mag. pickup in the distributor. I figured since the module I had was only two weeks old and tested good on the part store's little tester thing, I figured it couldn't have been the problem. Then I only suspected it when not even jumping the coil to the battery could turn it over. Must have been an especially crappy module right out of the box.
 
It was a NAPA Echlin, yeah, lol. Gotta get another paycheck to get somethin' else, but definitely gonna try and to replace it ASAP.
 
Many times it isn't the ECU itself, but a bad ground connection. The factory relied on just a sheet metal screw into the firewall, which usually worked OK for 10 years or so. Replacing the ECU often cleans up that connection temporarily. To do better, run a dedicated ground wire to the case.
 
I thought it was a bad ground connection. So I ground off another new spots for the screws and this time added star lock washers to hopefully improve the connection. I also ran a test 'ground' wire from the ECU to the negative battery. No suck luck until I replaced it. Definitely am going to be adding a ground strap, just need to get something better than cheesy Walmart crimp connectors. Is there any gauge of wire that is recommended?
 
Is there any gauge of wire that is recommended?
Click to expand...
This would be a low amp. connection, so 16 AWG should be good. If it were me, I would use a ground strap like this, It will look more factory. Over kill on size tho
aaf-all76330_ml.jpg
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all76330?seid=srese1&gclid=CPS-gZ-V7MoCFRCOaQodvPkJ7Q
 
I agree w/ making wiring purty. Nothing uglier than an engine bay with gomer'ed wiring. Cars in those days were particularly shoddy in grounding. My early A's ground the headlamp filaments via a sheet-metal screw behind the bulb, which surely caused problems. By the 1970's, they ran a ground wire back. Besides customer fussing, the switch to plastic body parts mandated dedicated ground wires, which helped greatly. My 80's M-B cars have special welded ground studs throughout the car, with every component having a ground wire to a stud. My 90's Mopar has similar in the engine bay. Any changes like that you make will be an improvement.
 
Thanks Mopar Tim, that looks better and cheaper than what I can probably make after running to get better connectors, lol.

After going to a Mopar club today, one of the members gave me an older ECU unit; says 'Made in USA', is grey in color, and the plug connector is black. I'll have to test it out to see if it still works. If it does, it'll be a good spare or even replacement for the time being. Would like to switch to HEI, maybe even to Trailbeasts' HEI kit, but for now it's running and I'm happy.

Thanks for all the help, I love this site for being a wealth of knowledge.
 
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